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-   -   PWM cooling fan(s) control using ECM (https://www.lateral-g.net/forums/showthread.php?t=40215)

parsonsj 08-16-2013 07:47 AM

The AC-Delco pn is 15-80803 if that means anything.

parsonsj 08-18-2013 08:33 PM

I talked with a local tech today who does a lot of late model upgrades. He said that on C6s they routinely swap to dual Spal fans and get another fan controller and split the signal line from the ECM with great results.

So it seems a single controller with dual fans and dual controllers splitting the signal both work fine.

samckitt 08-19-2013 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by parsonsj (Post 499210)
I have found this site.

http://www.obd2allinone.com/sc/details.asp?item=m5j3

Looks like you can pick up the connectors there. 10 / $2.95.


Here is another site to get the terminals from:

http://www.eficonnection.com/eficonn...spx?ItemId=314

Downside is you have to have a $25 minimum order.

JMitch19 08-19-2013 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by samckitt (Post 500010)
Here is another site to get the terminals from:

http://www.eficonnection.com/eficonn...spx?ItemId=314

Downside is you have to have a $25 minimum order.



mouser.com also has the ecm terminals. A lot of sites call them Delphi connectors but they are really molex. The molex pn is 33467-0005 minimum quantity 1.

http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/...TgQDO3tTBTM%3d

parsonsj 08-19-2013 02:10 PM

Excellent! Can you find the cavity plugs? I just spent 5 minutes on Mouser without any luck...

JMitch19 08-19-2013 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by parsonsj (Post 500072)
Excellent! Can you find the cavity plugs? I just spent 5 minutes on Mouser without any luck...

Most of the the work that I have done has been will GM's E38 ecm. Below are the two connectors for the E38. They don't seem to list a cavity plug at all. I have completely stripped a few factory GM harnesses any I've never seen a cavity plug in a factory setup either. There is a build in seal in the connector that seals around the wire when you insert it. The wire openings in this seal are very small. You could just cut up some scrap 20/22 gauge wire and insert it in the unused spots.

http://www.molex.com/molex/products/...P_HOUSINGS.xml

http://www.molex.com/molex/products/...xml#partdetail

parsonsj 08-19-2013 02:40 PM

No, there's a cavity plug in the harness. They look like this:

http://www.eficonnection.com/eficonn...plug_mx123.jpg

JMitch19 08-19-2013 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by parsonsj (Post 500074)
No, there's a cavity plug in the harness. They look like this:

http://www.eficonnection.com/eficonn...plug_mx123.jpg

Looks like I just needed to work a little harder... http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/...ff%2fQDg%3d%3d

I have a completely stock GM L92 harness sitting right next to me which has no factory cavity plugs. It's good to know these are available.

parsonsj 08-19-2013 03:17 PM

Awesomeness! Thanks very much. I'll ordering up some tonight.

samckitt 08-19-2013 07:22 PM

Pretty sure this is one of the connectors, but I think it is the one that goes to the fan, not the fan module itself.

http://www.casperselectronics.com/st...2fb0a1b1b04209

http://www.eficonnection.com/eficonn...spx?ItemId=915

JMitch19 08-19-2013 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by samckitt (Post 500157)
Pretty sure this is one of the connectors, but I think it is the one that goes to the fan, not the fan module itself.

http://www.casperselectronics.com/st...2fb0a1b1b04209

http://www.eficonnection.com/eficonn...spx?ItemId=915


You are correct. I can't find the connector that plugs into the module to save my life. I'm thinking I'll go the terminals plus electrical potting compound route.

http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/...7u45w%2fCKk%3d

snappytravis 08-19-2013 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JMitch19 (Post 500159)
You are correct. I can't find the connector that plugs into the module to save my life. I'm thinking I'll go the terminals plus electrical potting compound route.

http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/...7u45w%2fCKk%3d

lol, I have been looking for the connector the plugs into fan module also, I google the module manufacturer part number and tried everything. I use to work at gm dealer I may just go up there and see if it list anything in the parts breakdown for it. They make a manual switch that looks like may use it, it has on off and low and high wires in between fans and controller.

Lous69 08-20-2013 05:41 AM

My friendly Chevrolet parts guy said he can not get a separate connector for the module.

It's weird. You just know there is a factory somewhere with bins full of those suckers. Probably even a few lying around on the floor to be swept up and thrown away......but where is that factory???

We decided against the electrical potting on mine. The reason is that it would not allow service to any of the spade connectors down the road should one of them ever get loose or overheat. There is also the possibility the the potting could wick into the connectors and reduce the physical connection surface area.

We used spade connectors. Travis positioned my modules out of harms way relative to rain and splash. We may fill the void around the wires by with a closed cell foam material that can easily be removed.

I suppose one could 3D print an outer sleeve that accepts the o-ring and then pot the spade connectors into that sleeve.... I'll try the foam first.

parsonsj 08-20-2013 05:50 AM

I've got a salvage yard scouring the country for the whole harness, but damaged in some way not related to the controller connection. My plan is to integrate the other end of the wires into a GT280 connector, or maybe a Metri-Pack 480.

We'll see if I come up with something.

JMitch19 08-20-2013 08:11 AM

This morning I decided to disassemble the stock L92 connector to see why GM didn't use any cavity plugs. When I removed the bottom TPA(ecm side) you see no evidence of any cavity plugs. Once I removed the top TPA I could see that GM has the cavity plugs molded into the TPA. I also noticed that the GM connector parts numbers are difference from the 73 and 80 pin connectors that are commonly used in the aftermarket.

Here is a pic of the top TPA.

http://i470.photobucket.com/albums/r...ps6e0cbea4.jpg

Also, if you use a release agent with your potting compound you can make your own connector. It's not ideal, but it will work if you have no other option. Your module appears to be mounted in a location that won't see much moisture/water anyway, so I don't see you having a problem with the foam method.

samckitt 09-01-2013 06:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikels (Post 499056)

E67 controller has 3 fan output drivers - however, when used with PWM fan control, only one of those outputs is utilized. It provides a PWM output at frequency specific to the fan driver controller. I've not measured voltage based on PWM % output to determine what way the voltage goes based on desired output.

Looking at the E67 pinout I see the 3 different fan terrminals:
FAN1 J3-49
FAN2 J1-54
FAN3 J1-41
Which one is used when using the PWM fan control?

parsonsj 09-01-2013 08:55 AM

The A/C pressure sensor is wired in at pins J3-21 (reference ground), J3-37 (reference 5V), and J3-57 (signal).

The PWM control wire is J3-64.

samckitt 09-01-2013 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by parsonsj (Post 502514)
The A/C pressure sensor is wired in at pins J3-21 (reference ground), J3-37 (reference 5V), and J3-57 (signal).

The PWM control wire is J3-64.

Ah, pin 64.... J3-64 FANSPD: IMTVPS

samckitt 09-01-2013 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by parsonsj (Post 502514)
The A/C pressure sensor is wired in at pins J3-21 (reference ground), J3-37 (reference 5V), and J3-57 (signal).

The PWM control wire is J3-64.

Just did some investigating on an old OEM harness I have & all three of the pins mentioned above have terminals in them. They are colored as follows:

J3-21 - Black
J3-37 - Gray
J3-57 - Red with black stripe.

All three go to the same 3 terminal connector of the AC pressure switch.


Connector: http://www.eficonnection.com/eficonn...spx?ItemId=910

Pressure switch: (wow $60) http://www.eficonnection.com/eficonn...px?ItemId=1080

And J3-64 is solid blue.

Lous69 10-09-2013 09:58 PM

Finally fired up my car with the dual C6 corvette PWM fan modules hooked up to the ECM. Looks like all is well with that set up so far. We've only started it a coupe of times. Car goes to chassis dyno Monday to break it in exactly per GM recommendations.

samckitt 11-06-2013 06:28 PM

Hey Lou, you running two fans from one module or two modules, one for each fan? If two modules, you triggering both with one signal wire from the ECM?


And if Lou is running two modules, anyone know if you can run two fans from one module?

Lous69 11-20-2013 04:34 PM

We're running two fans with two modules, both triggered by the same ECU signal. Seems to work fine so far.

I believe our set up is overkill. You should be able to drive two fans with one module as long as you don't exceed the module's rating or the total amperage of the fan in the application the module was originally designed for.

samckitt 02-25-2014 08:25 AM

Anyone ever find a source for the connector for the module itself?

Syclone892 03-01-2014 11:32 PM

I have been following this post and have a question. I have a taurus fan and am getting the holley dominator which I want to make the fan powered by pwm. I was planning on get a solid state relay and send the pwm - signal to it to turn the relay on and off. I haven't checked any diagrams at work but looking at this module I am wondering is it just a nice looking solid state relay? The relay I plan on using is 4 wire so this has one extra wire, I think the extra one is + to fan motor?
Basically I would have
bat + to one side of the coil
pwm - to the other side of the coil
ground to fan motor from relay
ground from battery to relay
and I would have a + wire direct to the fan motor + wire
There would be fuses etc I was just making it quick for example. I like this module if its what I am thinking as its compact and looks more factory than a ssr, it would be nice to find the darn connector for it to finish it off though. So is it possible I could use this to power my taurus fan with my holley ecu?

Thanks to any one that can help out, this site has a lot of great info I have been taking in :D

samckitt 03-02-2014 06:55 AM

Your not going to get the PWM functionality with a relay, you need the PWM module. A relay you will get on and off, nothing else.

Syclone892 03-02-2014 08:10 AM

Hi Scot

I am defiantly new to this stuff and trying to understand just so you know and can go easy on me :D
From what I have been reading the dominator will send out a pwm + or - signal, if I wire that to a solid state relay the relay is able to handle the pwm signal and will pulse the power or ground of the fan. Here is where I got the idea
http://forums.holley.com/showthread....Fan-Holley-EFI
So the way I understand it is the ecu is doing the controlling and can speed up or slow down the pwm and the relay will then pulse the power (or ground depending on hookup) to the fan.
To me thats what the stock e67 ecu is doing and sending it to this module which to me sounds like a ssr.

If I was able to get more info on this control module I may be able to understand it more but so far thats what I have gotten out of it :D

If this is just a nice ssr I was thinking of using it to control my fuel pump also because that is way less amps than fans.

Thanks for more info I hope I can understand this stuff even more before I have to start doing the actual work!

samckitt 03-02-2014 10:08 AM

Hmmm, give ti a try then & see if it will work. Let us know.

Syclone892 03-15-2014 07:20 PM

Well I just got one from amazon. First thing I must say is wow its bigger than I thought. Guess I should have looked at the amazon ad where it says 6x6x4. Figured I would mention that maybe others have thought it was smaller also.

I am still waiting for the dominator to show up so I can not test anything just yet but I defiantly will when it gets here :D
Now on the connector I would really like to find it, my brother looked at the #'s that were posted and he said the part # is the first 5, 48769. The 4 after it has something to do with the cavity and all the others are the type of material, pa6 is some sort of material along with gf and the 15 and 30 are the percentage of gf.

We searched all the places he could think of and no luck so far. He wanted to see if anyone could get some good pics of the connector especially on where the #'s are as that helps to see what brand it is I guess.
Hes also going to check through his work his they can come up with anything.
Otherwise I told him I'm going to have him 3d print me one :yes:

Just wanted to give an update and if/when I find anything on the connector I will get the word out and hopefully be able to help someone!

dontlifttoshift 03-24-2014 06:56 AM

When starting from scratch, how are you guys mounting the GM AC pressure switch?

parsonsj 03-24-2014 07:23 AM

1 Attachment(s)
It was a 3 step process for me: 1. get a sensor from GM (I called Jeff Tate at Riverside Chevrolet). 2. Get an adapter (I went to the local auto A/C expert) for the sensor to screw in. Cost me $20. 3. Send the assembly to Vintage Air, and they brazed #8 A/C ends on the adapter.

dontlifttoshift 03-24-2014 08:55 AM

I see, you put it in the 8. I'm going in the 6 with mine....at least I want to.

For an #8 with EZclip weatherhead FJ3427-0808s is an inline splice with the correct M10-1.25 port on it.

I was hoping someone had an adapter that would go in the drier.

parsonsj 03-24-2014 09:21 AM

Yep, that would be cleaner... but not how GM did it.

My Z06 has the sensor inline in the 8, so I followed suit. I doubt it matters.

samckitt 10-10-2014 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by parsonsj (Post 543118)
Yep, that would be cleaner... but not how GM did it.

My Z06 has the sensor inline in the 8, so I followed suit. I doubt it matters.

I went to the local junk yard & found a couple cars that had them on the already cut AC lines, so I cut the sensor & fitting out of the rest of the line. Local AC shop says they can braze them onto a 90 degree fitting. I got the sensors for $10 as you see below.
http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/f...04653_edit.jpg

GregWeld 10-11-2014 07:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JMitch19 (Post 500261)
Your module appears to be mounted in a location that won't see much moisture/water anyway, so I don't see you having a problem with the foam method.



I didn't go read the entire thread --- but whatever happened to the use of good old dielectric grease on an electrical connector to keep moisture and corrosion at bay.

I gave up on using "spade" connectors a long time ago -- now it's Metripak or Weatherpak only in my garage... particularly given the low voltages in todays electronics.


Some nice solutions on the A/C connectors!

snappytravis 10-13-2014 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Syclone892 (Post 539614)
Hi Scot

I am defiantly new to this stuff and trying to understand just so you know and can go easy on me :D
From what I have been reading the dominator will send out a pwm + or - signal, if I wire that to a solid state relay the relay is able to handle the pwm signal and will pulse the power or ground of the fan. Here is where I got the idea
http://forums.holley.com/showthread....Fan-Holley-EFI
So the way I understand it is the ecu is doing the controlling and can speed up or slow down the pwm and the relay will then pulse the power (or ground depending on hookup) to the fan.
To me thats what the stock e67 ecu is doing and sending it to this module which to me sounds like a ssr.

If I was able to get more info on this control module I may be able to understand it more but so far thats what I have gotten out of it :D

If this is just a nice ssr I was thinking of using it to control my fuel pump also because that is way less amps than fans.

Thanks for more info I hope I can understand this stuff even more before I have to start doing the actual work!

I hooked my fans up to the holley hp ecu. I had to go in and turn the fans on and then designate two wires for 12-, I set the temp at when I want fan wire 1 to come on and it sends a 12- signal to the relay. I then set the temp for fan 2 wire and it also goes 12- when the temperature is reached. Seems to work good so far. For your fuel pump get a hold of Carl Casanova he is the owner of vaporworx. Good guy and great tech support.

PTAddict 11-09-2014 04:37 PM

SRX fan data
 
For those who want to use the King Kong of PWM fans, the Cadillac SRX turbo fan that Mark Stielow uses, here is the part number and programming data from Mikels over on the Camaro XV thread:

"SRX turbo fan part number is 25931645 as you show. PWM controller is built in to fan motor - so no separate module like Corvette fan.

Max PWM duty cycle is 90% positive polarity @ 100 Hz (need this for calibration). Size wiring & fuse appropriately - 64 AMPS peak.

First used this fan on Red Devil and dropped coolant and oil temps ~10F just by changing to this fan from 400W Corvette fan.

Dave"

SlowProgress 11-09-2014 04:47 PM

Thanks for copying it over-great information.

carbuff 11-09-2014 08:42 PM

Apologies if it's already been mentioned, but do you happen to have the dimensions of that SRX fan? I'm wondering how well it would fit a 'normal' sized radiator which drops into most of our cars...

Thanx!

samckitt 11-10-2014 05:36 AM

Where are you buying this thing? I looked up the P/N & price ranged from the upper $500 to over $700.

PTAddict 11-10-2014 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carbuff (Post 579333)
Apologies if it's already been mentioned, but do you happen to have the dimensions of that SRX fan? I'm wondering how well it would fit a 'normal' sized radiator which drops into most of our cars...

Thanx!

I don't have the dimensions. But Stielow also used this fan on Red Devil and Mayhem, which both had more conventional radiator packaging ...


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