It's that "While I'm here I might as well..."

The two main projects were the undercoating and the inner wheelhouses. The rest snowballed off of that. Hey, you should know all about the "snowball effect".. right? ;)

We took pics of all the settings and measurements of all the links and shocks. This will make reassembly a snap.

We might look into increasing the front shock extension like you suggested. Also, did you ever call John at AFCO?

And the extra power is all for you! lol

I don't know if it's "pretty" but it will be easier to clean. It's the WURTH stuff I used on the Fairlane and Track Rat. It's just black bumpy undercoat but it dries hard and you can wash it. The current Fusor stuff can't be washed and it's too soft and easily scuffs off.

The re-powdering is because David made a few changes to the rear and some areas have been cut and welded. The lower links have been chipped up from the rack arms hitting them. It just looks "un-tidy". I need to pull the stuff for the undercoat so might as well freshen it up.

"done" just isn't "fun".. lol

Yea, no mods for Penny.. I like the understated looks and OEM trim work. Several things changed my mind on the engine. I need more power for the road course and since it's not adding any weight it won't hurt on the autocross.

I will most likely sell the LS2 to help pay for the new stroker/sleeved LS3. That way I won't have to eat dog food to afford this. ;)

How much if I should ask?

Hey, there is a difference between what we do.

Our car isn't even at version 1.0 yet. On the other hand, there seems to be a new version of Penny out more often than there is a new version of Itunes. You make me look like an amateur, at least right now (I think). It is entirely possible that I worse than you. I might even be passed the snowball phase. I now work very hard on snowball containment. My mantra is more of "while I'm here, I might as well... Stop!" I'm just horrible at it though. Have you gotten to that point yet?

Steve, I am excited to see this build.
I have a LS7 with Darton sleeves. I am sure you will have yours running before me tho. It makes me feel good to see someone else doing this as well.
good luck:thumbsup:

Did you sleeve an LS7 block? I will be doing this to an LS3 block since it's stronger and less expensive.

Thanks

Yeah I bought the short block with them in it, Steve From Race Engine Development performed the machine work.

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-p...s2-engine.html
Steve, I also thought you might want to check this out.
I saw this over on corvetteforum.com

The best part about Steve's penny...is that we get to see the project change and evolve..new..exciting parts,and real track testing to back what the products do or say they will do.

So many cars get built...sold..and another comes along..I like the fact that Steve is changing his car,and exploring these new parts and idea's that make the project fun and fresh..for all of us to see at first hand.

Not that we all are not changing our cars too..just nice to see a top car go through its changes..with new parts, trial and new upgrades along the way.
And with Mr Pozzi doing his magic tuning, how can anybody go wrong!

As always Steve..great work!

:thumbsup:


-Jim

Nice project you've got going on here.

Is there a specific reason you went with billet uprights? You could save quite a bit of weight and end up with a stronger part by going with a sheet metal weldment.

suspension
 

Steve,

ton of questions here.
some of these are very exotic changes (zr-1 hubs) how do you know what to change, or is it just trial and error?
for instance in braking did you have data on your 60 to zero stops with the original set-up and tires? i.e what makes a bigger difference new calipers or switching to the michelins? (i.e. can the tires hold the brake torque)
Seems like your are trying to shed unsprung weight with the brake swap, and while lap times are obviously the goal, any sacrifice in streetability?

ever watch h2h on torque tv? They have had some great new vs. old comparisons at willow springs with a pro driver. Love to see penny vs. a new camaro or hpe camaro. Have you run penny there and if so, lap time?

more questions
 

Steve,

attached is my scale weight, very similar to penny's. I have about 25 lbs. more on the front end, almost entirely due to the front bumper/valance, but going to the r-model fiberglass bumper, not the look I wanted.

Anyway, on the autocross in steady state cornering, I have alot of understeer. The IRS I am running keeps the car so planted it just plows that front end around. I am planning on going to a slightly smaller rear tire, which will allow me to take some negative camber out (currently -3 degrees) and will also be better for dragstrip launches, and lower it another 1/2 inch.

I can't run bigger front tires (limited to 225/45/17), any other ideas/tips/tricks?

thanks

BTW.. the DTC-30 pads rocked at the event.. We had the second best 0-60-0 ... Considering we did better than Jackass we're pretty happy.

In fact we tied the GTR even though it had AWD and ABS.. of course we had stickier tires.

Anyways, pads seem like a good balance between track and street and especially good for short durration events.

A lot of trial and error.. some math. Sometimes we just know a part is better, like the ZR1 hubs, and move to them since every bit helps.

Tires make the biggest difference in stopping.. followed by pads.

I don't think I sacraficed any "streetability" by ditching the weight of the parking brake since it was never hooked up to begin with. lol -- saving all that rotating weight really helps the car get going quicker.

Sign me up for the H2H TV deal, I would love to see the results.

Well, these are stronger and I don't have to worry about a weld failure.. plus they are not that heavy. Another benefit was the upper ball joint and the fact that these add a full degree of camber gain. I also gained over an inch of shock travel.

Your front tires are most likely killing you.. what size are your rears?

Tomorrow we start ripping the car apart. The first thing to do is a story on swapping out the stock core support and AFCO radiator for a an aluminum one from AutoRad, along with thier HUGE crossflow radiator... We will also be transitioning to a air based Setrab type oil cooler. The AFCO in Penny now with move to the Track Rat project.

I've also started getting parts together for the new 427 sleeved LS3 engine.

We need to have her back on the road before March since I would like to run the Mojave Mile event.

new vs. old
 

Steve,

I had been running the old bfg g-force kd 275/40/18's in the rear. They were not great, even for the street, and gave you zero warning at the limit.
I have heard good things about the dunlop direzza star spec so I am going to get those in a 265/35/18. The right side rubs a bit with a 275, and I want to take out some negative camber (necessary for clearance). tire wear was brutal, and lousy for drag strip launches. My car is mainly for street, otherwise I would look at teh Toyo r888. I have 480 rwhp and 441 ft lbs. to harness.
check out these H2H links:

why do the cars with better power to weight and better tires keep posting slower times???
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DK-z...eature=related
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ngPG...eature=related

Today we started tearing down.. Also decided to try out this Autorad radiator and core support. I doubt it saves weight since the radiator is WAY bigger, but it's nice and I was curious to see what's up.

As you can see the opening is much much bigger than that stock core support. This should provide extra cooling capacity.

http://i49.tinypic.com/1o69oi.jpg

Gotta break some eggs to make an omlette.. This is really just a dry run since it will all come apart, engine out and fenders off so we can do some mods to the inner fenders.

http://i46.tinypic.com/aaji3m.jpg

Here you can see the new radiator in place. There were some fitment "challenges", but nothing insurmountable. I want to talk with the company on Monday to get thier take before going into detail. I love how the radiator fits to the new core support.

http://i50.tinypic.com/10rk5ro.jpg

Another view... we're going metalwork the DSE closeout panel to work with this system since I like how it comes "into" the engine bay.

http://i50.tinypic.com/14j59cm.jpg
Oh what the hell, let's take the whole car apart.. lol.. Next to come out will be the trans, engine and all the brake plumbing.

http://i49.tinypic.com/2d14kfl.jpg

Steve,

Looks like alot of fun. Question for you, did you paint the engine block and heads? I am torn on our project. Our's will be all aluminum and I'm not sure wether to paint it or not. I like the natural look, but I'm concerned about upkeep. Any thoughts? Sorry for the somewhat Hi-Jack. I just like the look you achieved. Thanks.

I just have the bare alum on the block and heads.. seems to clean up pretty easy then again I put in a new engine every year. lol

Personally I think paint is a PITA and is more likely to end up looking crappy. If I was going to do it I would clear powder the block but due to all the masking that would cost hundreds of dollars.

I say just go bare and keep up on the cleaning.. I just wash it down with soapy (DAWN) water every so often and blow it dry.

That is a killer looking set up. I may have to give autorad a call since I'm swapping radiators currently as well.

Steve
 

Penny is on steroids!!!!! It does just keep getting better and stronger.:hail:

Because there's more to it than just power and weight.. where the weight is and how the car grips makes more difference than just the power to weight ratio.

I really like the R888 tire.. if you drive in the rain then also look at the Toyo RA1 since it has more grooves. Neither are good for snow or sub freezing temps.

If you're having push you could try stiffening up the rear to induce more oversteer.

Steve, thanks for the feedback. I seen your results posted when the event was done. Good to know. I know Mark has been down this road but did you ever consider ABS or would that hinder you in the short autoX events like Goodguys.
Inner fender mods? Going Anvil CF?

It's a nice set-up.. getting the DSE closeout to fit will be a major chore and we have one fitment issue to run by them.

I like how large the surface area of the radiator is, and the fact that it's centered unlike the factory core support.

How much weight did that setup lose on the nose? Will you have revalve the front shocks and change out the sway Bar?:wow: :wow:

It's got to be like 10lbs max. No way anything needs changed suspension wise. I don't want to speak for Steve but having the extra space allows him to run a air cooled oil cooler without taking such a toll on the overall cooling of the car. That's exactly why I plan to run a heat exchanger just due to a packaging problem. I really like that radiator, it looks nice.

My guess is it's a wash.. when I take it back apart I will weigh the core supports.

Any weight saved will be taken up by the extra weight of the larger radiator and the extra fluid.

And I know you're just poking fun on the shock and sway bar deal ;)

I found what DSE found.. that the water based oil cooler is good, but not as good as an air based cooler (unless you're NASCAR and running a HUGE cooler and radiator). Nevertheless, it will be fine for Track Rat. This way I will be able to run a larger cooler on the passenger's side to try and move some weight around a bit. We will pass through the new firewall using bulkhead fittings and hardline to and from the cooler.

Looking at this:
http://www.frsport.com/Setrab-Oil-Co...s_p_15182.html

I've spent a bunch of time thinking about radiators and oil coolers and understand completely. You add a AC condensor and it get's more complex. Ron Davis has a big daddy heat exchanger that can be made part of the tank. I've yet to get them to commit to making it work in my car. I like the idea of no t stat and having room for my AC with a stock support. I've got to get it done since my new motor will be done soon and it's time to go racin.

DSE doesn't run a t-stat.. which makes me wonder how necessary it is. My cooling fans are manual so I guess I could flip them off if the oil is running cool. I guess I should talk with Kyle. The no t-stat thing was one of the main reasons for going with the water based cooler.

If I did run a t-stat I'm looking at this one...

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CT...0/?image=large

I think it's important if you plan to run in cool weather. To give you an idea. My coolant temps got down to 125-130 on the way to the optima challenge this year with a high flow t stat. While I realize this is coolant, they are known for not closing accurately after opening. It's in front of the radiator and could really cool off the oil. With my old block I was going to simply run a manual valve for the oil cooler since the block was plumbed for a seperate oil cooler. I'm not sure if that's an option for you but it's not a bad idea.

I was thinking real easy / cheap, blocking off the cooling fins when our great midwest weather takes a nose dive. ie: cardboard :captain:

I thought of that as well.. although I came up with something a bit more fancy than cardborad.. lol

My problem with this would be access. I would have to pull the DSE closeout to put it on and remove it.

What would be great would be if the remote oil filter mount had the t-stat integrated into it. That would save a bunch of plumbing.

Todd are you going to try running your car in 2010 at the race with all the neat parts you have on it that you should be invited.:lateral:

Maybe I can get him in.. I have a "little" pull :)

I would love see that car on the track man it to nice to be sitting in the parking lot like last year.

Todd needs to run it this year at Optima!!

I don't want to hijack Steve's thread but I appreciate the kind words. I plan to run as many events as possible this year. Have the new enclosed trailer for out of state events. I really wasn't ready for Optima this year. I would've done OK but my car is still being sorted out on the track. I want to put my best foot forward when I get in. That means more experience behind the wheel and more time tweaking my car. It gets better everytime I race it. The new engine should help. I really didn't need more power but the weight is a huge deal. I really need some seat time and instruction on the road course. I've got one partial day under my belt. Car actually felt better on the road course than autocross but I didn't spend much time at full tilt. I've never run with my OWN kind. That's what I look forward to the most.

I'm running that stat and like it so far. I haven't made it back to the track to really punish it but on the street the oil comes up to temp just as fast as it did without the setrab cooler and seems to level off just over the set temp rather than just climbing until I lost my nerve like it did before. The stat has huge flow passages so I din't think there is any really restriction there either. The plumbing is a bit of a pain though.

I don't know if would be able to find a way to incorporate one (but I know that you are more than capable of figuring it out) but the marine 502's used to have a thermostatically controlled oil cooler that sandwiched between the block and the filter. IIRC the thermostat was set at about 220; below that the oil went straight to the filter, above that it went to the cooler first.

My Canton thermostat (the one you reference) works great but is huge - especially once you get 4 -12 lines going through it. Earls makes a much more reasonably packaged t-stat that is just slightly bigger than a deck of cards.

That being said - I don't think that you need one with the water based cooler. But I might be mistaken.