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Sometimes a little mistake can add a lot of work and additional scope creep. Grrrr
A while back, I'd taken part of the dash out while removing the HVAC system and smoothing the firewall. While doing so I used some masking tape to protect the dash from scratches while removing the gauge panel fascia. I've done this several times in the past 20+ years since I originally dyed the dash. By sticking the tape to clothing several times before applying it the stickiness is reduced and the tape can be carefully removed within a few days without removing the vinyl dye. Well, I didn't remove the tape right away this time and am paying the price. http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/f...ps7bdb902a.jpg Stripping and redying the dash in the car with the cage in the way would make it very difficult so I figured , remove the dash right? I'd asked the cage builder at the fabrication shop to leave enough room to get the dash out so that if/when a new dash was needed and reproductions were available I could replace the original. Good plan but the dash wouldn't come out without hacking away part of the dash structure and cutting back the metal where the upper dash mounts. Now although I got the dash out I had to remove the vent mounting area on the left side for clearance. That requires me to make a new gauge panel as well as doing the repairs necessary and strip/dye the dash before reinstalling it. http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/f...pse58cde6f.jpg Then scope creep took over once again. I figured since I've gone that far and no longer have to protect the dash I'd might as well remove the rear carpet, do the floor, and shoot the cage with a gun. I had a deadline to make a track day when I was reassembling the car after the cage install several years ago and didn't have time to strip and paint the floors. Also with the windshield, rear window, headliner, dash, door panels, etc. in the car I couldn't mask everything well enough and have access to shoot the cage so I painted it with a brush. So nows the time and I'm stripping the floor as well as sanding the cage. The only things left in the car are the headliner, shifter, brake pedal, and wires. Had I known I'd get this deep I would have taken everything out from the start and saved a lot of time and materials trying to keep things masked off. By the way, it really sucks trying to work in a caged car. My car evolved over time rather than being a ground up build originally. If you're gonna get a cage, strip and paint the interior first. http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/f...ps301955a6.jpg |
Floor stripped to bare metal and painted with Chassis Saver.
http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/f...psff64e4f9.jpg |
My dash dye story was about a small mistake that cost me big. This one will hopefully prevent some of you from making a mistake I see too often.
While prepping cars for paint people have a tendency to concentrate their efforts on the exterior. Spending hours on panel alignment to get the best gaps, sculpting perfect body lines, and spending many hours block sanding to make the car straight. Meanwhile the door, hood, and trunk openings get little or no attention other than maybe a quick once over before paint. I've seen lots of cars with beautiful exterior paint and when opening a door, trunk, or hood there's bondo globs, grinder marks, wire wheel gouges, 80 grit sand scratches, rust pits, and dents that have been painted body color. I think of the openings as a transition zone which shouldn't attract attention between the gorgeous exterior and an inviting interior, engine compartment, or trunk. My tip is to treat the areas you see when opening things as well as you would the exterior. Yes, I know it's a lot of tedious work and it doesn't look like you accomplish much for the time spent but it will greatly improve the overall quality of the paint job.The edges of the hood and front fenders should be treated like the exterior even if your engine compartment looks like crap now. You may do an engine compartment makeover later and wish you'd spent more time on the prep work there. To be sure you're doing the areas that are seen, put the associated pieces in position so you can see the areas that will show when the car is painted. Then treat those areas to the same care you would an exterior panel. You can see in the pics below how much of the trunk jamb needs to be done nicely. Yes it is a real pain to smooth and sand the hinge pocket area with the welded in bracket in place, but do it. Note the vertical area between the filler panel and trunk lip that goes all the way across between the hinge areas. It gets missed a lot on 2nd gens because people don't realize it's seen. I did the whole area under the filler panel pretty nice but you won't see most of it so if patience isn't your thing concentrate on the areas that are seen. Seam sealer will be used around the bracket where it's welded to the body. I'm getting all the jamb areas in final primer which will be sanded again before sealer and paint. http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/f...ps84fcdc34.jpg http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/f...pse31431f9.jpg http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/f...ps344bff0f.jpg For the door jambs get your interior door panel and set it in place for the visual. There's a raised rib between the inner panel and door gasket that shows body color when everythings assembled so be sure to work past that rib to about where the interior panel clips pop in. The hinge end of the door isn't as critical just keep in mind what you can see when the door's open. http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/f...ps7f1be6d7.jpg http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/f...pse6e85992.jpg |
Most 2nd gen F bodies need rear window channel repairs at some point because of a lousy drainage design. I never knew until taking the car apart this time but mine was repaired by the previous owner with fiberglass in the 70's. I didn't remove the rear window the first time I painted my car 25 years ago but with it out this time I noticed the fiberglass matting and started digging with wire wheels and grinder discs exposing some areas that had rusted through and thin metal with pitting in surrounding sections.Luckily the rusted parts had not extended beyond the part covered by the trim before the previous owner had glassed it over preserving it.
Welding in new metal would require welding over the headliner and risking warping the exterior sheet metal so I chose to add new metal by bonding it in with panel bond. I DO NOT recommend this type of repair if the rust extends to the exterior surface because there is a high probability of ghosting and other surface anomalies occurring after painting the car. This happens because of the different expansion/contraction rates of single thickness sheet metal vs. double thickness sheet metal, and the panel bond itself. If the rust extended to the exterior I would have made a new channel and butt welded it in place. For this repair I wire wheeled the window channel to remove all rust and cut out the thin rusted sections of the channel with a cut off wheel. Removed paint on the backside with sandpaper rolls on a tapered mandrel attached to a long reach die grinder to get up in the little channel inside the quarter. Welded trim studs in sheet metal measured to line up in the centers of the holes I'd made, then cut and ground the patch panels to fit. Dimpled the panels where the trim rivets that will be used for trim clips are being retained after panel install (extras are used to hold patch panels while drying). Bend twist panels to fit tight to the back of the original window channel. Finger smear panel bond on backside of channel and locate panel into position. Pull the panel tight using the trim rivets to pull on. Used old bondo spreaders with a slot cut and additional spreaders used as a wedge to keep panels tight while drying. Used carbide grinding tip on die grinder to remove unneeded trim rivets. Ground off excess panel bond and then added a layer of panel bond over the repaired section including all pitted areas. Ground down panel bond with 36 grit wheel and hand sanded to make sure the panel bond was slightly lower than the metal. Finger smear bondo over the whole section. Sanded bondo smooth and epoxy primed, ready for high build primer and finish sanding. Backside will be brush painted with epoxy primer to cover any bare metal of the sanded metal and patches. http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/f...psc46a69e8.jpg http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/f...ps043a021c.jpg http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/f...psb4dc4855.jpg http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/f...psaeb28cff.jpg http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/f...ps36d1b640.jpg http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/f...psd98e29d4.jpg http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/f...ps3515bee7.jpg http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/f...ps1921610f.jpg http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/f...ps2a6d3e5d.jpg |
I like the look of gutted race car interiors with their spartan "all business" look. I also like the look of well done complete interiors. My car's kind of in between with carpeting, headliner, and a stock looking dash while also having a full cage, Kirkeys, fire systems, etc. I Removed the heating system leaving the defroster vents wide open and you can see the dash wiring, heat shield, etc. through the openings and also through the speaker grill since there's no speaker there. So I decided to cut out the raised area around the defroster openings and smooth the dash top with a solid panel that will be bonded to the original metal between the dash pad and the windshield. When completed and painted it should look stock but without openings.
http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/f...psd7eb5235.jpg http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/f...ps8d035484.jpg http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/f...ps5a249ca2.jpg http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/f...ps770bb7c8.jpg http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/f...psf5b4c986.jpg http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/f...ps575a5317.jpg[/QUOTE] |
After making the opening for the VIN I roughed up both surfaces to be bonded with 36 grit and modified a bondo spreader to spread the panel bond evenly in cornrows like you would installing bathroom tile .
http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/f...psbb6fdb06.jpg I used a few clamps to press the pieces together and hold them for 24 hours. The top of the dash being covered is concave and there's compound curves on the ends so I formed the panel as well as I could before bonding and clamped it well. http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/f...ps7380ae1f.jpg Filed off the extra 1/16" overhang I'd left around the edges of the aluminum panel and cleaned out the original spot welds on the angled part. Then scuffed the whole area with 180 on a palm sander and primed. Followed that with a skim coat of filler and blocked it out with 180. Will prime and block again before final paint. http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/f...ps0dcace39.jpg http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/f...ps8a6932d3.jpg |
2nd gen F body doors are long and heavy. Worn out hinge bushings and pins are common now that they're 35-45 years old. Mine were in good condition still because it was a low mileage car (42,000) when I got it and painted it the first time. Even now at 45 YO only the drivers side hinges showed slight wear when lifting up on the rear of the door. However I figured now's the time to replace them so there's no need to do it once painted and take a risk of scratching/chipping something. The original lower hinge bushings are plastic (really GM?) so no telling when they might split and fall out. Might be the day after paint. I'm sure there's a ton of How To's on hinge repair around the web so I'll skip the instructional rhetoric and just show a couple pics some might gain tips from.
http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/f...ps9d0099f9.jpg http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/f...psa7829aa7.jpg http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/f...ps718024a8.jpg http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/f...ps01d4abb0.jpg With the hinges replaced it was time to get the doors on and aligned. I was then reminded of the door gap anomaly on the drivers side of almost every early 2nd gen Firebird I've seen. It appears that the door skin wasn't shaped quite right to the fender curve above the door handle part. Welding a piece of rod to the edge of the door and filing/smoothing to create the curve didn't seem like a good use of time to me so I used a little filler in the rear quarter door jamb to even the gap a bit and then did some filing, sanding, priming, etc. to get the gaps on both doors good enough for me on this car. Are they perfect? No, but they're acceptable to me and probably better overall than when the car was new. After final priming/blocking they will be a little better than you see in the pics below. Yes, I know the horizontal body line is off in the pics below. Previous blocking was done with the door just roughly in place with the old hinge bushings. It'll be straight after some more blocking and final priming/blocking. http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/f...ps33e2a952.jpg http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/f...pscbe4b77a.jpg Since this was an AC car and I've removed the HVAC the vacuum operated fresh air air duct on the passengers kick panel is no longer functional. I will be blocking off the upper cowl where air is supplied to increase downforce so there won't be anything to feed the duct. I'm also trying to recover the 200 lbs. I added with the roll cage so every little bit helps. The vent duct housing/door/vacuum canister assembly probably weighs a couple lbs. more than the aluminum panels I made to seal off the duct opening and it will get seam sealed when installed so I won't get any wind whistles etc. Drivers side duct opening was sealed by the factory with seam sealer to the plastic kick panel and is getting sealed with an aluminum panel also to increase fire protection. I know the aluminum isn't as much of a fire block as steel but risk of fire entering there is low and so I just figured the aluminum would be better than plastic. http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/f...psa7a9e2e8.jpg |
The early 2nd gen Trans Ams had cool looking front air dam fender flares from the factory. Most got smashed eventually on tall curbs, steep driveways and other road hazards so they usually need some repair and both of my front wheel flares were cracked in the usual locations. They were cracked when I got them 20+ years ago and I used some type of epoxy to "fix" them as well as I could with what was available to me at the time. They lasted probably 10 or so years before the cracks reappeared. Now we have other methods available so here's my 21st century repair.
Sanded the flares down to plastic. Hot stapled the cracked areas. Clipped staples off and ground down the stubs below finish level. Applied adhesion promoter and then 3M hard plastic repair material and let cure 24 hours. Sand plastic repair material and prime, fill nicks, then sand/prime till ready for sealer. http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/f...ps7df52f53.jpg http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/f...ps2ef7da4b.jpg http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/f...ps430344ae.jpg http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/f...psdf141f83.jpg http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/f...psb003df13.jpg http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/f...ps18ca3516.jpg http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/f...ps267cd5c9.jpg http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/f...ps6d358dcf.jpg http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/f...psb6e018a6.jpg |
Once most of the wheel flares were in final primer I moved on to some of the (many) other exterior pieces that needed to be prepped for body color. Early 2nd gen TA's have a lot of small parts that get paint and is why shops want more to paint them than many other cars from the late 60's -early 70's. On top of that, the first time I painted a lot of the parts that were chrome from the factory and now they all needed to be strripped and prepped as well. The fiberglass rear panel needed some structural repairs as well.
http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/f...pszojhbuml.jpg http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/f...psgtdqglus.jpg http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/f...ps8r1qqmue.jpg http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/f...psn6c15xuf.jpg http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/f...ps7zdggbck.jpg |
Although I seem to be adding more weight than I'm getting rid of during this project I keep looking for things to put on a diet. The AC equipped 2nd gens had a vacuum operated fresh air duct in the passengers kick panel. Since I blocked off the openings in the sheet metal behind the kick panels I cut out the plastic duct and eliminated it along with the vacuum diaphragm etc. then made an oval plastic block off panel similar to the factory one on the drivers side and attached it with plastic adhesive saving a couple lbs.
Next topic up, subframe modifications. http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/f...psjsiy7enn.jpg http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/f...psoy1oux9l.jpg http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/f...pswudulskn.jpg |
I'm enjoying all this detail, John. Thanks for taking the time to write it and post it.
You're very correct about taking your time with the transition areas on a car. I look into jambs and all areas of the car to see how it was painted. It's such a let down to see a great paint job only on the outside of the car. Good luck! Oh, and my car's doors don't follow the contour of the quarter panel either. My front fenders at the top don't transition from the hood to door properly as well. I'm not looking forward to making those areas look correct. Luckily, I don't have the folded jambs at the rear of the doors to deal with. |
Great update! Thanx for all of the information...
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Thanks guys! I'll continue bringing this thread up to date.
Earlier in this thread I put the front of one bird on the unibody of another to get a subframe to replace mine. There are two basic subframes for 2nd gen F bodies, one pre and one post catalytic converter to accommodate the changes in the floor pans necessary for the different exhaust. I'm attempting to use a frame from the last year of the 2nd gen production run in a first year car so there were also several other changes made by the factory along the way including a switch to metric fasteners. The old thinking was that a late frame doesn't fit in an early car which it doesn't as built by the factory. However as parts for these cars slowly become more scarce others will find themselves in the position I did. Need a different subframe and none available locally (at the time) that are an exact replacement. Since upwards of 200,000 Firebirds were made every year near the end of the run (nevermind Camaros) the late frames are easier to come by and I suspect others will also want to use one to replace an early one so hopefully this will help some folks. I'm going to show modifications I've made so I can use the late frame as well as some things I've done to make the frame "better" for my application in my opinion. I'll cover each area of the frame in a different post. My first task was to be sure the used subframe was square and get some measurements to see if I could make this attempt. I used a couple different Tram Gauges to make sure the frame was square and take measurements comparing the original frame with the newer one so I would know what changes I would need to make. The body mounts for the rear of the frame are farther back in the early frames so next I marked where the frame needed to be drilled out using the Tram Gauge to transfer the measurements from the old frame. This can all be done with my simple telescoping Tram Gauge and a ruler but I also had a new fancy shmancy really long one with measuring and level features a buddy let me try out. If anyone wants one of the basic ones like I have I can get ya one for $100.00 + shipping from a guy I know who makes them. They're powdercoated/stainless construction and function fine. http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/f...pswrjxp63y.jpg http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/f...psttlb9owz.jpg http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/f...psqhkt6o02.jpg[/QUOTE] |
The first step is to drill out the new body mount holes with a 1 1/2" hole saw and then open them up a bit more to 1 5/8" with a carbide bit on a die grinder.
http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/f...psivkrv5va.jpg You can see in the pic below that a solid body mount won't sit flat inside the frame because of the sheet metal overlap where the frame is welded together. To fix that problem and strengthen the frame I modified some big washers to be welded in later. a small part of the frame end on one side also had to be trimmed out to allow the subframe connector to slide in later. http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/f...psm0krwuaa.jpg http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/f...ps1hko6htk.jpg http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/f...psbphm4zyw.jpg |
The next item on the agenda for this area is the subframe connector fitment. The SFC's I have are old NMW products from the early 90's and aren't nearly as nice or effective as many of the current offerings. However, I already have them and am waaay over budget so they're going back on and I'll modify things so they're as usweful as I can make them.
The SFC's have a sheet metal part that slides into the subframe as seen below. My feeling is that they could be made stiffer by adding a thick keyed washer to help stiffen them, apply even pressure over a wider surface and clamp them square to the inside of the subframe (where I put the modified washers). The subframe and connectors will be mounted to the car then the washers in the connectors will be tack welded in place. Then the connectors removed to fully weld the reinforcing washers into the connectors. The connectors will be bolted in during this build and I expect sometime later down the road I'll install more modern connectors. http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/f...pszwak3jln.jpg http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/f...psm0kzhopj.jpg http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/f...psjnn2komp.jpg http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/f...psmu3dbzrn.jpg |
Now you've probably noticed the deep keyhole in the frame that goes far enough to allow the installation of body mounts in the forward location used by the later cars. I didn't like the look of that strength wise while also thinking it would/could allow some twisting of the subframe. So I decided to add some metal to that section of the frame and kinda got carried away. I boxed the whole section figuring I might as well since I had everything out to do it. Someone with a car only used on the street could just make a plate to eliminate the deep keyhole and be more than good but I'm planning on serious power later and use the car for the strip, road tracks, and hope to attempt 200 MPH at land Speed Races. So I decided overkill is better for me.
http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/f...pstj13vnxo.jpg The pieces to box the frame were made with the same thickness steel as the original frame and were cut out on a band saw. Then they were drilled for plug welds in areas I knew would have good frame contact and provide strength. Once fitment was determined I removed the pieces and welded the modified washers into the frame, ground them flat, and welded the box pieces on the frame. http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/f...ps253cd05m.jpg http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/f...ps1fk3myfh.jpg http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/f...psmummosfx.jpg http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/f...pso9fbsv5p.jpg http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/f...psr6tsgrwv.jpg With the washers welded in and the frame boxed I then drilled out the new top plate where the body bushings fit. I will trim the body mount between the unibody and frame to make up for the added thickness by boxing the frame. Next topic, subframe/cowl body mounts. http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/f...psnlzvpjs4.jpg http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/f...psx3shlwyc.jpg[/QUOTE] |
The body mount brackets welded to the subframe under the cowl have gotten rusty and thin on a lot of 2nd gens over the past 35-45 years. A thick washer modified to fit in the bracket thats plug welded with a couple beads along the sides will stiffen it up. Many of the 2nd gens had no brace for the cowl mount bracket, however WS6 cars had a short brace that attaches to the frame rail and bracket adds strength and some Camaros had a bracket that went from frame rail to body mount bracket to engine crossmember. The frame I'm using was from a WS 6 car so I have the short brackets but I may try the longer Camaro brackets or make my own once the engine is in place and I can check for header clearance.
Frame on the right in the first pic below had a washer welded in previously where the bracket had rusted quite a bit. On the left is my new frame and you can see even though the frame itself has no rust the area where the original body mount was is pitted. http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/f...psae2cff17.jpg http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/f...ps0a335d94.jpg http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/f...ps409fbdcb.jpg http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/f...psdac51d48.jpg |
14 Car
John,
Have you every thought of attaching the cage down to the subframe and subframe connectors??? my connectors and rollbar are all bolted in but very close to each other.. been thinking of tying the two together to get things more rigid Bob |
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This car kinda evolved slowly over the years after I first got it back around '90 and I didn't do a full restoration initially. Tying the cage into the front and rear frames, adding a knee bar, and a fuel cell with it's own cage may be something I'll do in the future but for now I just want to get back on track. It's been 5 years since I took apart a perfectly good car and I'm regretting taking it apart. It'll be really nice, but I can't have those years back I could have been out enjoying it. |
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I completely understand about scope creep adding time to a project, I've done the same thing before. Sadly, I also have a friend building a twin turbo Trans Am that will probably never see the pavement because of scope creep. Ironically the two most fun cars I've ever built were done with a notepad full of notes before a single bolt was turned. I was on a super tight budget and kept the attitude that anything that came up and wasn't part of the original project (while I'm here upgrades, other people's ideas, etc.) would not even be entertained until the next phase. The next phase was only to be thought about after the car was back on the road. I love the tutorials on how your updating everything, I do the same thing. This helps people understand normal people like us can build cool cars at home if they can't afford a big name shop. |
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I build cars for others so I might not be quite as "normal" as my thread might appear because I usually keep other peoples projects, parts, etc. out of pics. I think the only car I've done for a member here was a 69 Camaro a couple years ago. While his car went from shell to complete in a year or so my car is still apart, like a plumber with a dripping faucet ahahaha. I had a customer ship down a car almost just like mine a couple weeks ago. It was here for a complete suspension swap, steering replacement, body mounts, frame connectors etc. He wanted me to drive it for a couple hundred miles before shipping it back and was nice enough to give me permission to do some aero testing with it. As you'll see later in the thread my car's getting quite a bit of aero work so testing with his car gave me a good baseline since it's the same ride height, tires, etc. but with the stock body. Everyone likes pics so here's a couple of those cars then I'll get back to bringing my thread up to date. http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/f...MVC-035F-3.jpg http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/f...ps02836b24.jpg http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/f...ps8309dce6.jpg http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/f...pslrtvi7sc.jpg |
NOTE: The work done in the post below was done quite a while ago and things have changed since that time. The car is now sponsored by PTFB so the stock arms etc. will all be replaced later in the thread. Also doing this prompted me to start a company that makes sub frame repair/upgrade pieces as well as some other things. So now I sell kits to do things like the LCA reinforcement.
.................................................. ................................................. The lower control arm mounting points holes in the 1st and 2nd gen frames are often worn or damaged. The design really isn't very good IMO. Forces from cornering, bumping parking blocks, hitting potholes, etc. is transferred to the frame through the LCA bolts to the edges of the holes in the sheet metal the frame is stamped out of. Thats not much surface area and making it worse the bolts are shouldered on one side but the other side of each bolt just has the tips of the threads hitting the frame. Since the bolts are hardened steel they deform the holes in the softer metal of the frame ovalizing them. I see it a lot on 2nd gens and since the 1st gens did the same thing I'm surprised the engineers at GM didn't come up with something better for 2nd gens. Now some of us put stiffer springs, tubular control arms, solid bushings, wider modern sticky tires, and big fat sway bars on the car and then take the car out for spirited driving, auto-X, and even road track use. The force on the thin sheet metal bolt holes in the frame far exceeds what the engineers had in mind. Heck, radial tires weren't even standard on most American cars yet when the suspension was originally designed. If the LCA mounting holes are ovalized (or you want to reinforce them) a piece of thick steel with a hole drilled in it or a thick washer(s) can be welded to the frame. Welding something to the frame should also reduce flexing theoretically allowing our cool new suspension & tires to perform their best. When possible, I like to use a long piece of all thread rod with nuts through the frame to line up the holes of the washers or metal being welded and hold them tight to the frame to tack weld in place. Then remove the rod and fully weld. If a rod won't slide through all 4 holes on one side because of crossmember interference I'll bolt the control arm in place with the pieces to be welded, tack in place, remove arm and then fully weld. On the frame I'm currently preparing (81 subframe into a 70) I wanted to strengthen the frame, reduce flex, and reduce wear as much as possible within my budget. To complicate things I want to use my old control arms with the 1/2" bolts in a frame made for the larger diameter metric bolts. Here's the 2 different bolts I'm aware of, Metric 81 on the left and 1/2" on the right. In the next pic note the shoulder where the frame sits on one side while the other side is on the bolt threads. Really GM? Couldn't think of a better way after seeing it didn't work well for the 1st gens? http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/f...ps35680ae1.jpg http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/f...pscfb6fda1.jpg So here's my plan for the current project where the LCA attaches. This will reduce the holes to 1/2", stiffen the area, and hopefully prevent ovalizing. 1. 1/2" ID 2 1/2" OD body washers 1/8" thick to stiffen the frame. Some are cut and bent to fit and welded into place. 2. 1/2" grade 8 bolts with a shank section about 3 3/8". The long shank section will keep the threaded part from transferring the shear forces to the edge of the frame sheet metal. New tapered thread locknuts will be used for final assembly, regular nuts for mock up etc. are seen in the pics below. Keep in mind kids those factory tapered thread locknuts are considered single use fasteners and should be replaced if removed. 3. 1/2" grade 8 washers welded to each other and welded to the big washers will take the forces that originally went to the edge of the frame sheet metal. This will spread out the force because the combined thickness of the washers is greater than the frame sheet metal. Also, because of the longer shank section both sides will have full contact rather than one side putting the force on the thread tips. With the large washers and 3 of the grade 8's on each side the nuts won't bottom on the shank when tightened. Grade 8 washers are being used because they are made to closer tolerances than cheap washers and fit the bolt shank tighter. I'm aware they'll lose their heat treating when welded. Since I'm switching from the metric size frame holes to the smaller 1/2" holes there's a slight movement before everything is welded. I'll pull the LCA So any slight change in position will give me a little extra positive castor. I'll do some more weld grinding and polishing before sandblasting so the frame is pretty for body color paint. Next post is upper control arm/shock mount modification. http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/f...ps92a49c1d.jpg http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/f...ps9404506a.jpg http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/f...ps01325c10.jpg |
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Upper control arm/shock brackets got trimmed where the bracket hangs over the outside of the frame rail then bent to the rail and welded across between the factory welds. The increased stiffness ar added strength advantage is probably debatable but in theory it should be a bit more durable, removes a little weight, and looks cleaner (although you can't see it under stock upper arms).
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The donor 80 bird had taken a punch in the nose at some point in time that had stretched the slotted bumper bracket holes in the sub frame. I put a hydraulic cylinder in the frame and massaged the metal back into place with a BFH. In the first pic you can see the piston in the frame for support behind the hole on the right thats been straightened quite a bit already. Without the support inside the frame the area around the stretched area would cave in if I just started smacking it in with a hammer, it would work, but the bumper brackets might be harder to adjust later.
http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/f...psqoiatkzg.jpg http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/f...psdbfhd5qz.jpg http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/f...psqerr0ccd.jpg With the frame ready for mock up and the unibody (except splash pan) in the final coat of PPG K38 primer it was time to get the body off the rotisserie and onto some wood cribs. Then I spun the body around to roll the subframe into place, took some measurements, and then set it straight with the body before snugging up the body mount bolts. Next I started hanging suspension parts so I'll have enough weight on the front to get the rear suspension, axle, and wheels installed so that I can use wheel cribs and go-jacks under it. The rotisserie lifts cars much better than lowering them so it's easier for me to just use my jack cribs to get it off. I made some special cribs to fit on top of the go jacks so that I can use the wheel cribs on the go jacks which roll soooo nice. With the car being as stiff as it is because of the cage I've found it's more stable to have the car on 3 stacks when it's not fully loaded with weight especially if I'm going to roll it around. Once it's where I want I take out the go jacks and put it on 4 stacks of cribs. http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/f...psh5gex9tt.jpg http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/f...pslgmuztox.jpg http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/f...psy5z2ncfh.jpg http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/f...ps0jkwtrv8.jpg[/QUOTE] |
After test fitting the subframe to make sure the body mounts lined up properly I cut down the body mounts for the rear of the subframe to make up for the metal I added boxing the frame where the rear body mounts are. The thickness of the metal boxing the frame isn't really thick but this will keep the subframe from tipping up and raising the radiator support.
http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/f...pslhcjswii.jpg http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/f...psn6qweccx.jpg Once the cut down body mounts were in place I laid out the chassis/suspension components and started mocking up all the components. The plan is to assemble most of the suspension and front end sheetmetal. Then once everything is in place the doors and front end sheetmetal can be aligned and blocked sanded before final primer. Then everything will be taken apart so the subframe and most of the components can be painted. First time it's been back on 4 wheels in a few years! http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/f...ps9seyfywq.jpg http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/f...psoljbtu3w.jpg http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/f...ps3xqmblpz.jpg http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/f...psre00p9xs.jpg http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/f...psirndmg45.jpg http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/f...ps6vzj1nvk.jpg[/QUOTE] |
Great thread. Thanks for sharing everything.
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I build / update stuff for people from time to time but it isn't a job or business. I'm selective about projects I take on due to space and time limitations. All my work is done in my small detached workshop by me alone. It's still awesome that you're sharing this how and why stuff. I also share what I know and do, but too many people won't share. The hobby will die if no one shares knowledge. This forum is actually really good about sharing stuff. I would share my current build, but it isn't the type of car that would really fit in on this forum. It's not a road course / auto cross car, I just want it to handle well if I were to enter an event but it's really a street car with some cool stuff on a 1960's body. |
Thanks Flash!
gofastwithclass, Thanks also and you should start a thread about your car. At least post a couple pics and description so folks can see what you've got if they look up your previous posts. I'm curious, whatcha got? On with updating!!! |
While cleaning and prepping the rear swaybar for install I remembered I wanted to post about reuse of locking fasteners.
Lock washers, nylock nuts, tapered thread nuts, and other locking fasteners work best the first time they're used and in many cases are considered single use fasteners. I see far too many instances where people building/rebuilding cars remove and reinstall these types of fasteners over and over to the point the fastener has no locking effect before the car ever hits the road. Then when the car starts being used various things start loosening up. For a rebuild like this one I lay out all the parts. Then I take one of each locking fastener and tag it as to where it goes and how many I need, go to Fastenal, hardware store, Home Depot or wherever and buy all new fasteners. When I get them, I bag and tag them to be used during final install. It's cheap insurance that I won't be sidelined in the middle of an event or stranded roadside. I don't replace all the hardware, only the locking pieces. In the last pic you can see there's two nylock nuts on the bottom of the shock absorber. I run two different rear ends, one for drags and one for high speed. I'd swapped the rear a couple times and removed the shocks for clearance (reusing the nylock nut) and then during a track session at Road Atlanta I heard a clunking in the rear. So I got off track and pitted only to discover the nylock nut had backed off. Simple fix once I found another nut and just double nutted it, however it cost me most of a track session so probably a couple hundred bucks in track time when all the expenses of a track day are considered. Been double nutted since but getting new nylock nuts for the bottoms of the shocks now. When I installed the Hotchkis suspension the first time (long ago) I reused the tapered thread nuts that hold the upper control arms to the frame mounts. Took the car to a shop for alignment then took the car on vacation from CT to FL. When I got to FL I heard a clunk in the front end entering a parking lot. Not only had a nut backed off but the alignment shims were gone! Yay! Got to pay for another alignment. So, learn from my mistakes and don't reuse locking fasteners. http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/f...pshz42rzel.jpg http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/f...psbdslskp8.jpg http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/f...psvinh7mgg.jpg http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/f...psmku9ngc6.jpg[/QUOTE] |
With the subframe and suspension in place so the car could sit on four wheels it was time to start fitting sheet metal. Trunk lid was first up and with some tweaking the new (used) lid lines up nicely. So I moved on to the front end where my first task was to figure out if the 81 subframe would work with the 70 core support.
The later frame mounting holes for the core support are farther apart than on the early frame and the directions for the PTFB solid body mounts say they can't be used with the 70-73 Firebird core supports. BUT, I paid for the solid mounts and I'm using them! I marked and opened up the body mount holes in the subframe to fit the sleeves that come with the PTFB solid mounts. While opening up the holes for the solid mounts I found that the bushings wouldn't sit flat inside the frame rail because of the way the frame is made (like the rear most body mounts) so I welded in some sheet metal pieces I made. http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/f...pswiixdh5d.jpg http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/f...pse2qcwf0z.jpg http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/f...psddqayxpy.jpg Next used my tram gauge to measure and mark the core support for the new body mount location and larger diameter. Then opened up the holes in the core support for the mounts. I made the holes slightly bigger than necessary to allow a bit of side to side and fore/aft adjustment of the core support. I had poly body mounts previously I installed back in the 90's. At the time I used a 1/2" thickness bushing between the frame and core support as instructed. I always had a lot of shim stacks to get good fender/bumper/hood gaps and so I'm test fitting the body panels with the thick 1" bushing between the frame and core support to see if things fit well with them (if not I'll switch to the 1/2" and test fit again). If the 1" bushing doesn't work out I'll come back and modify this post. http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/f...psgh1xetwn.jpg http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/f...psewdhaxqr.jpg |
]After deciding the solid mounts can and will be used for the core support I enlisted my buddy Jeff to give me a hand installing the fenders etc. and starting to line things up so I can do blocking on the doors, hood, and fenders before the final coat of primer.
http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/f...pshbyvn0eo.jpg With the sheet metal roughly in place and waiting on some new bolts for the bumper I mounted the tall rear spoiler I'd roughed in a while back so I could sand it in place on the car and get the pieces uniform and contoured nicely. In the top pic pic (before being installed for sanding) you can see where the fiberglass was added and about how much taller this spoiler will be compared with the original. The idea being to make it fatter than it needs to be, then sand till it looks right to me, then a skim coat of filler and block sand till straight/smooth, then prime/block/prime. I'll also be mounting up my old rear spoiler for the same procedure and will keep it the stock size so I have my choice of regular spoiler or spoiler on steroids for track use. Last pic shows a guide I made to get the spoiler height uniform and curved like the decklid, sticky sandpaper is used on the plywood part. http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/f...psyvjyb63p.jpg http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/f...psluiinu5r.jpg http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/f...psrbtehd38.jpg[/QUOTE] |
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The plan is improved handling and ride that will be driven (and beaten on) cross country at any random point with new car reliability. That is an excellent tip on the fasteners. One of the places to save money on a car is not in fasteners. The spoiler is looking great. Very nice job getting the height you need and keeping a factory look for the uninitiated. Your thread is giving me some really good ideas. Thanks again. |
I'm curious to see how the spoiler turns out. That's something I've thought of doing in the future. Thanks for the updates John.
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The rear spoiler is a focal point on a lot of 2nd gen F bodies and very easy to see. Since they're 35-45 years old now most have deformed or been damaged over time. The plastic slowly drying out and shrinking causes them to become wavy and crack. Some are worse than others of course and I'm lucky the two I'm working with were in pretty good condition to start with. The tall one I'm making was from a 76 and needed some stripped threads repaired and missing studs replaced so I welded some small washers on 1/4" X 20 threaded rod and made several replacement studs (since I couldn't buy any locally). While I was making them I made the threaded part that screws into the spoiler a little bit longer to grab virgin threads at the bottom of the holes. Several drops of fiberglass resin in the holes before installing the new studs carefully and problem solved. Next issue with spoilers is getting them to line up as well as we'd like. Often we're dealing with used or aftermarket quarters, deck lids, tail panels etc. which may not be the same as original. Our standards for panel alignment and gaps has raised quite a bit over the years since these cars were new and even when new the alignment/gaps weren't all that great from the factory. Here's my way of bringing old rear spoilers back to usable condition with better fitment and gaps than stock. I'm sure others have different ways of accomplishing the same goal and there's more than one right way to do things. Strip the spoiler with 80 grit and clean old paint, sealers etc off the inside of the spoiler around the mounts and pads it sits on where it meets the body. Then install center section on trunk lid (trunk lid aligned previously). Clean old paint, sealers etc off the inside of the spoiler where it meets the body. If the mounts on the inside of the spoiler have to be modified by grinding a little off so the spoiler sits nice, so be it. Also, the holes in the decklid may need to be ovalized a bit to get the center section where you want it. Once happy with the center section, snug up the nuts on the ends to hold it in place. Then install end caps and see if you can get them lined up pretty well with the center section with the nuts snug. Again, may need to slot holes or modify the inside of the spoiler cap so it sits nice on the fender. Be patient, take your time and shuffle the pieces a little one way or another to get the pieces to sit as nice as possible on the sheetmetal and have the best gaps. If necessary move the center section a little and try again, when satisfied tighten the nuts. Then... The ends of the caps and center section have often been sanded for previous repaints and the plastic has shrunk and deformed so after 35-45 years they're usually not very flat anyway. Apply a coat of your favorite body filler over the gaps between the end caps and the center section, don't try to fill the entire void, just bridge the gap. Ya, I know, it just seems wrong. Then use a hacksaw to cut a slot centered where you'd like the center of the finished body gap between the center section and end caps to be. Next use a thin file like a saw and cut the gap wider. Then use thicker and thicker files to widen the gap till it looks the way you want. Using the files keeps the slot straight and even because they don't flex much. If you want to move the gap a bit one way or another just apply pressure to the file as you're cutting with it. Once you've got the gap where you like it open the trunk and apply filler to the voids on the ends where the filler used to bridge the gap didn't go. Then close trunk and use the file again, repeat as needed till the ends just have little voids and pinholes in the bondo. http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/f...psrseyplp2.jpg http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/f...psyz5ldb0i.jpg http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/f...psbauskiaw.jpg http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/f...ps7oabplke.jpg Because the spoiler plastic has shrunk, warped etc. over the years They're not straight anymore. At a minimum they'll need high build primer and block sanding. I'd hoped that would be all I needed to do for the one below but as you can see after some blocking on the one in the pic below I've already cut through the primer to the plastic and haven't even removed the guide coat in the low areas where the mounts hold the spoiler to the car. This was on a spoiler that spent 99% of the last 25 years in a garage since I did the car the first time. I've seen the same pattern before and apparently the mounts pull enough so the spoilers deform as the plastic gets old. The cure is to skim coat the whole spoiler with filler (front and back) then block sand the filler with the spoiler attached to the car so you can have the center section line up with the end caps by sanding across the gap. then prime/block/prime using a guide coat till you're happy. http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/f...psx2bi8dxt.jpg http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/f...ps2egplfwe.jpg Here's my tip for making a uniform edge where the spoiler flows into the decklid. A flat block with sticky sandpaper and a spacer to keep the block on the same angle as you slide across the spoiler. Don't forget tape so you don't mess up the trunk lid. http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/f...pswp4brt6e.jpg |
I've now got both spoilers in final primer and will move on to other things. When I mounted them to do my sanding etc. I mounted the stock spoiler forward and the tall spoiler slightly back so that the stock spoiler would always cover any foot print marks, or fade lines from having the tall one. The tall version is about 1 1/4" taller than stock and mounted to the car in the pics below where it will stay a while so I can admire it while doing other stuff ahahaha.
http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/f...apy/003-14.jpg http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/f...psgxhlvwij.jpg http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/f...psumajthan.jpg http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/f...pskqe4qxgc.jpg http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/f...psziniqqbj.jpg http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/f...psw4ehsaak.jpg[/QUOTE] |
With the spoilers in final primer I moved on to mocking up all the pieces of the tail panel and bumper to get the best fitment, gaps, etc.
I had my bumper welded up to eliminate the bolts and jack slots many many years ago. I took a used bumper (no repros available back then) that still had the mounting brackets attached to it and sent it to a shop where the brackets were tack welded to the bumper, the bolts removed, plates welded over the holes on the backside, and the bolt holes plug welded from the front. Then the bumper was sent for smoothing and rechroming. The bumper never really fit quite "right" due to the brackets being adjusted for the car it came off of and the ends had the side droop seen so often on 70-73's. So now was the time to fix things. I ended up making spacers and tack welding them to the bumper brackets to even up the gap along the back and modifying bolts and almost all the bolt holes so the ends can be adjusted properly during final assembly. http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/f...pslsynj3jd.jpg This is the rubber isolator often missing on the center bumper support bracket. Held on by 2 plastic T clips. http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/f...pssrlklxql.jpg Here's a tip for masking off an edge you can't cut easily with a single edge razor. Rub a file on the tape. http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/f...ps34a8kfbs.jpg You can see the spacers tack welded to the brackets to create an equal gap to the tail panel in the pic below. Car had no previous rear end damage and none of the sheet metal had been replaced and although the bumper itself had been repaired and replated at least once before I ever owned it it's pretty straight. So I have to assume the fit wasn't very good from the factory judging by the thickness of spacers required and other 70-73 birds I've seen and dealt with. http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/f...psytnwkopj.jpg http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/f...psecqa6mz8.jpg http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/f...psakmbaoex.jpg |
Back in the fall Holley introduced a new product at the SEMA show, the Holley Hydramat. It's a product that mounts in the bottom of a fuel tank and if the fuel in the tank touches any part of the Hydramat the fuel will be sucked in even if no gas is touching the rest of the hydramat. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfE1v65fNZI
Holley started shipping about a month ago so I ordered one and got it a couple weeks ago so I thought I'd show it here. Will post about it again when I get it set up in the tank. Cost of mine was a couple hundred bucks. Seems expensive but to save the same weight (on track) with lightweight parts would cost more This looked like a good product for me to try in my stock unbaffled gas tank until I can install a properly mounted and protected fuel cell. It'll allow me to save weight by keeping less fuel in the car on road courses without risking sucking air in high G corners, reduce the pendulum effect of fuel sloshing in the tank, be safer if there's a fire because less fuel in the car, and since it's also a filter I eliminate the canister fuel filter I've been using also saving weight. I got the magnet kit for mounting the mat in the tank and will need to install submersible fuel line instead of the stock tube and sock strainer in the tank. Holley makes other sizes and shapes of the mat as well as types of mounting setups for tanks made out of other materials. http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/f...pslhlre45z.jpg http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/f...psu2wxawst.jpg |
Back in the 70's when we ran air shocks with big and small tires on F bodies I always noticed the crappy job GM did on the pinchweld under the rear splash pan because the rear of the cars were jacked up. Well those fugly looking pinch welds are still there on most of the cars and haven't gotten any better. They got bent on ice mounds in the north, rusted, repainted without being sanded smooth or stripped, and so most look worse than they did from the factory. I'm going to make a rear diffuser for my car and folks will be looking under there taking pics etc. so I figured now's the time to even it up and make it more presentable and finished looking while getting the whole tail section in final primer.
So I gave myself a guideline and used a 4 1/2" cutoff disc to cut a thin slice off. Then ground it pretty even with a 4" grinder stone, filed it straight, and got rid of the sharp edges. http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/f...psualytad3.jpg http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/f...psjloo72dy.jpg |
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