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Thanks for the encouragement Marty and Rick. I was going to sleep in but ended up getting up early to go on a bike ride. I logged in and got a chuckle out of your posts !
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Nice garage night !
Thanks guys. I try to post up as much detail as time will allow. Always wish there was more time, or that one photo you forgot to take !
It was a great night in the garage, beautiful, cool evening, just fun to be outside. I didn't get that much done but sometimes it is just about being out there, rather than wasting time in front of the TV, or computer. I took the differential housing off the dolly and finished all the welds on the dolly which was pretty easy. Not very fancy but it works great. https://i.imgur.com/vZNd4BWl.jpg I also mounted the differential housing back on the welding table to get started on the final TIG welding. I am looking forward to that so I can mount some brake lines and get it off to powder paint, a huge step. Got the Kook headers sent back to Summit yesterday. I have mixed emotions there because they were pretty nice. I placed the order for Ultimate headers today, hoping to pick up more ground clearance. Couple photos from tonight and that's about it. https://i.imgur.com/cW2SjjZl.jpg https://i.imgur.com/hSL0VH4l.jpg |
Welded the diff. housing
Well, I finally got some time to weld up the differential housing. What a lot of work. It took me all weekend. Here are the nicer welds. I am not going to show all the bad ones.
https://i.imgur.com/U1vVdhPl.jpg https://i.imgur.com/2bIJ7U8l.jpg I still have trouble going around a tube. This was a great project to practice on because there are so many angles and hard to reach places. I had to buy a short back cap to get into some places. https://i.imgur.com/0cstnpBl.jpg I thought this was a cool picture of my welder. It is old, mechanical and worn out just like the operator. But it hung in there for me all weekend and didn’t miss a beat. https://i.imgur.com/9LzCy1Ml.jpg These old housings always weep a little around the axle tube. I decided at the last minute to TIG braze the tubes to the housing with silicon-bronze rod. It won’t really add much strength, but hopefully it will keep it from leaking. I tried both DC and AC settings. AC seemed to work the best. It looks pretty ugly before grinding. https://i.imgur.com/uaZEkiTl.jpg But it ground down fairly well ! https://i.imgur.com/PoxnqASl.jpg I decided not to weld the ends on until all the brackets were finished. Good thing because there was a large mismatch on one side and I had to reposition the ends for final weld. Both of my axle tubes are bent slightly. Rather than scrap the housing, I decided to just live with it. This means there is a mismatch where the end and tube come together. I made three passes and then a weaving pass at the end to smooth it out a little. I told my coworker that I probably created some sort of metallurgical taboo doing this but it is done ! https://i.imgur.com/YP9A0qzl.jpg Afterwards the alignment jigs still slid in the ends fairly easily with the alignment bar, so everything is straight and fine. I snooped around on the DSE site and found a housing where they put the brake hose tabs in this location. I just blindly copied it so I hope it doesn’t interfere with anything later. https://i.imgur.com/mQwq10rl.jpg I finally got to cut these housing stands off my welding table. It is great to have those out of the way. https://i.imgur.com/8IT1bIPl.jpg I mounted the housing back on the cart and I will do just a little clean-up before taking it to the powder painter this week. https://i.imgur.com/5yH3eJAl.jpg Next weekend is Goodguys, so I will be crawling all over the cars getting ideas for the next phase of the project. Probably won’t get much done this week but looking forward to some nice times at Goodguys ! |
This is a major milestone that was beautifully executed. It's done! No more worrying about how it will turn out. All your careful planning and yards of laying bead produced a perfect rear end. Have a great time at Goodguys.
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Ultimate Headers Arrived !
Just a quick mid-week update, Brown Santa arrived with the Ultimate Headers today. These are just really nice pieces of hardware. I will admit I was a little worried they would get damaged in transport, but they are packed really well for shipping. This is my first set of shorty/mid-length headers and it was cool to see just how small the box is.
https://i.imgur.com/zXbQU7Pl.jpg Here is a quick photo fresh out of the box. I had the low profile ball style coupling installed which I think will really reduce stress when things heat up and move around. https://i.imgur.com/zlo1XaIl.jpg Everything fit really well, improving my steering box, control arm and ground clearance. https://i.imgur.com/plzPL45l.jpg https://i.imgur.com/DWvHL3ol.jpg Both headers go in from the top now which was an unexpected bonus. The passenger side has an amazing amount of room. https://i.imgur.com/NOaM1Y1l.jpg The only down side is they are so nice I will have to build a really decent 3-Inch exhaust now. I am very pleased with this purchase. Jim Browning at Ultimate was very good to work with, answering all my dumb questions. I can tell he has a passion to deliver a really high quality product. Also need a shoot out to Joe VanNus at Dutch Boys. I called him out of the blue one day asking which headers fit their Camaro projects the best. He spent a bunch of time on the phone with me, in spite of how busy he is. I had heard of Ultimate from Camaro XV, but was actually not seriously considering them until we talked. I want to extend kudos to Joe for the good advice. Next up the differential is getting powder painted and should be done tomorrow. I will start putting that together this weekend and hope to complete it if all goes well this weekend! |
Anyone in Phoenix Area
Anyone in the Phoenix area have a new 12-bolt pinion nut ? Hate to admit that I misplaced the new one in the Moser setup kit. I am about ready to wrap up the differential and can't find one. I can replace early next week. You could PM your contact information - appreciated !:ohsnap:
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Sorry I can't help you with the nut I'm loving the progress
Marty-mj www.garagescene.net www.syborgtwinturbo.com www.2ndcamaro.com |
Rear end in process
Finally started setting up the differential and gears. I Ended up not working on it the last two weeks because I was missing the 1350 input yoke. Funny I took for granted that the local drive-train shops would have it in stock due to my lack of experience. I had to order it costing me a weekend. As mentioned above I also misplaced the pinon lock nut. I called GM and they said they had one. Unfortunately when I got home it was 7/8-14 rather than the 7/8-16 thread that is needed. Gosh I have forgotten all the little things that can go wrong with a simple axle build-up. I need to start planning a little better. I will post up some more pictures tomorrow. If I can't find the locknut tomorrow it will be shimmed and the pattern set, but I will have to stop there.
https://i.imgur.com/UFOiOItl.jpg |
its always the little things isn't it.
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The little things
Yes it is. I think my problem is the last time I built the car was 25 years ago. There were 2-3 speed shops within a 15 minute drive of the house. Now everything is online. You can get anything now in 2-3 days, but there is no local backup up if you find you are missing something Friday evening.
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Sign of the times my friend. I remember when you use to shop at a place for the bond you made with the people that worked there. Now it's all about how much money you can save. Too bad you aren't local. I got a bunch of those parts on the shelf.
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Little more differential work
I didn’t get finished with the diff., partly I didn’t have enough time and also I lost the locking pinion nut somewhere, probably at the hardware store. So I will post up what I have and finish the build this coming week hopefully. Here are a few things that may be helpful if you have never built up a 12-bolt.
First off I was surprised to find something I had forgotten. The 12-bolt pinion nut uses a 7/8-16 thread. So when I bought a fine thread nut from the store it would only spin on a couple of turns. You need (well it is nice to have) a free-running nut to set up the pinion depth so I cut off the first few threads of the 7/8-14 fine nut and it worked for my setup nut. https://i.imgur.com/PTi4fc8l.jpg Then I sanded down my old pinion bearing with the dremel tool so it was a nice slip fit on the pinion gear. This worked great because I had the pinion out about 5 times tinkering with the best gear pattern and it would have been a pain to press the bearing on and off 5 times to adjust the depth shims! I don’t have a press. https://i.imgur.com/ifC9xPNl.jpg I drove in the new races and once I had the pinion easy to take in and out of the housing I checked the radial and axial runout on the Wavetrack unit. Both radial and axial were about .0015 which I considered pretty good. Also I measured the height of the new bearing and race and the setup bearing and new race and they were within 1 tenth (.0001) so I knew my pinion depth measurements would be good. Radial https://i.imgur.com/CpA9WZKl.jpg Axial https://i.imgur.com/mBpVPTdl.jpg I put the ring gear in the oven around 300F for a while and the diff. in the refrigerator. Everything slide together easily which was nice. I had a couple of old studs I used to line it all up. I had Moser press on the carrier bearings so I didn’t have to mess with that. https://i.imgur.com/ICjCxTPl.jpg Then I got hungry https://i.imgur.com/wgRPzYZl.jpg I started with the pinion shims from the previous rearend setup, adjusted the side clearance and backlash with the carrier shims as required. https://i.imgur.com/d5eqSxyl.jpg It took several tries to get everything right. I bought some cheap brass drivers for putting in the races and also for taping in the shims. The differential needs a few extra thousands of preload during the last installation. I haven’t done that yet. I called Moser and they said they don’t usually use a case stretcher, just carefully tap in about .010 extra shims. I was going to make a case stretcher but figured if they don’t use one then I won’t. It is probably a good idea for high power applications. Some diffs. it is mandatory. Anyway the brass drifts work well – so far. https://i.imgur.com/tcGiDXgl.jpg Lastly I messed with the pattern and used a prybar to load things up so I could get a good preload on the gearset. https://i.imgur.com/L70Rjmcl.jpg I purchased this cool pinion holder from Raytech http://www.ratechmfg.com/toc.htm. https://i.imgur.com/8PxLDcbl.jpg It came in really handy for checking the pattern and will be necessary during the final pinion nut torque. I am also going to bolt it to the differential stand to support the pinion, so I can remove the back brace and install the rear cover to button everything up. I will try to finish up the rest this week and post the final images. It is taking too long for sure !!! |
Nice write up on the 12 bolt! I've done several rear ends and it always takes WAY longer then it should. Th least one I did was on my old daily Dodge Ram, wasn't to bad but only lasted two years then blow up again :headscratch:
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Nice writeup for those that have never messed with the 12 bolt ... I hope my 12 bolt had this much attention put into the rebuild!
:thankyou: Michael |
Finished the rear axle assembly !
I finally got some time to work on the differential this week. With all the clearances set I did a few pinion swaps changing the depth a few (too many) times to get the pattern I thought looked the best. This is a little tedious but I was happy with the final result.
https://i.imgur.com/o0Von0nl.jpg https://i.imgur.com/h8SkBvfl.jpg I bought this inexpensive pinion checker from Raytech https://www.ratechmfg.com/toc.htm. https://i.imgur.com/yDm705Vl.jpg I was a little skeptical about how accurate it would be. To be fair it did take me a while to get the hang of it. Since I was getting a slightly different reading each time I just set the pattern using the marking compound supplied by Moser and put the original shims in there. I saw somewhere online where it was suggested to start around .032 with the pinion shims. That’s exactly what was in the gearset I took out and the wear pattern was really pretty good. I only had to tweak it about .005 more. When I had a good pattern, I put the tool back on, took two readings and averaged them. The number came out exactly the pinion depth on the gear. So, I would have to say with a little practice this tool can get you pretty close! Moser ships solid pinion bearing spacers with their 12-Bolt setup kit. That was fine with me because I hate the crush sleeves. https://i.imgur.com/oqZkewRl.jpg I installed the sleeve with a few shims and started making adjustments to get the proper drag. It took several installations, each taking out a few thousandths to get the bearing drag right. https://i.imgur.com/rjPZreGl.jpg The holding fixture worked well. I could just put a breaker bar against the cart and run the torque down to check the preload. Even though it took several installs, it went really fast. I used a modified nut with no locking feature so the pinion threads don't get worn out. https://i.imgur.com/JxnuCCVl.jpg Finally all the shims are selected and everything is setup. I took a few minutes to think about how cold/hot I needed to get everything to slide the real bearing on the pinion, since I don’t have a press. I looked up the expansion coefficients online and figured out that I should be able to put the bearing in the oven at 300F and cool the pinion down with some dry ice. I wasn’t sure how cold I could get the pinion, so I just assumed around -30F. Should be possible to get it colder but I was just guessing a little. Sorry about the geek stuff but here is the spreadsheet I used. Actually it was a fun learning refresher and I realized I need to ask for an infrared thermometer for Christmas so I don’t have to guess at temperatures! https://i.imgur.com/zdK5S7wl.jpg The bearing in the oven and the pinion in with the dry ice. https://i.imgur.com/W1iu0ubl.jpg https://i.imgur.com/3uIg3ZBl.jpg The bearing slipped right on. I just held it down with some pressure until the temperatures started to equalize. We do this at work with liquid nitrogen so you don’t have to heat the other part. But I don’t have any liquid nitrogen at home. https://i.imgur.com/bqs8S64l.jpg I cleaned up the housing really well prior to assembling it for the last time. There was some loose scale inside the tubes from welding on the outside. I ran a hone inside the tubes just to break all the loose stuff off and then hosed it down with mineral spirits and hot water to clean everything. https://i.imgur.com/6FdwmNVl.jpg The last little bit of work was to shorten one axle. I knew from pre-assembly that it was just a touch too long. Moser suggests using a chop saw. I taped up the bearings really well and then cut it off carefully with a .040 cutoff and the Makita. It only took a few minutes. https://i.imgur.com/SAWaw3ml.jpg I forget to plug the gun-drilled hole and made a real mess inside. I ran some rags and mineral spirits inside and finally got it clean. Lots of junk came out. I realized that I really hadn’t checked the other axle and it had quite a few metal chips inside from gun drilling. So I am glad I looked them both over before slamming it together. This is just some of the junk that came out. https://i.imgur.com/fJZcdgkl.jpg It was really nice to have the whole thing done. No part of this is particularly hard it just takes a lot of steps to get there. https://i.imgur.com/HllQ3QDl.jpg I decided to put it back in the car. The dolly worked out well by positioning it close. I still had to move stuff around with the floor jack but it was an easy one man job. It looks pretty nice in there! https://i.imgur.com/CjGCq5sl.jpg Overall, I was able to re-learn some things I hadn’t done since the 80s. I am happy I did it but if I ever blow this one up, I will probably buy the next one to save some time!! Here is just a short refresher on how to setup the 12-bolt in case you are reading this to get some setup ideas. 1. If you don’t have a really accurate depth tool, I suggest to make a setup pinion bearing. Sand the inside to get a slip fit but not too loose. Grind evenly so it is centered. There are videos online where people show how to do this properly. Use either a new bearing, or lightly used bearing so the height is the same as your new pinion bearing. Measure to be sure so the setup distance is the same. 2. Start with the shims from the old gear set, or something around .032. 3. Check the pinion depth 4. Set in the differential and adjust the shims where it taps in with medium effort. 5. Check the pattern. If it is close then set the backlash and recheck. 6. Adjust pinion depth as needed. Each pinion depth change means re-shim the differential. 7. When it is all final then press on (or use temperature) to put the new pinion bearing on for the last time. Don’t use a really high temperature or the bearing hardness will be affected. 8. Set up the pinion bearing preload and install the seal and torque the pinion flange nut. 9. Double check the pinion drag. 10. Add about .010 to .012 extra differential shims (split evenly on each side) and tap in the differential. It will take some effort this time and you won’t be able to easily pull it back out. 11. Double check the gear pattern and backlash. Nothing should have changed. 12. Button it all up. 13. Have a beer ! |
Nice !
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Long two months off !
I finally got out in the garage after a couple months off. Home repair projects are the worst hobby killers. Ramping up slow but made some progress on raising the tunnel. Took a while to find my build thread for the small update because it was so many pages back. I need to remember to keep it fresh the rest of this year.
I had 1.5 inch strips tacked on but substituted 2-inch strips and I think the height is closer to what I need. https://i.imgur.com/yIl03bgl.jpg I used my poor man bead roller to sort of match the original factory bead near the floor seam. https://i.imgur.com/AW7FuNRl.jpg https://i.imgur.com/FHX9CTql.jpg I trimmed the edges clean to line it up on the welding table and tacked it on. https://i.imgur.com/dGQD50ml.jpg https://i.imgur.com/09deMdPl.jpg Did the same thing on the other side. It went pretty fast. https://i.imgur.com/dDvc2Lgl.jpg I plan to use the original style console so I set my beat up old console in there to make sure it all fits. https://i.imgur.com/tlvQ9kul.jpg Now I need to do the hard stuff, work on the rear transition back down to the original tunnel height and the front transition into the firewall. I will also cut a larger hole in the top to be able to access the shifter cover. There is still a lot to do but it was a good few hours of easy work to get me fired up again. |
Great update! what about raising the remainder of the drive shaft tunnel? You would have to think about your rear seat of course if going with one.
just a thought you might already have a way, and a better one to boot. I enjoy your build progress!:thumbsup: |
Yes, I am keeping the back seat. I have seen this done many different ways so my approach was to start with dirt simple and see if that works. If it tilts down front-to-rear it could make the console look funny, so keeping the original angle seemed best with a stock console. I still may need to split and widen the tunnel at the rear to ease the transition. It is probably time for some paper templates and try to figure out what looks the best. I am probably more worried about the front bell area due to all the compound angles and difficult access.
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I don't have a great picture of what I did but I re used the top and just added to it where it was needed.
A picture is worth a 1000 words.. maybe. http://i765.photobucket.com/albums/x...67/file-10.jpg http://i765.photobucket.com/albums/x...r67/file-9.jpg |
Thanks good to see how you did yours. The piece in front is really beat up on my car. It looks like every engine swap the transmission was smashed into the bottom of the floor and also a little clearance work with a big hammer. I saved it to do what you have done but I am not sure I can straighten it.
Scott |
Diggin it so far
love the fab work involved
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A little more work on the tunnel
Just a short update. I didn’t have a lot of time this weekend but plugged away TIG welding the tunnel extension. I decided to use TIG so I could practice my hammer welding. It was worth the effort because I got better and faster as I went along. Also filled a couple holes and repaired the ragged edge that tore when I drilled out the spot welds incompletely.
I welded it as uniform as I could and then used the bench as an anvil to hammer if flat. https://i.imgur.com/y4e2Rnul.jpg I cut the weld bead down with the edge of a cutoff wheel, hit it with a die grinder and 80 grit, then smoothed it a little with the DA sander and 80 grit. It is a little wavy but not too bad. https://i.imgur.com/fhKJ6RIl.jpg https://i.imgur.com/V2zRbXDl.jpg I need to work on my organization. I got the bench so messy I couldn’t work and had to stop and clean. https://i.imgur.com/GXfjsT5l.jpg Then moved on to the ragged edge. I just chopped it out and trimmed in a new piece. https://i.imgur.com/3EdmLQdl.jpg https://i.imgur.com/MN8IoW5l.jpg https://i.imgur.com/hKK7yxYl.jpg https://i.imgur.com/sQBAW98l.jpg Overall it came out pretty good. Passenger side is better because I did it second. It will all be under carpet and the bottom side will smooth out with just a tiny bit of filler. I still need to figure out what to do with the shifter. The extra two gears use up more room and hits the console insert in the 1-2 gate and also going into reverse on the other side. https://i.imgur.com/JK1Kolal.jpg https://i.imgur.com/BOv6quHl.jpg I can countersink the fasteners but that isn’t going to be enough. It would be better if someone made a wider insert. Anyone know where to get one? Some of the shifters have a shorter attachment, but I know other people on this site have had leaking problems with aftermarket shifters, which makes me want to keep the Tremec if possible. If anyone has solved this I would like to see your stock console solution. It is probably easy and I am just missing something !! |
The tunnel came out nice! Keep at it ....
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Got a little tanked tonight !
Brown Santa brought a nice present from Rick’s tonight. I really like the looks of the stamped tank and have been waiting for the production to kick in. This has the ZL-1 kit, corner pickups and sending unit. Vaporworx controller is on the way via drop ship. Overall very pleased with the design and hope it works as well as it looks !
https://i.imgur.com/vwlar7jl.jpg Here is a size comparison with the stock tank. https://i.imgur.com/bdpVu8hl.jpg And the side view https://i.imgur.com/Rr7H5aPl.jpg |
Nice score .... :ups: Is that new to Rick's? That's really cool, :y0!: where did you get it?
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I just called Rick's after seeing a post about this on Facebook.That was about the first of the year and they said mid-to-late February. I checked back a week or so ago and they are shipping out, so I placed the order. It has the sort of "resto" look to it that I liked a bit better than stainless. If it works well I think they will sell a bunch of them. Good for them !!
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The tank looks very good! I would love to see pictures of it in the car from the rear, I hate how the stainless ones stick out. Even painted black to me they look a loaded diaper hanging underneath the car. If this doesn't look like that my stainless one will be up for sale!
I enjoy your posts by the way:thumbsup: |
Killing a few minutes before bed !
Just messing around trying to figure out what this tunnel transition piece will look like. I think I am going to keep it simple and make something like this. Need to wrap this project up before I get stuck in sheet metal quicksand!!
https://i.imgur.com/2GYuRxpl.jpg Here is the front piece I need to make. I am pretty sure this is the ugliest stamped piece I have ever seen - anywhere ! The wrinkles even have wrinkles. https://i.imgur.com/12ISf9cl.jpg I probably can’t fabricate it from scratch with 2 x 4s and large hammers. I am thinking about having a local sheet metal shop roll the edge bead and then I can wrap it around some pipe or something. Searching I found this nice piece from Bowler, they package and sell them as a kit but said I could get just the front piece in few weeks when the next next production is complete. That was nice of them to offer. I will probably just work my way through this on my own. But it is still a pretty nice piece and probably would have saved me some time. https://i.imgur.com/aUDBgvyl.jpg |
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That's a nice looking tank. Should be sweet in there.
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Rick's Stamped tank Mock-Up
Here is a quick shot of the Rick’s stamped tank mocked-up in the 67. I think it looks pretty good. Sorry night time photos aren't the greatest. It is still a little deeper than stock in front, but I think it is a good trade to have the Zl-1 pump in there. Those stamped ridges and the flat black look really good IMO. I am not sure if I will paint it another flat black or not - hmmm decisions !
Rear View https://i.imgur.com/xNySh5Wl.jpg Sides https://i.imgur.com/DdjDP2zl.jpg https://i.imgur.com/qMsPwCbl.jpg |
That looks great in there ... photos make it look grey?
Good idea w the stamped tank, think I'll follow suit! |
I will get one in some good sunlight today. Actually a really nice flat black.
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I think it looks great in there. I,m sure it's going to work perfectly.
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I think it seems to blend in a little more than the stainless ones, it looks good. I have a friend in Maricopa, next time I come visit him I would love to check your car out. Keep up the great work.
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Working the firewall transition
I decided to save the mangled piece that connects the tunnel to the firewall. I was going to start over but as I looked at the firewall, the metal there is all folded and wrinkled in many spots. So, I beat on this piece for a while to get as many wrinkles out, glass beaded all the sealant off and welded closed a few holes. I decided to just tack weld the same 2-inch strips to the sides as the rest of the tunnel.
https://i.imgur.com/o7t0Kuhl.jpg https://i.imgur.com/Ksclxenl.jpg I also added some Clecos through some of the old spot welds to help hold it in place. Unfortunately, I wasn’t as careful as I should have been cutting this piece out and I had to add another small strip on the driver’s side. https://i.imgur.com/mJCdIeGl.jpg I kept going back to the trunk to eyeball and make sure it looks square and flat. It still needs to move over a little at the rear. I will take some reference measurements before I do my final welds. https://i.imgur.com/qWI8tcfl.jpg I used my little handy bead maker tool to sort of match the factory stiffener rib that runs around the pinch weld joint. This simple contour matched surprisingly well and I can fine tune it in the vice. https://i.imgur.com/Fjx11Hal.jpg https://i.imgur.com/hBs48uml.jpg I made a few paper patterns and cut out the final piece in front. https://i.imgur.com/PO21w64l.jpg https://i.imgur.com/sENx0WYl.jpg It all looks pretty crude now, but as I trim and start butt-welding it together and work out a few more high/low spots I think it will work better. I don’t have a photo, but I trimmed the firewall area at the front and there is plenty of transmission clearance all around. I am still about 1000 hammer blows away from finishing this, but it feels like it is heading in the right direction ! |
Mid-week update
I took a couple hours tonight, trimmed and tack-welded the puzzle pieces together on the tunnel piece that connects up to the firewall. It actually went pretty well with the TIG. I fit it close enough in most places to not need filler. There are a couple of gaps but nothing terrible. I trimmed the edges back a little more and it is starting to look OK. If I had a bead roller, I would roll a couple of beauty marks in it to make it look a little better.
https://i.imgur.com/UvsxpXNl.jpg https://i.imgur.com/fg5Aitgl.jpg I am taking next week off and plan to finish this and move on. See how that works out. It should weld in OK as long as I don’t get in a hurry and trim it wrong. |
Its looking good already.
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