Frank let us know when the story starts in super chevy..so i know when to press "subscribe" button:_paranoid

I saw the first blurb and pictures of the rusted shell in the latest issue.

Frank...have you guys ever used a Dynacorn body for a project?

Yes, our Going for the Gold Blue 69 Camaro was a Dynacorn build.

Do you find it easier to start with a good steel body or from scratch with an original but very rusty body...regardless of the steel mods that you may want to do. I realize there are pro's and con's to each....just wondering if the cost of new steel parts and all the repair time outweigh modifying a solid body.

We certainly talked about a Dynacorn body.

For the sheetmetal we needed to repair the body is about $4000 (not including our aluminum front sheemetal) that the Dynacorn body does not come with.

With a new body we would have to remove the floors front to rear , remove inner and outer wheelhouses, then cut out the firewall, then remove and replace the outer rockers (extending) by the time we were done we would have the Dynacorn trimed down to a skeleton anyway.

Frank looks like a sickkk idea, I'm likeing the idea of this:thumbsup:. What kind of supercharger are you guys planning on?
Joe

The supercharger is Kenne Bell's 3.6L monster.

http://www.kennebell.net/supercharge...e/BigBore.html

This is what they call rust free Florida cars Frank LOL

OK guys, so here it is. The Art Morrison 5 link!

What? Too many bars?

That right there is a true no compromise road race 3 link set up when the upper outer bars are removed. That is also a true no compromise Drag Race 4 link (just like a Pro Stocker) when the upper center car is removed! Quite honestly this is one of those things that is right in front of you no one saw it!

We approached Art and Craig Morrison at SEMA with this idea of building the fastest ALL AROUND Pro Touring car ever including 8 second quarters. Art told me I really should not party so much when I am in Vegas, LOL! So we told the Morrison's of our idea of making the car a "Pro Touring transformer" of sorts. A car with the ability to quickly (few hours) transform from a great autocross / road race car to a great drag car by moving some stuff around and swapping some easy to change Components (Read more later). The idea was for a suspension system with massive adjust ability. Those Morrison's are so damn smart. Craig made my day one morning when he called, GOT IT! A 3 / 4 link! Of coarse I thought immediatly! I could not call Parson's fast enough.

I am sure all the suspension scientist here will agree a properly tuned 3 link is as good as G machine suspension gets. Personally I think it is the best, but that could be argued all day.

And no one can even argue a proper (drag race) parallel 4 link is the absolute best on the drag strip!

So yes guys, it Will work on the road coarse, it WILL hook at the drag strip.

You guys are welcome to ask any questions, I will answer the big ones now.

(1) Will this set up be available to buy? YES! We will have these available SOON! But DO NOT call Prodigy or AME to buy YET! Please give us sometime to get it in the car, look at packaging and minor fabrication.

(2) When will we be ready to take orders? SOON! While we DO NOT need to have this in a running in the car to KNOW it works, We simply have to work out the final fitment and cost. So I can take reservations immediatly and I suspect we can start taking orders in 30 days, but again, PLEASE do not inundate AME or me with phone calls quite yet. Remember you are getting a preview before we should give you a preview.

(3) How much will it cost? AME is still working on that. Keep in mind, Project unfair is a car with a goal, so cost analysis comes AFTER you have the real thing in front of you. The suspension system was done the same way, build it and get it done, look at cost later. Craig and I did discuss some general cost ideas and tragets, and basing it on the current AME rear clip in a Tri 4 bar or 3 link is right around $3600 to $4000 for clip and housing (DEAL), Hopes are to keep this multi link clip and housing set up in the $5000 to $5500 range. But again, all the cost still have to be examined.

(4) Does the car have to be back halfed? NO! the frame rails are molded to fit the original rear floor like AME's other 3 Link and Tri 4 Bar clips. You just drill out your old frame rails and weld these new stronger molded 2 X 3 rails in place. HOWEVER, there is some penetration through the floor where the upper links connect, and there will be some reliefs and closeouts that will have to be fabricated, but this should be very mild fabrication.

(5) How big a tire can this handle? More then a notched factory frame as long as you do not use pre packaged tubs. The outer frame rails are 1" more narrow then the narrowest possible frame width with thinnest factory frame rail notch one can do. And what is so cool is you not only keep a full rail where you normally notch, but you have a stronger rail also. Our drag tires will be 345 / 35 / 18 Drag Radials with a section around 14.5"! So we will be making bigger mini tubs for Unfair.

I will leave it at that for now. So ask any questions

Enjoy

http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u...DSC_0179-1.jpg

http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u...DSC_0182-2.jpg

That is bad ass!

Love it Frank!

One big question --

I was always under the impression that 4 link was horrible for cornering -- so what do you "remove" or change on this set up to go right and left.

I'm a little surprised there is no "swivel link" type bars used in order to gain some tilt for cornering given the tall order for Unfair. But then again - you know (and JP) WAY WAY WAY more about this stuff than most here. So just trying to learn something with my question.

:thumbsup:

Greg,

For cornering applications, you run a 3 link, with the upper/outer bars removed. For drag racing, you run a 4 link, with the upper/center bar removed.

You never run the car with all 5 bars connected.

The rod ends are Spohn's Del-Sphere Pivot Joints, and they are very cool. They pivot just fine with a steel on Delrin interface, and are adjustable (for stiction), rebuildable, and greaseable.

http://www.spohn.net/shop/Del-Sphere-Pivot-Joints/

Hope that helps.

jp

If you remove the upper 4 link bars it becomes a 3 link. It's an interesting idea that works well here but how many people adjust their existing single type of suspension? Also, it sure seems like the drag race crowd is a completely different group from autocross/road course. but perhaps this project will help with that.

this sytem IS NOT for the guy that does not like to tinker with his car. If your just a drag racer or just a G machiner, there are lots of choices available. this supnesion for guys like me that want to autocross on Saturday and drag race on Sunday, literly


It is kinda funny, my partner shared your feelings. John thought someone insterested in handling did not care much about drag racing. UNTIL..............we went to Barret Jackson with II Much.

We sat with II Much (and EmptyNest) every minute the auction was open. To field questions before the sale. Do you care to guess what the most common question about II Much was at Barret Jackson?

What's in run in the quarter? John would answer he had never drag raced it, that is was a road race / G machine.

Know what the next question was?

So what do you THINK it would run in the quarter?

The quarter mile is something that is a number, something one can relate to, bragging rights! Drag racing is also readily available and not as scary to most as actually road racing their car.

So this made John and I talk about what ET II Much might have run in the quarter, and how cool it would be to have a car that did both excellent and...........................................

Yep....certainly going to watch this one!! Great start on the suspension!! :thumbsup:

That does! Thanks John! That was what I "thought" but wasn't certain. Makes perfect sense... but sometimes I have none! LOL

[QUOTE=ProdigyCustoms;284148]OK guys, so here it is. The Art Morrison 5 link!

What? Too many bars?

That right there is a true no compromise road race 3 link set up when the upper outer bars are removed. That is also a true no compromise Drag Race 4 link (just like a Pro Stocker) when the upper center car is removed! Quite honestly this is one of those things that is right in front of you no one saw it!

We approached Art and Craig Morrison at SEMA with this idea of building the fastest ALL AROUND Pro Touring car ever including 8 second quarters. Art told me I really should not party so much when I am in Vegas, LOL! So we told the Morrison's of our idea of making the car a "Pro Touring transformer" of sorts. A car with the ability to quickly (few hours) transform from a great autocross / road race car to a great drag car by moving some stuff around and swapping some easy to change Components (Read more later). The idea was for a suspension system with massive adjust ability. Those Morrison's are so damn smart. Craig made my day one morning when he called, GOT IT! A 3 / 4 link! Of coarse I thought immediatly! I could not call Parson's fast enough.

I am sure all the suspension scientist here will agree a properly tuned 3 link is as good as G machine suspension gets. Personally I think it is the best, but that could be argued all day.

And no one can even argue a proper (drag race) parallel 4 link is the absolute best on the drag strip!

So yes guys, it Will work on the road coarse, it WILL hook at the drag strip.

That is sweet idea and set up guys, who would have thought. Love it :thumbsup:

This may be the coolest car ever built. I am a dragracer at heart just starting to learn about this turning stuff. I love it!!

sounds like a great project, but surely for a road course or laguna seca a full IRS would be preferable?

would that setup be a limiting factor in a drag race?

wow those are some big goals. well it looks like you chose a light weight car to begin with.lol. I cant wait to see this progress. good luck on the build it looks like you guys have the capability to make it happen keep the inspirations coming.:thumbsup:

this is great inspiration- thank you for sharing this build with the rest of us!

Cant wait to see more pics Frank!

Yeah,

Pictures vs. text ... UNFAIR!

;)

The five link...:hail:

what do you consider ice cool because the average iat at 15 psi on the kb kits is around 135 to 140 ish degrees

Far as i am aware have the highest rwhp horsepower 05 up mustang in the country running a kb 2.6 blower 996 rwhp with a 2.6 H unit the 2.9 can make 1000 + rwhp the unit you are looking at 1300 + rwhp my car ran nines all day and drove like a stock car < albeit i ran race fuel in it :) >

there are many late model efi street cars that run int he low nines high eights with street aminities .. they just arent classic pro trouring cars search some of the late model mustang camaro and corvette forums..

there goal is very plausible with the right setup ive been 203 mph and 7's quarter in my full race drag radial mustang also on a 295-60-15 and thats with stock controll arm replacement UPR mustang factory angled four link and a anti roll bar wich is not as effective as a true four link so the et they are looking for is cake with proper seuspension and the tire they plan to run

Frank,
you mentioned or I saw somewhere you were going to run wheelie bars for the track. These I would assume would be a "bolt on as needed part" similar to the way the 3/4 link works. But looking at this pic, it looks like you're running out of real estate. LOL. Have you guys designed a way to run them yet ?

130s are damn low for a blower car.

Sounds like a badd beotch

We won't need wheelie bars. 4 links can be tuned to hook and keep the front wheels down. but they do look cool!

I was at the dyno last week -- they were running a WHIPPLE (Whipplecharger) on a 632 ci "boat motor".... it had a water intercooler under the blower. The observed cooler temps (air) was 105* and this pig was making 1300 hp.

We figured the air temps were "far cooler" than "normal" because it was a WET blower application (the injectors were at the intake) and the fuel was really helping to keep things cool.

Frank and John did you guys ever consider an IRS for the rear?


A simple methanol/E85 injector pre-throttle body can knock those IAT's way down! If you want to run straight E85 / meth you don't even need an intercooler. I've seen charger motors with IAT's in 30 - 40 C range.

I've been involved in drag racing my whole life from when i was in diapers.
A properly "tuned" 4 link will plant the tires and center of gravity along with front limiters etc will "help" calm a cars launch. However all it takes is one good launch and that back bumper will get some road rash. LOL. I've seen some properly tuned, high dollar, beautifull cars with no wheelie bars kiss the sky only to come crashing down HARD. I know you guys know what you're doing so I'll leave it at that. That rear suspension looks killer ! :thumbsup:

No you gotta admit, Autocross on Saturday and wheelies on Sunday is pretty damn cool! I will put caster wheels on the bumper if I have to, LOL!

I hope this does'nt fall in line with G-Force Cuda ??It was to be the Ultimate ! All the money and did not do what it was built for !! Ask Alan Johnson ??

We have kissed the sky quite a few times, But we have also carried a few 1/2 track wheelies out to some 7.80's. But my buddy Roger just ran some 7.30's without wheelie bars in his new car, and lifted. It is very tricky. We would move just a few pounds of weight front to back depending on track conditions and the power we were putting to the ground. You typically set the instant center a tick longer and drive into the power, He is running 726 Fulton with 5 stages.

Without much adjustment, You guys better have alot of moveable weight on the car.

interested in this, I've no experience with drag racing so I'm interested in the limitations of IRS.

I know that solid axles are technically inferior when corners are involved, but there's a fair number of solid axle cars doing well on road courses, but no one would "start" a theoretical ultimate car design build with a solid axle unless there were other reasons, such as drag races

Frank,

I am glad to see you got this project posted. I got the chance to see the starting point, when I visited the shop back in January, and the picture doesn't come close in showing what little you guys have to start with. My hats are off you and your crew :hail:

Dave

No doubt my friend.... the word "cool" is an understatement !

Jeff,
Do you have a link to some of this info? I would love to read more about the IAT's in 30-40 C range. Where the cars setup for drag racing? Was the car running a 1 or 2 gallon tank of E85 or meth?

I dig up some sites and PM them to you. I don't want to de-rail Frank's thread.