E-mails sent......but no reply

I got ya Steve, I thought I replied when I moved you into my FAST folder.

We will start invoicing when we get a couple more. Were at 5 right now, I have a couple others I am expecting to jump in. When we get 8 I am ordering.

The powerjection 3 will handle the boost and is made in the USA. Fast copied it and is trying to out advertize it but the Powerjection is the best bang for the buck period.

Also Pro Products just recieved their Patent on this system. Fast is a good company but i think everyone is brain washed and afraid to step outside the box. As of today there are over 1000 sucessfull installs on the power3. That must count for something. Also you can buy it cheaper without having to get 10 buddies to chip in.

They are still only capped at 550hp so boost wouldnt really matter at that power level.

I think Retrotek made it and FAST copied it, Its good for boosted apps too

I have been thinking about going to an EFI fuel tank with an in-tank pump instead of the external pump that comes with the kit. Any thoughts on going that direction?

I'd only have one comment about an internal pump vs external ---- the FACTORIES use an INTERNAL pump... and they work for lots and lots of miles... RIGHT?
:thumbsup:

How does this system work with a stock fuel tank?

any EFI system needs an uninterrupted fuel source, so any air sucked into the pump is an immediate "hiccup" with efi, vs a carb that has a fuel bowl to cover up such issues.

It will work with a stock tank but will have issues when the tank gets to lower levels.

Jody

That is what I was concerned about. I would think that there would have been a solution thought of with the kit.

The "solution" is to install a sump in your tank - or switch to a tank with a sump.

I have an Accel Gen 7 system... and my tank is a Rock Valley SS 25 gallon custom version I had built... BUT at the time I was running a carb...

When I switched to EFI I put a bung in the bottom of the tank... and you'll get a good laugh at this - I put it at the FRONT of the tank and it should have been at the BACK of the tank (you can coast downhill but need fuel to go up a hill... right?). So I pulled the tank, YESTERDAY, as a matter of fact - to install a sump at the REAR where it should be and I should have done this 5 years ago. I've been very careful to not run the tank below about HALF so that I don't suck air.. or if I head up a steep grade - I don't uncover the pickup point in a low fuel situation. DUMB of me... but I'm fixing that now.

THE EZ EFI is assuming you're going to use the stock factory fuel tank - and it has a draw from the bottom of the tank (like a straw in a glass)... and you add a return 'port' (thru the sender which can be taken out of the tank cleaned and welded on or drilled etc). Their kit has an IN LINE fuel pump and filter... but you're going to have to plumb in a return line. THE RETROTEK/PROJECTION system uses a pump controller - and is returnless... because they just crank down the pressure when idling etc...

The butterflies measure 1 3/4" which is pretty large, 1 11/16" is pretty common on a Holley carb around 750 = 800. There are no venturi's or boosters so I think the throttle body flows air pretty well when compared to an average carb. Inglese uses this system in a Weber carb look-alike system using 8 injectors. I would think you could use the current air valve and add 8 injectors to a carb type intake and get more even fuel distribution. You can also run dual throttle bodies on a tunnel ram or cross ram.

We've been using the EzEFI for a couple of weeks and the only issue has been a little rough running until warm. There are no cold start or cold running tuning options for this system, so the only option to fool with is the target idle air fuel ratio.

By rough running, I mean after a cold night you can reach in and start the car, it runs a little rough and can die once or twice, then keeps running and get's smoother once warmed up. When warm there are no issues at all.

Things I'm trying are different target air fuel for idle, and higher idle speed setting. I also did not connect the power wires to the battery as the instructions said to do in bold print, I moved them and it got better. They say to observe TPS volts at idle and if you see any variation, it indicates interference perhaps from the power supply connections if not connected directly to battery. I connected to the power junction right next to the battery on the radiator support, did not see any variation of TPS signal, but DID see a flicker on the rpm signal. I also moved the tach wires as far away from the spark plug wires as possible.

Here's a video I did of cold startup.

David ---

RE: Video making

Don't quit your day job! :rofl: :rofl:

What is your idle speed? The video makes it sound really "high" and I'm sure it's not.

I just ordered the EZ EFI ECM with harness etc for my Nomad... I'm switching it over from the Accel Gen 7. I'm running an 8 stack EFI from Imagine Injection and they (Fast) are now selling this set up separate from Inglese -- so you can use any manifold... It should be interesting. I've always been pretty happy with the Accel... with the exception of their poorly constructed Dual Sync distributor. But mostly I just like the fact that this system is pretty hands off... and trust me when I tell you -- I've spent about a bazillion dollars on "tuners" -- each guy thinking the other was an idiot... and I'm real tired of that whole "mess". 10 years of that... I'm done. Let the computer do the talking!

Hi David,
What are you using for ignition components?

Greg, do you think welding in a sump to our stock first gen tank is adequate? I know it'll be 'covered' more often than the factory pick-up, but would it still uncover under normal aggressive street driving/cornering at speed with less than a quarter tank?

I can't decide what to do. I want to run EFI, but I have heard that on the Spectra tanks the sender is in the return sump so it always shows a half tank of fuel until all of the sudden you run out! :willy:

There is a large gas tank repair shop here in town that would weld in a sump and seal my tank. I wonder if they could weld in some baffles on either side of the sump to keep fuel in that area under cornering.

Well -- let's first establish that I am no "expert" on this - or any other subject for the matter... LOL

A "new" OEM factory EFI car uses an in-tank pump with a "sock" filter over the pickup tube - and they all have some fashion of a built in "sump". I was helping a buddy on his El Camino tank the other day - we were replacing the stock pump. This tank had a PLASTIC sump that oriented the sock and pickup tube. I was surprised at how shallow it was... maybe only an inch deep... and it sat in a baffled area in the bottom of the tank.

What I'm going to do is to ADD ON a sump -- after I cut some holes into the bottom of the existing tank (probably a series of half inchers) - so the fuel will fall into the sump area. So the sump will be a "wart" on the bottom of the tank. I will install weld in bung at the bottom REAR of this sump area for the fuel outlet. So if I build the sump 10" wide (side to side) and build it so that it is a triangle shape (looking at it from the side) tapering from the front area and getting deeper at the back -- figure I'll drop it 3 or so inches at the pickup point... BY THE WAY -- they sell a pre made sump like this at Summit Racing - but they're just steel - but poke around their site and you'll see what I'm making. I'll do mine custom (I like building stuff like this!) out of SS to match my tank...

NOW -- Second issue -- AERATION of the fuel from the return line.... this is B A D... You don't want to be creating a "fountain effect" in the fuel tank... and making pretty little bubbles... which will then get sucked up in the pump. Pumps like liquid and not air! LOL --- so I'd put the "return line" as your old abandoned pick up line... it should be inserted into the tank near the bottom... and thus = should be covered by fuel most all the time... and shooting the fuel at the bottom should keep if from causing this problem.

Place the SUMP/PICKUP area away from the "return" fuel.... most of the old stock tanks pick up fuel from the center area of the tank -- so if that's your return - then you add a sump at the very rear bottom of the tank - you should be golden.

Maybe some others will pick up on this thread and correct any - or add to any - info I'm providing.

That is helpful. I looked into the Competition Engineering sump (likely the one at Summit). They instruct to drill 5 2.5" holes allowing the fuel to drop. I've wondered if smaller holes would allow better retention of fuel in the sump. The sump is 3" deep at the rear, and spans 11" x 7" or so. I would think this is a large enough area to create a 'pool' in the bottom of the tank to keep the pickup covered most of the time. With 3" sides near the back, I would think it would hold enough for most situations on the street.

This sounds similar to what you'll be doing. I'd probably keep 1/4 tank of fuel in as much as possible, again, this is a street only car.

I would then turn my old pick-up into the return, and install a vent somehow.

This, of course, is if I pony up and buy the EFI in the first place:unibrow:

That type "sump" is exactly what I was discussing. I'm surprised at that large of a hole... but they may want them that large so that the fuel doesn't JUMP the holes as you go with side forces etc... too small of a whole and the fuel could just skip right over it.

I haven't researched that yet - and would do so BEFORE I start my mods. My original thought was to "fill" the area covered by the sump with .5 or .75 holes... so it'd look like swiss cheese but still have "some" structure. I have some very cool Hougen RotaCut Broaches from 5/16" up to 3"... and they'll eat stainless all day and make a perfect undistorted hole. So I can make the proper size and pattern for whatever is recommended.

You're on the right track... :thumbsup:

Greg,
Lots went wrong on that one, like the hood going closed, and I didn't zoom back enough to show the handheld controller, also got too far from the camera and it didn't pick up my voice when I was over by the car but I only got one chance to do it when the engine was cold so that's all you get! :lol:

Idle was at 800 because I had it at 750 and it was struggling when cold. I have started it up cold 2 or 3 times since this vid and it hasn't quit like it did in the video.

The car came to us with an HEI distributor crammed in against the firewall, they had to beat it in to make enough room. I like HEI's but don't like a dented in firewall. I can barely get the air cleaner on.
David

I'm going to use this one from Aeromotive in my Camaro, it sound like a good solution.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/AEI-18650/

That looks interesting. I read the instructions. They want you to mount it so the sides of the sump are 1/4" away from the top of the tank, then drill a 3/8" hole on either side of the sump, up 1/8" from the lowest point in the tank. They want the sender to be mounted away from the sump box so it doesn't interfere. The two 3/8" holes drilled in the sump are the secondary source of fuel, and the return (3rd bung on the sump) is the primary source of fuel to fill the sump. Seems like two 3/8" holes is a little small to me, but I'm no engineer.

For the first gens, not sure how well it would work unless it can be mounted far enough back to not interfere with the factory sending unit...or one can either offset mount the sump, or offset the sending unit as well. I guess if you're cutting a hole that big in the bottom, probably not that much more work to move the sender mounting ring on the topside as well.

One thing I didn't see mentioned was;

I returned my fuel back into the fuel fill tube. It unbolted from the tank, I welded a steel AN fitting and returned it back into the top of the stock tank.
Just like filling it up at the gas station. One thing for sure, you don't want to pickup fuel from one of those weld in sumps and return on the other side. We have had a ton of problems drag racing with the sump set up wrong this way getting air bubbles sucked into the fuel pump.

Now the supply, you need a better sump. On my stock 66 Nova wagon, I used the stock line to feed the engine and you can hear the pump pickup uncover when it gets below 1/4 tank and a hard corner but it still drives just fine. It's not a race car just a stock 283.

I personally saw a 572 GM crate engine on the Dyno at Fast that made 600hp give or take. They ran 60psi fuel pressure and it was correcting the fuel 30% at then end of the run. I am sure the next run it wouldn't have been so bad. They recommend the aeromotive pump upgrade above the 500hp. That is about all one of the walboro pumps are good for. No one here has talked about the Magnafuel pumps, they are about the best for electric pumps I believe.

As for Fast copying this, don't think so, this is just a dumbed down version of what they already have had for years. An EFI system that uses closed loop fuel to correct the VE table. Nothing new here. 4 Injectors in one throttle body? New? Accel has also had that for years too. Retrotek is new on the EFI scene, if anyone copied anyone it's them.

I know the Fast software engineer Lance has been working on this for at least 2 yrs, Fast contracted someone else to do the EZ EFI but weren't happy with what they got so Lance took what they had and rebuilt the software to work.

Now they are back to work improving the XFI software with new features.

I posted up a thread on the results of using the FAST EZ EFI Multiport harness and ECM on here...

My motor is a 406/408 - in reality it's a 407... LOL
8 Stack Imagine Injection
Inglese 8 stack intake with common plenum
Dart Pro 1 aluminum heads - 180cc
Forged crank with Honda rod journal
Crane - HYD roller - 230/236 - 112* LSA
36 pound injectors

Installed the FAST EZ EFI - and answered all the questions in the setup... set the TPS - Motor fired in nano seconds... and idled... I adjusted the butterflies using a manometer... and by the time I dialed those in - the motor was getting happier and happier... you could hear it learning and dialing in the VE's... Set the timing... she got happier... started to add some loading - and some rpms - held until we saw better A/F's... added some more rpms - watched and heard it learning... varied the rpms... every minute it's sounding better.... 35 minutes of this - and she's singing a sweet angry song... instant throttle response... time to make some upper rpms...
Add some load and boost the rpms up --- again you just hear it dialing in... god this is FUN I'm thinking.... okay -- 45 minutes or so into it.... we giving this SBC some load... and winging it into the 5000's.... A/F's getting better and better... right on target....

Stop - diddle with timing... adjust the idle better (lower)... check the cleanable oil filter... SWEET -- nothing there... oil and a little bit of shop rag... to be expected..... Time for some real fun.... Whop whop whop the thing really has insane throttle response.... Wing it to 6000.... NICE NUMBERS on the first pull.... wing it wing it - Load and pull.... better numbers... and the A/F's are spot on now.... a little lean at peak tq.... ALL STOP -- bump the fuel pressure.... 45#'s now... set total timing at 34*... Fires INSTANTLY - like a new car.... WOW! Idle is dead on... sounds nasty and crisp as hell... great compression and I'm really happy with the cam choice! Power pulls -- several in a row -- with some cooling time... and some messing with total timing... these pulls are overlaying one on top the other - steady linear power... Time to pull out some timing for "****z and giggles" I'm telling the dyno operator - I think she'll run better at 32 than 36... he disagrees with me - but it's my motor - we pull power at 36* then bump down to 32* -- it lays better torque and hp at 32* (chock one up for me)... they're gaining some respect... LOL --- I've done this dance more than a few times.... Anyway -- the net result of 550 TQ and 525.4 HP - with itty bitty 180 cc heads.. and a decent but not nasty cam.... I'm absolutely jacked to the moon with the FAST EZ EFI.... NEVER have I seen anything so dang EZ! This is a total winner in my book. :cheers: :cheers: :woot:

Ok you convinced me...haha

This was the best damn sales pitch ever...hahaha :bow:

Dave ---

Wasn't meant to be a sales pitch! But I can tell you -- after messing with EFI stuff for 10+ years now... this stuff is FANTASTIC. Honestly. A lot of EFI "messes" are newbie install issues... and some of the problems are "paying for the tuner to learn and go to school on your motor".

With this EZ EFI from FAST... it was so simple a caveman could do it. Not sure how a guy that can read - could mess it up. Half the wiring my Accel Gen 7 has/had.... Super easy instructions... and I'm running an 8 stack -- which is supposed to be "messy" to tune. I can tell you from experience -- it IS NOT messy to tune... and it's even easier using this new "self learning" system. The motor NEVER ran better... EVER. Once the throttle bodies were dialed in -- which took a few minutes to get them right on the money... it was all "sit back and watch and have fun".

The key is -- a good vacuum signal to the MAP sensor... (in other words -- no T's and nothing else running off that line!)... No header leaks (which introduce air causing the O2 sensor to read wrong).... Having a good fuel pump and pressure regulator. Good ground and power source to the ECM... no messing around here! They've got to be GOOD. AND #1 ---- a CLEAN tach signal. They recommend coming right off the MSD box Tach signal. Which is the way I ran it. Also -- DO NOT locate the ECM near/next to the MSD box! The signal can cause interference.

Fire it off -- and she'll start humming.

I have a Edelbrock Carb intake for my LS6 that I'm going to run in my '37 Ford... was going to just keep it super simple... NOW I'm going to run an 8 stack on that LS6 and this EZ EFI... :woot:

I deal with David Page at FAST quite a bit and we were talking about this out at SEMA last year when I was first looking at this system. He said they had him go in and set up an XFI system on the 572 and he spent about 4 hours getting everything setup and dialed in and pulled a solid number he was happy with. He went to lunch and they pulled off the XFI- stuck on an EZ EFI and in two pulls hit the same peak #s.

XFI has always had a "self tuning" feature. If you are centered in a cell on the VE table and hit L it will self adjust per your W02 reading vs your target air fuel. I've messed around with it a little bit but I've had better luck making manual adjustments. Apparently they've found a way to make it automatic.

I posted up in the other EZ EFI thread about the first one we are in process of doing and with the limited driving we've done so far I was really impressed with how fast it sorted out WOT. We're finishing up some suspension work on it right now but I'm planning putting some miles on it to see what it does for drivability. I'll let you guys know!

Here is an example of combining the EZ EFI with a Stroked LS Engine. Obviously it will support more than 550HP as advertised. These numbers were obtained after only a few dyno pulls for it to tune itself. After driving, it should get better. Can't wait to drive it!



Check out my build thread for more details!

Enjoy!

Very nice man....I am hoping for mid 500s....shoudl have no issue getting there with this set-up.

Dave

I wonder if they plan to make a EZ-EFI that would support 650+ HP??

I think they have a quad system option that addresses that.

Just got my EZ EfI today....ready to install now:D

You can probably get to 650 with one TB. Our engine in the video made 614 at only 43psi fuel pressure. You can go up from there. I think much past 650 and air will be a problem. The dual TB's are in order. :cheers:

Thanks Chad for the info!

Correct...supports up to 1000hp with dual quad option.
http://www.compperformancegroupstore...304155_600.jpg
*Dual Quad Upgrade Kit must be used in conjunction with an original FAST™ EZ-EFI® Self Tuning Fuel Injection Kit, part #30226-KIT or #30227-KIT.

• Easy-to-use setup Wizard provides comprehensive walk-through and system tunes itself

• Base EZ-EFI® System includes ECU, wide-band oxygen sensor, wiring harness, injectors, throttle body and optional fuel pump kit

• Dual Quad upgrade Kit includes second throttle body, injectors and linkage kit

• Bolts on to ANY engine up to 1000+ hp; ideal for hot rodders looking to increase fuel capacity

yep, and you can make it look like two carbs if you spend a little time hiding the harness............... ;)

Very nice Jody! :thumbsup:

So Jody -- being the old tuner boy that you are.... did you fire that dual quad bad boy up - and tell me how well it ran and how quickly it ran "well". IF you've fired it up yet.

Wished I'd have had time to see you when I stopped at Charleys the other day - it was rather spur of the moment - since I'd finished up with the real estate agent "early" so the stop was unplanned.

first thing I did when the car got here was to get it up and running before changing the wiring around. The car fires instantly, faster than any EFI combo I've ever been a part of. I can't say as far as driveability yet, but so far this system really works well.

Jody

Good to hear!

My Nomad fires before it can make a full revolution. Just instant like a new car.

They really seem to have a winner in this system!

Great looking motor Jody. Definitely like the positive feedback the Fast-EZ-EFI system is generating. :thumbsup: