Mark, any interest in the GRM Ultimate Track Car Challenge? I know the car wont be ready for this years event but maybe next year?

Ty who makes complete first gen carbon fiber clips?

I sold Red Devil because people are not as interested in a 3 year old car as they are a new build. I know it sucks but it is true. I was at the OUSCI last year and the design judge asked me "so, is this is the same car as last year?". I knew that was less style points. The magazines also want fresh cars (preferably not Camaros). Everyone expects me to build a new car better than the last.

Sorry I'm being a bit guarded on what is in the car but this is still a race and I do need to have a few tricks up my sleeve. I could be paranoid but I think people are gunning for me. :_paranoid

I could do an ultra light weight car that would be a track only car but I don’t want to own a car like that. I like to drive my car back and forth to work and on Hot Rod Power Tour if I wanted to. So things like side glass, sound deading, Air Conditioning, windshield wipers and a radio make it a “real” car. If I put the same time effort and money in a C-6 Corvette it would crush any Pro-Touring 1st Gen. Camaro. I know folks want to believe the their $100+K Pro Tour Camaro can whip a C-6 Z06 but it is hard to do as Danny Popp showed everyone. A late model Corvette has better: Aerodynamic, Center of Gravity, Weight Distribution, Polar Moment of Inertia, Track Width, Full sorted ABS, Traction Control. MR shocks, Air Conditioning, and you can buy one today that will kick most Pro-Tourings cars butt.

But I love old Camaros….I’ll keep trying to close the gap but it is hard. I do this as a hobby and for fun. I love designing new engine parts then running a engine on the dyno, sorting out shock valving, working on the technical issues on how to make ABS brakes work. This stuff is fun. With all the great products out there now from DSE and others these cars are fairly easy to build compared to 10 years ago. I’m sure someone will build an all carbon fiber, 2000lbs, AWD, 1200 HP Camaro someday and that will be very cool. It’s just beyond what I could do in my 3 car garage in my spare time.

When I was in college we had a competition called Formula SAE. OUSCI is like big boys and girls FSAE. We work on cars after class and on weekends for one race. Humm sounds like OUSCI but now we have work in place of classes. Formula SAE had a subjective engineer design portion; OUSCI has a subjective style portion. Formula SAE and OUSCI have track events. The big difference is FSAE and OUSCI both had one page of rules when it started. Now FSAE has about 20+ pages of rules…. So you folks wanting rules just look at FSAE.

Sorry that is off topic, but it is related to this build. My buddy in college who did the engine development on our FSAE car is the same guy doing my engine for this car: Dave Mikels. So there is a lot of continuity. Dave and I talked daily about our FSAE car in college and now we talk daily about OUSCI. Without Dave’s help I could not do well in OUSCI. On a side note on FSAE when I left University of Missouri - Rolla our next team caption for FSAE was Kyle Tucker…..Humm. Kyle is a great engineer and driver and he picked some or that up with FSAE.

These cars are more than the sum of their parts. It is the way they are tuned and tested that make the big difference. From 2010 OUSCI to 2011 OUSCI I shaved 3 seconds off my road course time with the same car with the same parts just by tuning it.

We should have the new engine on dyno next week. This is where the theory meets reality. Dave and I have modeled it and talked about it all winter. Now we will find out if it will make the numbers we think it will. This is fun stuff. I’ll never forget when Dave and I were in college and our FSAE engine cleared 100 HP in an open air dyno with no dyno cell. We sat 6 feet from it with no wall with it wailing at 10,000 RPM and the turbo system cherry red. As we spooled it up we could see our team mates backing up. People could hear it run all across campus on a Friday night. Good times. So when we fire up our latest creation it is the same but with bigger numbers and a wall.

Anyway I’ll drop some more information, maybe a rendering and a car name on this project soon. For now I just posted a few photos for fun and to get you guys talking.

Mark :lateral:

Very nice explanation, keep all your secrets guarded as you will :thumbsup:
Nice build, pixs when you can!

Well said Mark. :thumbsup:

Thought about you all weekend - every time I crested turn 5....:D

Good post Mark!

You might be able to call it a three car garage if you cram one car in sideways at the back. Two car is more like it.

I almost roll that Mustang one time and that's all people remember.

Mark

Good insite Mark.For the last 10 year's I have been involved w/the Kansas university FSAE team.Have been helping them W/ fabrication and welding design,I have learned alot and hopfully the student's have learned also.It has helped in my car building also.:thumbsup: Scott Mock.

Where are the pictures?

The thing with tuning is how much work did it take in that year to get that 3 seconds? I'm sure a ton.

Lots of interesting info there, thanks Mark.

that is NOT a third gear corner............ :lol:

Yes, but at least it was the out lap with Charley watching and you riding shot run. Sorry about that. Glad we didn't flip it. In my mind that was a slow third gear turn, I mixed it up with another turn. Very embarrassing. At least all my friends remember years later and still give me crap about it...

Mark :cheers:

It amazes me on what a little insite about someone can change your whole perspective on them. Thanks for sharing the back ground history. Didn't know you and Kyle went to school together.
On another note, yeah, Vettes are fast out of the box but where's the challenge in that.
And of course competitors are gunning for you. Thats just human nature. Who wouldn't want to have Stielow status. I'm pretty sure I speak for all when I say your the top guy among the Pro-Touring competition builds.
As far as the build goes, Im glad to hear you'll be putting sound deadener, AC, etc. All that stuff will add weight and slow you down. Who knows, I might see you at a track some day and I need every advantage I can get. :lol:

that's what friends do. :lol: Hey, I'll ride shotgun with you anywhere anytime. :drive: :brix:

I know right? I think it's funny when guys say that. It may be a car somewhere who can do it. But not near as many as some owners of classics might think. Maybe, someone with a 1000 hp/600tq. ft. lbs classic can beat a Z06 in a straight line, but at a track...don't see it.


This is true Mark when you are at the top of your game!! It appears you and your builds are what other guys seem to gauge their builds off of:thumbsup:

Talking about your experiences with FSAE for Mark, Scott, and Kyle brought back a lot of memories for me. I led the Iowa State FSAE engine team for a couple of years and worked on the first all aluminum race frame that our school had built (lots of tig welding and then heat treating)

That was a great time racing in Detroit on the autocross and getting the backstage tour of the factories. Ford machined us some billet aluminum parts in their prototype shop that we had broken and I was very impressed with the personnel and their knowledge.

Reading everyone's posts about the next event makes me really excited to get my Chevelle completed and appreciative of all the great information on this site.

Thanks
Doug

Fsae
 

Enjoyed the FSAE story. I watched my son as the chassis guy for a Texas A&M car one year that did well. His team was followed the next year by a car that did well too where the engine guy was named Horace......look what he has accomplished in a short amount of time.....Mast Motorsports.

Mark, thanks for talking a little about your past & perspective on why you are building Camaros the way you do. I think it is SO easy to get caught up in building a "competitive" car these days, but sacrifice too much. I commend you for striving to build the kind of car you will enjoy using, & still making it faster than the last one.

I'd like to ask you what is your opinion on hiding the ECM, ETC under the dash? I see in the last one you had a lot of that stuff in the engine compartment.
David

David

I hid the ECM and Fuse Panel on Jackass and it looked better but was a pain in the butt. I hate digging around under the dash. On Red Devil I wanted to get to stuff quickly because I knew I was going to track the car a lot. It worked great. I had the ECM out of that car at least 20 time for various reflashs or needing it to dyno another engine. No one said it looked bad most said it looked OE. One thing that we spent a lot of time on was the wiring on Red Devil. It was complicated, but due to a lot of forethought it looked great and work correct from the first turn of the key. I credit that to my buddy Ryan Kuhlenbeck who was super detailed on the wiring. I have a complete schematic of the harness down to what wire and color are in every connector. So later if you need to trouble shoot an issue you can go right to the connectors and check it out.

Good luck with the "Wife Beater" :lol:

Mark

The ECM is under the dash on Mary's Camaro along with the fuse box. I had to pull the fuse box out & fix a pulled out fuel pump wire when it wouldn't start the first time. Banging around under the dash isn't fun as I get older!
David

Sometimes I'll waste hours just looking at something trying to figure out the best location as far as accessibility, aesthetics, and function. Can be quite the pain in the ass.

So, here is THE most important questions of any build, what size and model of tires? Why not bigger and/or stickier? :thumbsup:

The "stickier" portion is regulated by the 200 treadwear limit for Optima. :thumbsup:

If you wanted to push against the status quo you could run the Dunlop Direzza Star Spec in 275/35/18 on all 4 corners, have a more balanced setup because of the square sizes, and you'd have more grip than a set of tires with with 130-160mm more total section width.

With the possibility of ABS on this car - what about using some of your GM access and add some accelerometers in there and gen up a stabili-trak system like the vette/caddy product.

Jim

99% sure it's lighter Jeff, but may not be significant savings; you can pick that thing up w your pinky. The opening is wider to support their wider radiator...

No matter what Mark decides, it will be awesome! I think the best part of this build is that its a 67' NOT a 69'. Hopefully will see some of his engineering marvels :hail: for us 67' camaro lovers.

Travis

We're saying the same thing Jeff. 12 lbs vs 17. 100lbs = - .10. Not significant, but light enough to pick up w your pinky. :thumbsup:

Would not worry to much about the weight savings guys. I know for certain there is not one of the fancy aluminum rad. support going in this car from what I've seen. Hopefully we can get some progress pic's of bodywork posted tonight. We have made great progress so far. :thumbsup: Joe

VanNus
 

Update from Paul and Joe, they are making great progress. Brian Thomson has my engine togther. Lots of fun stuff happening.

Only 24 weeks until SEMA......

Mark

Looking great Mark, so what is the first event you are going to? Hoping to be at? Somewhere in the Midwest I hope? :thumbsup:

Stance is :thumbsup:

Well the "Home Run" plan is to have the car at Holley's LS Fest in Sept. Looking at all the work that is a stretch goal. But it is a great event and I would like to be there. Paul and Joe are telling me I'll have the car back July 1. I'm taking two weeks’ vacation to hammer out the wiring and the plumbing then start assembling the car. With a lot of help from some key people I could make it. We'll see. I still have my day job and I’m getting to old for the “all nighters”…

The big critical part is the wiring. My projects are approaching a factory Corvette system for complexity and that is the long lead item for the assembly. Luckily I have my notes from Red Devil and we should be able to copy a lot of that.

I could have the car “running” at LS Fest and tell the magazines they can’t shoot it yet. That is an option. I took Red Devil to Motorstate a couple years ago just done and it was a fun event.

The big goal is SEMA. If we just test prior to SEMA and show up with the car there that could be the fall back plan.

Mark

Mark,:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Most people dream of getting their car in a magazine. You have to tell them not to put your car in a magazine. That's when you know "you're the man".

Mags
 

I didn't mean that the wrong way. I look at photos of Red Devil at Motorstate and I see all the stuff not done. I have had 4 photo shoots on that car and each one has more stuff done on the car. I'm not sure if people care but it bugs me. If some folks think it is cool to see the car half done I could bring it to a event "running" but not SEMA ready.

Mark

That beats "SEMA ready" but not running in my book any day!! :thumbsup:

imo you're far too critical of yourself Mark... but that's also what makes your builds so impressive!

I was just thinking that. Looks great.

Hey Mark I'm a little late to the thread, looking forward to seeing the car, a cool build as always.

Kevin