Thanks guys. I hope they get it figured out for everyones sake. I will keep you posted on what happens.


I would encourage anyone having any issues with a school to read up on your state laws. You will be amazed at what is considered a crime and how easy it is for the school, parents and students to break them without even knowing it.
Protect your kids but also protect your self and your assets.

I sure hope it all works the way they say it will and its not alot of "blowing smoke up your ass" to get you to "go away".

I sure hope the kid gets what he needs....but the school cant fix him. Without the back up of good parents, everything the school does will likely fail. I hope I'm wrong on that....

Good luck....

Thanks Ned. I hope they follow through too. For my son AND the other kid. It sounds like the other parents are not willing to help in any way and just don't want to be bothered by any of it. The school has their work cut out for them for sure.
The school knows I am watching everything very close and that I am not going away any time soon.

Eric,sorry bro... you are doing the right thing. your boy is still young

If it doesn't stop let your kid give him a bully beat down
then I would visit the father and talk to him with my flash light

I'm with Pete! LOL

I'm liken' the flash light beat down!

We'll visit you in prison! And they have the Internet!!


:rofl:

Great! I can still keep in touch with all of you guys. Sounds like a plan! LOL!!

x2, so if your son does end up having to defend himself you have enough ammo to fight the school's "cover their ass" reaction.

I think as long as you have some pictures and documention of trying to work this out with the school, I'd tell him its okay to stand up for himself. Ultimately I think Frank is right if you fix the problem he will get a rep for not standing up for himself. If he does fight back other bullies will hear of it and stay clear. Unfortunately this is how bullies operate and schools are more afraid of a lawsuit than actually fixing the problems.

[Edit] Just read your last post about the school trying to make some accommodations for you and your son, I hope it works out for the best. Good luck!

Thanks fro the input Ed.
I do agree about letting him handle it himself and the need for that and how it will stop this in the future. But at 5 years old I am not too worried about the reputation thing taking hold. Next year and beyond yes, right now and it being his first time in school (public school system for full days) I need to coach him through it and take the high road.
I have all of this documented, dates, events, conversations, school nurse reports, phone records, teachers in class reports, playground supervisor reports, and a lot more. I am in a position to sue and win. But that is not the goal and I really do not want to take it there unless I have to. It's not about money and suing will not help anyone in the long run. It's about my son being safe and about the school doing the job they are obligated to do but are not doing at all. I would rather force everyone to buck up and perform. Sometimes it takes a lawsuit and loss of jobs and or money before that happens. I would rather resolve it before it gets to that level. But I am ready if need be.

Wow Eric life with kids is fun isn't it.

Okay so I can empathize and sympathize with this situation.

First off as a child I was always the smallest kid in the class but somehow I managed to be friends with everyone. Once and a while I would have a tuff time with a bully but it seems some of my bigger friends would always come to my aid. As time went the problems stopped and what I have learned I am teaching to my children (two girls 7 & 9 ). First off you need to be nice to everyone including your sister. My wife and I stand a very firm ground on this and it's if either one of my daughters or my daughters friends talk poorly to each other in our presence the playing stops till there is an apology.

This may sound strange but trust me I am the Dad that takes all the kids everywhere. Every Wednesday night you will find me at the local McDonalds with all the kids and some of the Moms. I have had as many as 8 kids by myself and I keep them all in check. You should see me on Halloween when I take 10 or 12 of them trick or treating.

So here is where we were in the same situation.

My oldest and one of the girls from school started having problems (no physical violence but trust me girls are brutal). We took the same approach you did but just one step further. We decided to arrange a play date with the little girl and my daughter so we could supervise there playing. This was pretty easy to set up since we try to meet all of the kids parents right from the get go. Trust me this works great and you will be doing this all the way through high school or till your kids leave the nest.

If you can somehow manage to meet with this child's parents and try to work this out where you can get your son and the bully together they might be able to become friends. In the end it will work to everyone's benefit and it may even help this kid become a better person.

It may sound like a lot of work but it's part of being a "Good Parent." Two benefits will come from this your son will not feel like you protecting him & the bully will end up having someone to look up to.

Ps - call me tonight if you want

Thank you Marty. I can relate to the dad with the kids everywhere. I am him too.
I honestly had not even thought about what you suggested about getting the boys together like that. My focus has been on keeping them apart. But I sure can see where that would solve the issue and make a big difference in how they treat each other. My sons birthday is coming up soon, I will have to think about maybe inviting the other kid over if we do a party here. But then again maybe a meeting like that would be better one on one the first few times to establish a positive relationship first. (no other kids as distractions or influence).
I will give this some very serious consideration and talk it over with my wife as well.
I got your number, thanks again.

Since there kids the best place is to start at the park or a common ground that kids like. We have tons of small parks by us and I know which ones are good for this kind of supervision.

ps - Freshman year of High School I bumped a kid in line and he picked my up by my chest and told me he was going to kill me. I laughed at him and ever since that day we have been best friends. He was the best man at both of my wedding and we talk ever morning. He has become a brother to me.

Very cool! It worked out great in your instance. In mine, getting beat up everyday in 6th grade didn't. It took until my 20 year reunion for HS and seeing the guy and finding out he has a miserable life alone, no kids, two ex wives, broke, a drunk,......when I found out all of that I felt this huge wieght off my shoulders and figured he got what he deserved. After 6th grade I stood my ground and got into plenty of "discussions" with guys that wanted to pick up where he left off (went to different schools after 6th) but I learned how to fight pretty well and got the rep of being the nice guy who didn't take any crap. I always treated people the way I wanted to be treated. It worked out well in life.
Thanks again for the advice. I do appreciate it and will give it some real consideration.

I was kind of thinking that you could teach your kid some ''Pulp Fiction'' moves... o hand him a gun. Ok what do I know you say? I'm seventeen, I'm still at the age of the bullies and the crap, and you're right about not letting him fix it by his own, even if he can, he should not, BUT, he can't keep taking anymore **** from the bully, so if the bully comes close to him again and do something dangerous to him, he has to react, really, he has to do something by himself to, hes not made to take **** on anyone, but it's good you teach him not to be violent, but tell him he has to defend himself, and if he does, and it turns against you, legal way is always the best, you have proof and witnesses (at least I think) that you tried to do it the easy cool way, you have everything on your side if there are proof you already tried to do something about it.

You might ask, what experience do I have? I was a target too, my parents tried the same thing you're trying, and, well, talking with them, didn't work, talking with the parents didn't either, going harsh with them didn't either, what happened, is that they god mad and wiped my ass... All of them, together, at the same time, and you know what I still think about them? Pussies... Of course I taught them a lesson, I was young, I was 8, and I wiped their asses, one by one, because I had to... And then I got screwed because the teacher went into the classroom. At the principal's office they were all ''just because they do it you have to do it too?'', I said ''hey Sherlock, take some **** and don't defend yourself, I'm tired of that crap and I'm out of here'' I left the office, no one did anything to me again. Even though that crap is common, we have to take care of it by our ways too, because schools are busy enough to not handle the situations (this meaning they don't give a crap, I know the system), and sometimes and most of the cases, talking with the kids and all that pacific stuff, pisses them off a lot more. So, it's good to see that school tried to took care of it, but, for what I know, it might not work, and if I'm right, your kid will have to take it on his own hands.

I understand what you mean. And I had to take care of it on my own as a kid too. But at his current age, and the way this world is with lawsuits I need to deal with this one. There will come a time when he has to handle it on his own and I will support him in that as well. For now he will defend himself in the way of blocking at this point. If it comes to a point where he needs to knock the crap out of the kid he will. But for now I will deal with it this way first.
Thanks for the advice though.:thumbsup:

But sometimes, if not all, that kid needs someone to beat him back so he doesn't continue treating people like that and the sooner the better. I understand not wanting to raise your kid to be violent but he has to know it's okay to defend himself. Maybe not beat the crap out of the kid but if the kid punches him in the face he should swing back. Not beat the crap out of him, just pop him back. Assertive and strong so the bully knows he's not afraid of him and he won't let someone treat him like that. Because the bully is only picking on him because he's not defending himself. And it really can't be good for your kids self-esteem. He may know he can beat the kid but it's got to be imbarrassing to let the bully mess with him. Getting that kid removed from that class just probably just make things worse. Then he'll be picking on him at recess and lunch and/or waiting of him before and after school and he'll blame your son for "getting him in trouble" and then what? One day that bully might push him too far and your kid might really hurt him. Or the bully might do something extreme to try to get him to fight back and hurt your son. He should never start anything though. I was in a few fights between kindergarden, 1st, and 2nd grade. I never started any of them and I put up with a lot of stuff but when I had to fight back I did and I never had a problem with anyone after. I didn't beat up the kid, most of the got broken up pretty quickly, and no one ever got punished. May have just been luck but I honestly don't understand how the school could punish someone of standing up to that kind of behavior, though I know it happenes. I even got in a fight with a kid in the 1st grade because he was messing with someone, not really my friend but it was really bad what he was doing to him and after he never messed with anybody as far as I know. The kid just needed to be shown that what he was doing was wrong and those kind of people don't really respond to being told no matter the age. So I'm not saying he should just start fighting everyone that gives him a hard time but I think he should stand up for himself. And when you do decide it's time for him to stand up for himself, try to go over the kinds of things that should be, not allowable but understandable for fighting back. That part I believe is very important and should be done the sooner the better. Just my opinion but whatever happens I hope everything turns out for the better.

I have talked some more with my son about this. And his martial arts teacher. My son is very aware that he has the right and that he should defend himself at all times. He knows that I will back him up and he will NOT get in any trouble from me for responding to this kid and kicking the hell out of him. My son does not want to. And I like that. He just wants it to stop. We agreed that I would try to take care of it. And I have (more in a minute on that). He knows that if the other kid even so much as touches him in an aggressive way that he has open season on his ass. The school knows he is able to do this. If it comes to the point where my son has had enough he will take care of it. We are on a whole new level with this now.

The school has taken extreme measures with the other child and his parents. The state agencies that should be involved are now. The school district superintendant has now gotten involved too. My son will be safe. The other kid is now getting some professional help and he really needs it. It turns out his home life is much worse than we all thought. Honestly, the LAST thing that kid needs is a beatdown by my son. I want to see him taken care of in a positive way and have a better life.
After talking with the school some more today and having more information all the way around it has only confirmed to me that I went the right direction in holding my son back and insisting the school help the other kid as much as I insisted they keep my son safe.

And I got the news this morning that the principal is "retiring" NOW. They are actively looking for a replacement for the position and the vice principal is filling in.

Had my son beat this kid it would have done a few really bad things.
1 It would have opened me up to being sued.
2 It would have gotten him suspended and a bad mark on his records that will follow him everywhere.
3 It woud NOT have taught the other kid anything he does not already know all too well.
4 It would have taken everyone involved ten steps back in trying to find a solution.

It looks like we have a positive solution for everyone right now. They do know (the school and district office) that if there is even any kind of MINOR incident that I will move forward with some very serious legal action and will include the media.

There is just no room for this in school. If you have any doubt about what bullying can do to a kid look at the recent news in Tx about a 9 year old in 4th grade who just hung himself in the nurses restroom. While she was just outside the door. It is a serious issue, and without getting to the source (bad parents and bullys) it will never get resolved.
36 kids between 5 years old and 13 years old in the last 7 years have commited suicide. Almost all of those were related to a bully issue in some way. My son will not be a statistic. I am just trying to be a good parent, and a good person. My son was not the only one hurting here. He is doing GREAT and loves school. The other kid is not doing so well. He needs outside help and now he is getting it. The state will force the issue with his parents and remove him from the home if they feel he is in need of that.

Thanks again to everyone for the support and advice. All of it has been a great help. I will keep this thread updated if anything happens. No news is good news. :thumbsup:

Eric,

I REALLY have to commend you for your level headedness. You didnt react like we all want to when our kids get picked on, including me. You showed great restraint, and pursued the issue as needed. You are a stand up guy, and a GREAT example of a parent.

:cheers:

THANKS Mike! I really appreciate hearing that. It was not easy at all to keep my head on straight. My first reaction was to want my kid to clean his clock. And for me to do the same to the kids dad. But I have to teach by example and something that has the potential to get as crazy as this could had to be handled the right way.I just want the kids safe. At home, school or anywhere. And it became apparent that the other kid was in a world of hurt and needed as much if not more help than my own son. Gotta do what's right ya know! Thanks again Mike, it means a lot to hear that.:cheers:

Sounds like things are going to be ok now. I hope that is the case.
GOOD LUCK BUD!:cheers:

So far so good. Thanks Tony!:thumbsup:

GREAT example of a good parent.
Best luck with your boy

Thank you Pete, that means a lot to me.

How is your grandbaby and daughter doing? I hope everyone is well. We need a picture of the little one.:thumbsup:

Eric, you have done the right thing and have exhausted all ways to handle this situation. I hope it all works out...please keep us updated! :thumbsup:

Eric I had missed this thread, nothing more to add (my oldest is only 3.5 so my experience is quite limited!) but it sounds like you have handled it very well. Hope the situation stabilizes for you. -Rob

Thanks Bryan and Rob,
So far it seems to be ok. The teacher is really happy I took it to the level I did since she was getting no support from the principal. And that he is retiring now is just icing on the cake. I am VERY happy about that.
The school has really stepped up and helped the other kid too. I hope they keep the pressure on the state and other parents and follow through for him.
My son is doing great. He is happy the other kid is leaving him alone and he seems much more relaxed now.
I'll keep you all posted. Thanks again for all of the good advice and kind words.

Sometimes it's hardest to do the right thing. You did. Congratulations. Your kid and the bully are both lucky they have you.

I wonder if he is retiring because of what was going on and his handling of the situation?
Either way, it's all good!!!:thumbsup: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:

i grew up with a martial arts background. my parents gave me a real simpe set of rules

1)there is never a good reason to lie
2)you never throw the first punch
3)you can do what ever you want as long as you are willing to accept the consequences...

These were the rules that were layed out for me. i must admit im a "good" kid.
im 26 and have never done any drugs. never been to jail, never been into any real trouble.

with that being said i think that you are trying to make a passive approach to your sons situation which is very admirable, BUT one day your son will have to take a stand. I think your doing a great job handling the situation but at the same time this new era of kids has no respect or morale.. just keep that in the back of your head when the next bully comes around.. when little girls are capable of hazing another one into a coma its clear that the only reason these kids keep bullying is because they have no consequences for their actions. one day our son will have to be the consequence...

I totally agree with what you are saying. And I know there will be a time that he has to deal with something like this first hand. My biggest concern about this one is my sons age and it is his first year in school. I had to show him that there is a way to handle it without fighting. BUT.....he DOES know that he may have no choice and need to make some other kid understand where he is coming from too. He is a smart kid. He will do what is right based on the situation. An example of why he DIDN'T fight back on two occasions was that the other kid threw stuff from a distance, the teacher saw, he got busted. Now if my son had run over and kicked his ass in front of all the other 5 year olds he would have been in huge trouble with the school (not me though) and he would have been suspended. When the kid punched him in the eye they were standing in line ready to go to the lunch room, the kid was behind him and pushed my son forward hard. When my son turned to see what the deal was and told him to stop it the kid called him stupid and punched him in the right eye. My son did hit him back (three hard rapid punches in the chest) and knocked him down(made him cry too:D ). But the kid didn't learn and still kept throwing stuff, kicking him then running away....that kind of crap. He is a sneaky little sh**.
So my son did fight back when it was needed and possible while in front of each other. After that most incidents involved something being thrown so my son could not reach him. He knows better than to chase him down and beat him up. He handled it right as far as I am concerned. His school teacher and martial arts teacher also agree he did well. I had to get involved to get it to stop. And it seems to be handled at this point. Brenden (my son) knows that if the kid does ANYTHING to him in the future that he can and should unload on him.

good deal. im glad your kid's on the right track. the kids these days are just flat out weird!! i think no one being held accountable for their actions (parents and kids) is the root of most of the problems everyone faces these days..

That is just it. No one is being called out on what they do anymore. It is all about who can come up with the best excuse or who is better at pointing fingers.
But in the end all we can do is keep our own side of the street clean.

I see some STELLAR examples of parents around here. It amazes me that someone thinks a crying 2 year old needs a serious spanking in a public store (or at all for that matter) just because they are crying. Or because the asked for something in the store and the parent beats them instead of explaining to them why they can't have it. Kids are a direct product of the environment they are raised in. But the parents raising these little monsters will not take ANY responsibility for what they have done. Unfortunatley a lot of the time the only way to get someones attention these days is with a trip to jail or court getting sued.
I am shocked at how some people treat their kids. I see it all the time. I saw a lady reach into her back seat and slap her baby in the face just the other day. The baby had to be under two years old and was crying for some reason. Maybe the kid dropped a toy? Maybe it was hungry? Maybe needed a change of diaper? I don't know. But I can not think of ANY good reason to slap a baby for crying. Why not get out of the car, off her fat ass, put the cigarette down and see what the kid needs. Then provide what it needs. Be a parent, not a "keeper". I was so pissed at her I could not see straight. Unfortunatley she was in the turn lane next to me and went in a different direction when the light changed, I didn't get a look at the lic plate.

I think there should be a test of some sort for anyone who wants to have a kid. Make sure they have the common sense and can handle it before running off and having a whole soccer team of future felons. Just my .02 on that.

Hey guys,
I just wanted to update this and let everyone know that the school has really taken this issue seriously. So far everything they said they would do they have done. And there have been ZERO problems so far. I couldn't be happier. And my son is getting back in the groove of things again and seems much more relaxed at home and at school.

I wanted to thank everyone for the advice, opinions and help since I posted the problem. The amount of goodwill here is just amazing. Thanks again guys!

:cheers:

good deal man, glad everything worked out!

Very good to hear Eric. That is great news for your entire family.
GOOD DEAL!:thumbsup: :cheers:

Rising a child is the important & hardess job in the world.And any goof ball is aloud to do it.Every child is important and should be risied that way.They need to be taught right & wrong.When they are not loved or taught the right way to treat there fellow man that when these types of problems come up.:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

We would all fail.

Hi Eric,

After reading this thread I really have to commend you on taking the route you did although I don't think I would have been as tolerant or patient as you and would have taken Franks advice at a much earlier point. I agree with Frank that the social structure that exists in grade school almost demands that that type of response be made although I understand your hesitance that he do this at such an early age.

One question I do have is, although the school is doing everything they said they would, how long will they be doing this? To have an assistant standing around in class to keep this kid under control is EXPENSIVE for the school district! Once the staff and the district feel that the problem has been "solved" they'll probably pull the assistant. Once he's gone the problem will still be there. Maybe that's why I lean a little more towards Franks suggestion as the same thing happened to my son. Some kid was bullying him and the school district was doing nothing about it even though I had countless meetings with them. In my last meeting I gave the staff an ultimatum that if they were going to let this persist that my attorney would be contacting the school districts attorney and I would give my son free reign on this kids face. They still did nothing and my son came home with some bruises on his arm. I had had enough. I told him that if ANYONE tried to hurt him that he had every right to defend himself. About a week later I get a call from the principal telling me my son had attacked this kid! Luckily I had documented our past meetings and brought all my paperwork along with my attorney to the meeting.

Boy did they're attitude change once my attorney showed up!

They assured me that they would take care of the matter, blah blah blah!

BS! I told them that it was too late and that I was preparing legal action against the teacher, the principal and the district. I gathered my son and my attorney and I left the meeting. I don't thing we got past the parking lot when my attorneys cell phone rings. Guess who was calling him? The LAUSD attorneys office!

Suffice to say that my sons record was wiped clean and the kid never bothered my son again!

John

John,
Believe me, the next step is my son cleaning his clock and my attorney cleaning the school districts. I know it is a matter of time before they think the problem is "solved" and remove any supervision from the other kid. I HOPE that the counseling and intervention in his home by the state will work to keep any future incidents from happening. But I am also realistic and know that the odds of that are slim. It will come down to my son defending himself with force. And at that time the legal crap gets deep. But I have everything documented and I have done everything a responsible parent should do to fix this mess. If it comes to my son beating the other kid, so be it. At least we tried. But I had to take the high road FIRST. For many reasons.
Thanks for the advice. I do appreciate all of it.

Quick update.

There has been drastic improvements with this issue. My son has been happier at school. The other boy that was the problem has been getting A LOT of attention from the school staff and is headed in the right direction at this point. He needed some serious help and guidance and is getting it.
So overall it has improved by leaps and bounds. It has not been without it's little speed bumps but overall much better for everyone involved.

Thanks again to everyone who offered input. All of it was of great help in getting this handled.
Have a great weekend everyone!:cheers:

Good to hear buddy.
Have a good one.:thumbsup: