I don't have any good pictures like yours but I did do a quick shot with the coil overs aired down. I'm running stock sub frame, Kore3 short spindle 14" brake kit and hubs, the Ridetech True Turn kit, and 18x9.5s with 5.75 bs and 275/35/18s. (Edit: stock height body bushings)

I did turn the flange inside of the outer fender (for mounting the inner) straight up and split the inner fender in multiple places so as to stretch the inner fender to the shape I wanted. The bolt you see in your picture is horizontal now on mine and plenty of distance away from tires edge. The only bolts I felt needed removed was the bottom most rear bolt. The tires did seem to just touch it on both sides. I had mine set at 24.5" from floor to body line in middle of fenders. ( edit: this ride height was after airing back up. )

My only trouble has been figuring out what LS motor swap setup will work with the tie rod adaptor. I think I have that answered now. Todd suggested using the newest Holley motor plates, trans crossmember, long tube headers, and modifying the old 302-1 pan slightly to clear the adaptor.

I'll try my best to remember to get some better pictures.

David

Have you driven your car yet?

I wonder....could it be a difference in hubs? Where did you get your hubs?

I only mention that because of all the frustrations I went through on a street rod build. Shouldnt be, but different manufactures had different wms to wms distances because they were made different. All of that and they claimed to be OEM Mustang II rotors.

No I have not. I have been too busy trying to figure out what parts will or will not work with the tru turn setup. No one could answer me if the new holley pan and motor mount setup would work with the tru turn steering but it looks like Todd from Holley has figured out it will not. I already had my wheels built and mounted (based off the ridetech specs which will not fit any other setup) on my car before running across all this information. I really wish Ridetech would have provided better information on what exactly is needed to make this setup work and not just stating a 18x10 5.75 backspace will work. There is no mention of fender modifications, header clearance requirements, oil pan/motor mount requirements, mention of its only been tested by them using Baer brakes. I honestly feel like there is not enough information provided and I searched and searched for info but never found half as much as what has been discussed in this thread.

http://ls1tech.com/forums/conversion...h-truturn.html

Mislead?

Certainly not our intention in any way. We know a large number of combinations that work fine, but I'm not sure how to go about determining every combination that will NOT work.

As a hotrodder in your position, I would want my money back so I could start over with something that I felt better about. I will certainly accommodate that...and offer my apologies that we could not meet your expectations. If you could email me directly [[email protected]], with your invoice and contact information I can get that process started for you. Hopefully there is a system out there that is more universal.

So maybe mislead was a little strong, sorry. I am very frustrated at this point because I feel like I keep swapping out parts. I wish it were as easy as returning the parts for a refund, I already have wheels custom built on the car based off the tru turn setup and they will not fit anything else. The case is the same for the headers, motor mounts and oil pan. In the very beginning of this project I decided to keep the stock subframe because of the information I got from the ridetech website on the tru turn setup. After almost abandoning the stock subframe at one point I figure I was already invested into this setup and proceeded forward. I searched and searched for information trying to make sure I was ordering the correct wheels/brakes/oilpan/motor mounts to use with the tru turn setup. I did the best I could but what I have learned from this thread alone would have completely changed several of the decisions I have made.

I guess my frustration is this. Very little of the information discussed on this thread as far as brake setup, wheel offsets and fender modifications are in the ridetech information. If it would have been mentioned in any of the information to make sure your brake setup maintains the stock width it would have caused me to order my wheels differently. I went off the blind assumption the information on the website was correct and while its not wrong I feel more could be provided on what exactly you need to do/check/modify to make it fit. Based off the information on the website and even the information I have seen you (Brett) post here it makes it all seem very simple and straight forward when that not the case at all. Im not asking for a list of all the parts that do not fit I would have just been happy with a list of parts to DO fit.

If your going to market this setup is a valid alternative to a new subframe there needs to be more information provided. If I would have gone with a Scott Mock/DSE/Speedtech subframe I would have know exactly what wheels, brakes, oil pan, motor mounts I would have needed. At this point the only part I dont actually own for the tru turn setup is the actual tru turn parts. I already have the a arms, spindles, coilovers, brakes for stock style spindles, wheels, tires, oil pan (thats not going to work), headers (that may work), motor mounts, and who knows what else. I cant just return the ridetech parts as the wheels I spent $1600 to have custom built based off the ridetech specs will not fit any other setup. I am frustrated because I have put so much into this setup based off the information read from ridetech that makes it sound so simple and thats not the case. So your right mislead is a little strong maybe misinformed is better.

going home to dinner...we'll work toward solving your problem tomorrow.

It is unfortunate that your project is not going according to plan. there are so many options these days that is can be overwhelming to say the least. it is like with our stuff, we know what fits if you use all the parts we know and make and use. if you called me and asked what wheels work on a truturn
I would just say I don't know. if you ask about Speedtech parts I would know the answer. that being said I am sure Bret will work with you to fix what he can.
good luck keep your head up this is hot rodding

Actually Todd told me that the new Holley/Hooker system will work with the Ridetech system with some modifications. But you must use the old Holley 302-1 pan to be able to clear the Ridetech tie rod adaptor. Then that pan must either be clearanced on the front of the pan to clear the Xmember or the Xmember must be notched to clear the pan. From what I gather the new system corrects all of the clearance and alignment issues that were prevalent with the old system. I am going to give it a try.

Don't give up yet brother. It's just a car. You'll get there. Unfortunately there are soo many options and combinations. Believe me, I'm the worlds greatest skeptic. Lol.

David

This guy is making a stock frame with tru turn, headers, an LS, and 265 tires work:
http://www.pro-touring.com/threads/9...ld-in-PA/page2

Check out post #26.

lets keep going!
 

it has been a pretty good info thread, some complaining now and then but, I have tried to gather as much info as I can get, while still performing at work, this morning I grabbed spindles, tape measures, tools and set out to get some measurements that many said they wanted on the frame and mounting surfaces

so spindles first......stock vs. RideTech Drop, as you can see other than the RideTech spindle being taller the build dimensions are the same...
http://i752.photobucket.com/albums/x...pseb617c44.jpg

the snouts line up
http://i752.photobucket.com/albums/x...psfa63d430.jpg

the bearing surfaces line up
http://i752.photobucket.com/albums/x...ps4be55e9d.jpg

the the ball joint mounting location is the same
http://i752.photobucket.com/albums/x...ps4b1a3669.jpg

so the wheel is not moved out or in from stock spindle locations
http://i752.photobucket.com/albums/x...psa7f2ef9f.jpg

next is frame measurements.....hold on

Tru-Turn Basic measurements
 

now to the frame....

first I removed the shock, and lifted the arms to ride height
http://i752.photobucket.com/albums/x...psc59ebd6c.jpg

bolted angle stock to the hub with lug nuts
http://i752.photobucket.com/albums/x...psc530ded0.jpg

bolted flat stock between the arm and frame
http://i752.photobucket.com/albums/x...psa917ba81.jpg

simple measurement between the two(2)
http://i752.photobucket.com/albums/x...ps81ab7b55.jpg

here it is from frame tower to rim mounting surface 15 1/8 inches
http://i752.photobucket.com/albums/x...psb97dba1b.jpg

I will do the other side without the hub and give a base dimension on the spindle face!

I have been working with Bret this morning to try to solve the oil pan clearance. As soon as the parts show up I will post my findings.

We used the Holley cast LS oil pan, Hooker LS headers and Hooker engine mounts in the "stock" location on the 48 Hour car and the Goodguys Camaro.

On the shock ride heights...if you go to the website and look at [whatever product you want] we have a PDF of the instructions listed there. http://www.ridetech.com/store/1967-1...m-level-2.html

Inside the instructions is a bill of materials that lists the shock stroke that is included with the system. The ride height has a bit of adjustment available, but is generally about 50-60% of the extended height. In the case of the early Camaro, the 3.6 front shock will have a ride height of approx. 11.5" and the rear 5" stroke shock will have a ride height of approx. 14.5".

Yep...been talking with Chris...his frustrations are the same ones all of us hotrodders go through during a build. If it was easy it wouldn't be worth it!

I don't have any truly new information here that has not been gone over by everyone else. Rod is doing a GREAT job of translating dimensions and measurements into english. I think the main point is that these old cars can be obstinate. The most perfectly designed and built component will fit on 99 out of 100 cars. We've all owned #100 at one time or another. Not trying to minimize his frustrations...just comiserating.

quick and dirty Tru turn video
 

5/16 button head screws will do a world of wonder for tire clearance and wear on your Camaro. Taken from my tricks I did to my 1st Gen Z/28 back in the 70s when 245/60-15 Goodyear Wingfoots were the tire to have:thumbsup:

Maybe a little off topic but....can Ride Tech coil overs be removed from the Strong Arms without taking the a-arms apart? I need to get some measurements with wheel travel figured in so I can get some wheels ordered.

I think it's at least 2 out of 100 cars Bret! Don’t forget about me.

I appreciate all of the effort you guys are putting in on showing us the measurements. I'm dying to make some ride height adjustments and checking my measurements vs what you have.

but if we are being honest - the numbers, at least on this thread are 2 out of 3 or 2 out 4 at best on 69 Camaros that don’t work with this setup. Don’t you guys have more 69’s out there running this system? Can you reach out to them and get some photos and feedback on how they made it work?

I still have heartburn on turning the wheel and having the tire hit the fender. I get the negative camber gain during turn in, but the tire still has a travel arc and I don't see how it doesn't hit the fender. There is not enough room on a 69.

Rod keeps giving me a picture of his 68 as proof but they have different a fender profile. The 67/68 is much more rounded which gives a not insignificant amount of additional clearance to the tire.

This picture sums it up. If you can show me your 69 pulling into a raised drive area at 5-10 mph with the wheels near lock without cringe inducing fender rub, I will shut my mouth and get back to work

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...ps27674322.jpg

no you have to break them apart they are just to tight a fit in the Camaro frame pocket to remove

GLR0212- What brake setup are you running? Do you know how much the brakes offset the mounting surface from the stock location?

GLR0212- You keep showing the same picture of our 69. The fact is that there IS clearance, even in that picture. Maybe it's not a great angle, but I watched over Rod as he did this. . .it is my job. And I assure you there is room to put your hand in there. . .not a ton of room, but room enough.

You must remember, this is an upgrade to allow you to wedge a 275 tire under an OE subframe. There's no doubt it's tight. Of course DSE is going to have more clearance. . .they had the ability to move the frame rails and other parts. We are still dealing with the stock locations.

First, we need to figure out how far out the brakes have moved the wheels (if at all).
Then we need to add -1.0 to -1.5 degrees negative camber (this is the BIGGEST part of making this work!) Those that want to put a 275 under the front are typically building a "track" car and need the negative camber anyway.
Finally you'll need to remove/replace the fender bolt and roll the fender lip.

I understand the 67/68 wheel opening is more round than the 69 and the 69 hangs down over the tire more. However, the 69 fender is pushed out further than the early cars.

I have done some of the extra work here to give everyone one a LOT more info....you have the measurement?? 15 1/8 inches simple if its more than that...then we need to figure out your offset, if it is the same 15 1/8 inches, then you have the wrong offset rims, also simple just re-hoop the wheels, forgeline (or most forge rim builders will re-hoop at minimal cost) and then you can run fatty rims, and Impress friends and influence enemies

This probably explains my situation with the additional 1/4"....I already had a CPP brake kit installed prior to purchasing the TruTurn system, although the CPP rep stated the kit did not change track width. I wish I had those measurements of track width prior to ordering wheels, I would have liked a 10". Since putting a 275 on the front with stock frame is pushing the limits, there is obviously no room for error. It would be great if Ridetech could help out us amateur hotrodders and add a technical page with the details.

Im still working on my inner fender to tire clearance issues but I didnt find out the Wilwood brakes add .38 of a inch to each side. If I would have realized this before ordering me wheels I could have just ordered wheels with a 1/2 inch more backspace and Im betting I would have plenty of clearance. I did call Baer and they state they do not change the track width at all.

I do think it would be very helpful if ridetech could call out we should be aware of the brake kit that is used and and be mindful of any extra track with that is added when ordering your wheels. It sure could have saved me some trouble.

tire selection
 

Also, the tire selection may make a difference, since this system pushes the limits with the stock subframe. Tire section widths vary by manufacturer and that Falken tire shown in the pictures has a more rounded tread shoulder than the KDW's I have.

we did? that's what this whole thread is about and you have said the same thing over and over...


didn't you have the 5.250 backspace rims?? I'm the NEW guy but I will tell you if that's your backspace, your rims wont fit you have the wrong backspacing, you read the offset incorrectly you say you have 5.250 because you wanted them .500(1/2) narrower than 5.750, you went the wrong way, to be narrower(more fender space) by .500(1/2) you should have ordered 6.250...the 5.250 is very close to what I have but even then you're still to wide....RideTech recommends 5.750 back space

And they say anyone can build one of these cars, IT's easy, why should I pay you to do it??



CUZ THAT'S WHAT WE (the builders and manufacturers on here. not just Speedtech) DO

no disrespect to the posters but in this game it is ALL about the measurements

:lmao: tape measure! cheap tool that makes you look smart and makes parts fit

Notfernuthin but.....


I'm at a loss as to why someone wouldn't think this would have an impact.

I have 18x10 with 6 inch back spacing bfg kdw 275 35 18 tires wilwood brakes speedteck control arms and fits perfect with minor modification to the inner fender. I did lose some turning radius had to weld a washer to the steering arms so it touches the control arms so the tire wont rub on the frame. I also tried it on two friends cars 69 e 67 fits on both with out any fender mods only losing minor turning radius tire brand does make a difference I have two sets of rims same back spacing one with bfg kdw they are rounded at the edges fits perfect others are toyo 888 did not fit well I made then fit but required a lot more fender modification.

yes it does, those 888's are really square edged, more like a track tire and they are hard to fit that way, there idea of the millimeter measurement is a little wider also BFG is also wider than Falken's millimeter measurement

Great...I'm using R888's! Good thing my Firebird is still in primer I guess. I wonder if I could go with a little more back spacing to make them fit better?

CW - I'm using C6 Z06 brakes from kore 3. they use a machined hub similar to the wilwood pictured above.

The fender bolts are not an issue with me. I get it, i can take them out or put a button head in there. That's not what worries me. I'm also not worried about rolling the inner part of the fender if necessary. What is disconcerting is seeing how the fender lays over the tire when the wheel is turned. The fender sits on the tire.

Seriously, you guys are helping me and I'm sure others out by going through this exercise with us. If you have more pictures or you have a car in the shop you can make a short video of the car maneuvering it will help my confidence tremendously. There is nothing worse than putting tons of time and money into something and then hitting a wall like this.

#1 i may need somewhere between 1/8" to 3/16" less BS (effectively pushing the tire farther out...) Will double check the measurements. I'm basing this on the fact that I do a little more than "graze the frame under full lock.

#2 I need to raise my car 3/4" (sad face)

#3 I need to add another -1.0 degree of camber (total of -1.5)

I'll keep y'all posted.

When I ordered my kit I dont think it was listed on the website. I sure as hell dont remember it. If I would have seen it I would have ordered more backspace in my wheels.

I would wait to get the car running and aligned before you go and make drastic changes. If you are into the frame at full lock that might be ok. I'd like to see what the contact is like at a u turn steering wheel positions which is a lot less degrees than going to full lock. It's easier to do frame modifications than fender and body changes.

GLR- I just emailed Tobin and he states his kit actually removes width VS the stock setup. He states -.240 per side. Between that and your backspacing you should have plenty of outer fender clearance but it explains your swaybar issues.

No problem, I'm a bit of a freak, (ask Vince) I get excited when I talk about suspension, most peoples eyes glaze, but not me, I don't throw numbers and Blah Blah around, I'm not that smart, I look at control arms, spindles, braces/brackets, angles, arcs, designs, and try to figure out how and why they arrived at that solution and how do i make it better or augment that solution, build that, test that, fix that


I'm in California for a little bit with 3 events, packing, working on my car, 48 hour car, and add a little (if I can sneak out in the middle of all this) help to my friend David P. on his crazy ......build but I will either at one of the events or when I get back to Indiana get some prof of life video of the kit on a 69 turning and racing

That doesn't quite make sense given what I am experiencing on the fender side.

Its been a long time but I could have sworn when I bought the brakes that it was .25" wider per side, hence the reason I went with 6.25 BS. (That and Frank at prodigy telling me i needed 6.5")

I can always take out some BS with a spacer if that is the case. sounds like a re-hoop is eventually in my future either way.

Have you measured the actual backspace and width on your wheels?