I feel safer with my cage, eliminated the back seat, sank the driver's seat a little, and I strongly believe that it is one of the most important handling improvements available. A stiff chassis will free the suspension up to do its job better. Last winter, I cut the passenger side door bar out.

Having been in a big wreck, I can tell you that even the factory dash pad can kill you a lot.

I just ordered a 6 point for my Z28 convert. I am interested to see what it is like inside the car with the forward bars. I'm contemplating cutting off the forward bars and just running it as a 4 point.

I wanted good belts, side protection (after my wife witnessed a fatality) and chassis improvements.

I am wanting to put harnesses in my car, but don't want a rollbar since my daughter is 3(going on 23) and she loves to ride with my wife and I. So, I have somewhat designed a "hoop system" to go behind the front seats to allow harnesses but not have a full rollbar or crossbar. It would definately have to be padded someway..... Just something that popped in my head as an idea if someone thinking the same way as me.

you can have a simple rollbar/4 point and still use the back seat depending its design.or rig up a harness bar basicly goes across the top of the front seats to mount the top part of your harness to.

Hello:

I'm going to take the "Pro" side of this argument and see if I can argue "FOR" a Roll bar of some kind.

If you set the roll bar back 8 inches, put side bars in that were "shaped", more like the seat so you could get in and out easily, then ran a front hoop from the right front door hinges to the left hinges to form a cage.

Then finally, connected the two by a "Center" bar (Similar to a "T" top) wouldn't that give you a safer, more ridged car, and you could get in and out of it easier?

Hopefully this would minimize a head injury. The "T-top", Trans Ams of the 70's basically had this same arrangement and I don't remember hearing about head injuries relating to this design.

If you are a big person your head is close to the headliner. If you feel the roof through the headliner, there are still metal reinforcements protruding out from the top sheet metal for seat belt hook ups, dome light ect. and I haven't hear those inflict head injuries.

Would the bar across the top being Flat and padded help the situation?

The Porsche 911 Targa's had this or a similar arrangement and it also seemed ok. The Fiat X-19's were the same way.

Remember ALL these cars had at most a 3-Point Seat Belt at best and were safe for ALL sized drivers on the street without a helmut.

The Fooze 69 Camaro also has a 4 point. If they were truly dangerous I'd be shocked if they would put them in their cars as well. They all have a lot of money to lose if these items were considered "Negligent", by the insurance companies.

I look for to your replies.

Best Regards,

Ty

Another question:

What is the correct height to run the cross bar where the harnesses are attached? (Based on the Shoulder height of the drivers)

Thanks,

Ty

Can anyone take a stab at these questions?

TY

Correct placement for the shoulder harness bar is just below shoulder height. The "T-top" bar is an unnecessary addition to the main hoop and halo, in my opinion. A bit reduntant unless it is placed at a diagonal. The cage decision is very subjective. I can see both sides of the argument. If you favor a cage, but have concerns, the best route is to find a fabricator who will patiently custom bend each bar for maximum driver/passenger clearance and eliminate the back seat. Some money can be saved by starting with an off-the-shelf kit and then add/remove/modify bars on an individual basis.

-Don't place the A-Pillar bars behind the dash--go through the top of the dash.
-Don't put a knee bar in a street car. If a tie bar for the A-pillar bars is a must, put it far under the dash near the firewall/cowl.
-Don't have the cage built until any and all interior components are present during mock-up. (Seats, belts, AC, door panels, mirror, etc.) If you will be doing underhood down bars, then all interference components must be present as well (i.e. hood hinges, wheelhouses, master cylinder/booster, etc.)
-Don't forget to bring a list of other small fabrication tasks such as a battery mount, fuel cell mount or other simple brackets.
-Don't forget to leave clearance to facilitate working on the interior. That cage will be in the way. For example, I have door sill bars that connect the A-pillar bars to the main hoop. The door sill bars interfere with seat hardware installation and removal. If the bars were just 1/2" higher, I wouldn't have this problem. Since I take my car apart every winter, I must fight this little boo boo twice per year. The ensuing tantrum is fun to watch.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

John