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could not have said it better. The Pres has a big problem on his hands but where to start.
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Ravenworks - Thank you Sir. :hail: |
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btw, nothing mentioned therein about one's right to hunt. |
Shootings...
While the gun debate heats up. There is another debate that is closer to my heart. The shooter was recognized as having Aspergers, a form of Autism. He also had some mental illness. I'm a father of 2 Autistic boys and have a close friend with a Highschool son with Aspergers. She is dealing with hatred already. I'm afraid for my kids as well. Please don't judge these children on an isolated event. My boys are very innocent and loving. My friend's son is a very good kid as well. Here is a statement from the Autism Society of Wisconsin's Facebook page....
On Friday, 27 people in Connecticut lost their life through the acts of a single person. These people were children, teachers, husbands, wives, mothers, fathers, brothers, and sisters. Today, their families are experiencing grief that cannot be described. Individuals impacted by Friday’s tragic shooting are in the hearts, thoughts and prayers throughout the Autism Society network. Many national media outlets are reporting that the shooter was autistic. While as of yet, this has not been officially documented, many newspapers and television outlets are stating that the individual who shot the children and teachers was autistic. And, in such reports, there is an implication that autism might have had an impact on the person's mindset in leading to the shootings. There is absolutely no evidence or any reliable research that suggests a linkage between autism and planned violence. To imply or suggest, as some are doing, that some linkage exists is wrong and harmful to the over 1.5 million law abiding, non-violent and wonderful individuals who live with autism each and every day. Stereotyping an entire group of individuals because of the actions of one is something is wrong and can't be accepted. We ask that people not judge any autistic person based on what is being said about the killer of the innocent children and teachers. Rather, we ask that we continue to put our nation's attention on being there for the children and teachers who were killed on Friday. |
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Ravenworks, well said. Thank you for your service and I agree with everything u said.
I am a father of three, all great kids, 22, 20, 18. We have high standards and high morals but not hard with discipline (we were both "belted/whipped). But discipline is needed, just not abuse. My oldest is a student in a doctorate program, wants to be an adolescent psychologist, there will be plenty of work for him as I see society "regressing forward".... |
I don't want to turn this tragic thread into a gun discussion....
But my feeling is that our founding fathers wanted the citizenry to have guns for defense - defense against tyranny - defense against their own government gone wild (tyranny) - defense against a militia turned against it's citizenry. The citizenry can't match muskets or Winchester 94's against todays high tech weaponry... Either from "friend" or foe... and while we can single out the "need" for these weapons as being the problem... I think the citizenry would have a far different thought -- if, or when, terrorists use a dirty bomb... or some other truly massive destructive device(s). This is where people are torn -- because we understand that it's the weapons in the hands of ordinary citizens that keep the country "safe" -- yet at the same time it's also these weapons that are being used to create such devastating carnage and tragedy. I'm not sure how we balance these but that's where we probably need to get to. |
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I did noticed at school today indifferent body language from a teacher that could have been a result of this news........can't blame them for being concerned. |
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Just a few of my thoughts. Maybe in some states it is TOO easy to buy them. I will admit they probably should tighten the noose there. Most guns are in hands that by law are not allowed to have them or people that do not respect them. During the first Obama presidential run gun sales went through the roof. It will most likely be the same in the coming months. My problem with the gun bans. They send money, energy and effort in the wrong direction. Spending money towards a gun ban bill is big money. Put it towards the real problem. Drunk driving we fix the sickness. We don't ban the vessel. There is no way gun control advocates will win. They may make it inconvienient but never a true victiory. Try a search on how much the NRA spends in political contributions. Now look to see how much money is raised for the fight with the anti gun contributers. The devotion for the sides are unbalance also. Gun control advocacy is strong during times where guns are used in a crime. Then slowly dies out a few weeks later. Pro gun people will fight till the bitter end. Gun buy back is high all over the country, but look to what is being returned. Large amount of turn in guns are pre 55 and probably just purchased a few days earlier from the local Big 5 for under a hundred bucks. I like this cause the people turning in these guys probably do not respect them in the first place. Guns not in safes and stored under the living room coffee table might as well be sent to the FBI's Mexican relief program. |
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And secondly, you are absolutely correct on the "problem", it IS a spiritual problem. |
Found this in an article today... about a kid that had "plans" to attack his school.
I thought it interesting that there was a quote from a legislator.... Some Oklahoma lawmakers, reacting to the Connecticut shooting, called Monday for allowing teachers and school administrators to carry firearms on school campuses. Rep. Mark McCullough, R-Sapulpa, said he is working on a bill that would allow teachers and school administrators to receive firearms training through the Council on Law Enforcement Education and Training, which would authorize them to carry weapons at school and at school events. "It scares me that a madman could come into my children's school and kill my children," said McCullough, who has two boys, ages 7 and 9. "We need to harden these targets, harden these facilities with simple, common-sense steps. |
Some states already have carry able teachers. I have mixed feelings about this. Like unarmed guards in a prison wing. You hate to see it but the chances for a bad guy to get his hands on it is high too.
I hope they get Magpul combat training and be able to hold a carry license. |
An interesting bunch of statistics on guns in this country:
http://nbcpolitics.nbcnews.com/_news...n-america?lite |
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What video game did Charles Whitman play in the 1960s before killing 16 people? Google for a list of school shootings (or massacres, they are nearly one and the same). You'll find a list that extends hundreds of years, where people including kids killed someone at their school. Have we been on a decline that long, since basically the country was created? Or has it been the case that damaged people have existed and will continue to exist, and that their access to high powered guns has simply increased, meaning as a group it's a lot easier to kill whole groups of people very quickly? I'm not saying that's the only issue in play here but it's certainly one of them. |
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Interesting data. If the US restricted only cheap Asian imports I imagine it would have a major impact on the total number of weapons. I see no need to sell junk weapons at Walmart pricing thus affordable to everyone. That alone would be one effective gun control measure. |
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Please don't take this negatively against your boys. I just wanted to point out that some autistic kids are violent by nature depending on the degree. |
I'd still argue that controlling "guns" isn't going to solve the problem... when we can't control the PEOPLE that wield them.
When you read the first couple of lines in that article --- there's more guns in the USA than there are people! So it seems to me to be an already impossible task to put controls on something where you really have no control. I do agree that there's a reason we aren't all allowed to have machine guns... and that high powered semi-automatics with huge magazines are a "problem" - but given the millions of these things in circulation (I own 3 myself!) how do we go about keeping them out of the wrong hands? There's so many ways to get hold of these and no registration or laws etc are going to affect someone bent on killing innocent people. I still think it's a knee jerk, reactionary, feel good, kind of thinking that doesn't solve anything. One of my police buddies stopped last night - he'd been to Wades (a shooting range/gun store) and every semi-auto AR 15 style rifle they had was sold out as of Monday morning. Why? Because people fear they'll be banned.... OMG!! So because of this talk -- they'll sell millions more!! Now what good has that done and what has it solved? You know -- the funny thing is -- I'm not even a gun fan! But I have CC permits in two states -- have a safe (burglary and fire safe!) where they are stored (and the ammo and the magazines!). Is that because I'm afraid for my life? No -- I'm afraid they'd get into the wrong hands! So I do everything I can to keep them safe. I read a statistic this week that said 60% of Americans own guns... 60%! Holy cow. My guess is that about 10% are hunters. |
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My friend who has a son with Aspergers found this. Here 18 year old son is already getting shunned at school. This sickens me. People need to educate themselves. http://shine.yahoo.com/parenting/why...164900109.html |
Those are/ were EXACTLY my thoughts and I realize this is a very sensitive subject. Imagine being a 17 year old boy that can't go out with friends, go to college, have a girlfriend, on top of the communication... I've expressed that to his Dad. In fact, I talked to him about it 2 weeks ago. Kelli has autistic kids at school and they can be violent. It's like anything else in life, in the right circumstance, bad things can happen.
In the instance I'm talking about, I am genuinely worried about him getting his hands on a gun. He's a frustrated/violent kid and I'm not sure of his awareness of right and wrong. I've known him since he was 6 years old. |
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In ACTUAL FACT ---- if you read the article I posted --- there is FAR more access to guns in general and the murder rate has FALLEN at the same time. I'm not saying I'm for more guns or anything of the kind -- I'm just saying that the FACTS don't hold water when relating homicides and the plentiful supply of weapons. A quick copy and paste from the article.... The rate of firearms-related murders in 2011 was 3.2 per 100,000 people – a sharp decline from 1993 when the rate of firearms-related murders was 6.6 per 100,000 people. The number of firearms-related murder victims dropped from more than 17,000 in 1993 to 9,903 in 2011. The article points to two manufacturers whose sales have risen 200% or more --- so SALES of weapons have obviously risen at the same time as the murder rate has dropped in half. If they were directly related - we'd see both numbers rising or falling. But here, clearly - one has doubled - and one was cut in half. |
There are just bad poeple in this world also. Unfortunately there is no real way to stop these things from happening. i'm not saying do nothing, but poeple will find a way to kill poeple, be it with a gun or a knife or fertilizer.
There are no simple answers. |
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(this is NOT directed to anyone here!, just my opinion of a nation influenced so strongly by media) Jeff- |
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As far as the number of guns going up and crime going down, I didn't even mention that because I don't see how it's relevant. Your belief Greg is apparently that because the number of guns has risen, the volume of gun crime has dropped. I doubt anyone could prove that, and I can offer quite a few other possible reasons. Let's see, longer minimum sentences mean that repeat offenders are in jail and thus not on the street to shoot people. More law enforcement means less crime, or at least people are caught earlier and therefore go to jail on those minimum sentences and so forth. I agree 100% with the title of the article. Gun control offers no cure-all. You can't ban assault rifles and high capacity clips and think it will go away, but as part of a comprehensive approach to combating violence like the shooting. |
lets see there was one in china last friday(knife i believe). the columbine idiots had made home made bombs. WTH is flimsy.
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The checks and balances in CT on firearms is among the best in the US. With that said it wasn't good enough. I think there is more on the ammunition and accessories side that should be done.
Why not the same background check on any ammunition purchases over 50 rounds? Why not limit the high capacity mags and or have the same waiting period and background check? The ammunition and accessories are far to easy to get a hold of. Everyone who purchases firearms legally now use either a Drivers, hunting, or conceal carry licenses. I for one won't mind waiting an extra couple minutes when i purchase my rounds or next magazine. I'll again add an additional perspective, I just saw half my graduating class at services today. Just an terrible way to catch up friends. I also encountered the media when I was walking to my car. I was trying not to make eye contact with him but he approached my none the less. He asked if he could ask me a question and I just looked at him with utter disgust. Showing pictures of kids lined up at a funeral home is just wrong. Nick |
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When someone can show me that banning something ends the problem -- I'll totally agree with you. 'Til then - it's nothing but a feel good move that solves nothing. We banned booze for awhile We banned drugs We don't allow teenage sex We pledge to stay married for ever and ever We swear to God "we'll never do "it" again".... and that lasts maybe 15 minutes. We're humans. Humans just don't mind very well. Most of us do... but those few pesky ones -- well -- they just ruin it for all of us. :cheers: |
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Oh that's right, zero! Someone could make a bomb that could kill way more people than a gun. The worst school massacre was done with a bomb, but that's the thing, since then over the last 100 years it's a lot more difficult to get your hands on explosives, and it's just generally a lot more work to do similar damage. The colorado guy had a bomb or something akin to it, if it was so efficient why did he leave it where he lived, instead of just driving a car bomb to the theatre? I'm not saying ban guns, I'm saying that people generally accept that the second amendment doesn't say you can bear any arms in particular, like oh an automatic weapon, a RPG, or a nuclear bomb. I think it's reasonable as one facet of an overall approach to say maybe we shouldn't sell armor piercing bullets to just whomever, or high capacity clips, or high powered assault rifles. It will NOT fix the problem tomorrow, I mean the gun used in this shooting was banned, but grandfathered in, but nothing will fix it immediately. |
You remember when we had a drag strip in almost every community in America back in the 50's and 60's? Why? To get kids to stop street racing....
Then we banned the drag strips 'cause they draw crowds and cause traffic problems and make too much noise... Now we're back to street racing and kids getting killed..... Don't those stupid kids know that's been banned!!! |
i didnt mean to sound insensitive. Its just a subject with no definitive answers. The media is just going on and on about it, sensationalizing the whole story and thinking they can find the answer to how and why. Then the politicians use it as a platform and say something must be done. But they don't know what to do either.
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It was a broad brushstroke about society in general, not just this particular instance. There is no denying that things that were once socially unacceptable are now quite acceptable and sometimes even praised. (I'm talking about the US BTW) The only thing it takes for evil to prevail is for good to do nothing. I am aware that Evil will ALWAYS exist and that bad people do bad things, but it is only getting worse by (either) the good being silent, or the good being silenced.
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Are you saying we should emulate China? Quote:
The things you want to ban ensure we will not have an American Mao. |
Gentleman,
I was going to go into to a ten minute tirad about how american's don't need tactical weapon, but probably not gonna change anyone's mind. So here is a little info I picked up. Gun Deaths 2011 Japan 48, Great Britan 8, Canada 52, Israel 58, Sweden 21, Germany 42, United States 10,782. I live in Canada where we have laws that regulate restricted and prohibited firearms. I don't walk around in fear and feel the need to arm myself. If someone takes my stuff I have insurance. If some comes into my house I have a sherwood 5050 hockey stick( no pun intended), and 911. Just my $0.02 Cheers Mack P.S. I'll be sure to see some of you profiled on a upcoming episode of Doomsday Preppers.:cheers: : |
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Really tho, for some reason or another (or many), a lot of us just don't trust our government. I think that is a big reason for our "fear". |
Governments can definitely be trusted. Trusted to produce Hitlers.
Since Mack threw up Germany as an example let's do the math: 6,000,000 ÷ 10,782 = 556. |
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