:lmao: :lmao:

Pro Tourning :headscratch: Its a street legal car of vintage decent modified by the owner, in the way the owner envisions it to be the ultimate roadworthy version of a car the owner has chosen.

PT is in the eye of the beholder.


People want to test the metal of their creations so cone dodging or open track days exist.

I can't knock someone for trying to make a few bucks by creating a series but a true PT car (not something built to win a "class") is a street, car not a race car, and ultimately is what the owner wants it to be.

Why not debate what the definition of the ultimate production car is? I'm sure we can agree on that. :lmao:

:popcorn2:

Ironworks:

Thanks for the thoughts.

Perhaps not a Gold Star, but maybe a invitation to go to Vegas to participate in the OUSCA?

That seams to be where many of the best cars come together.

Ty

I don't get the track emphasis.

What part of "touring" don't people understand? I plan on taking my '68 Camaro to the east coast this fall - probably a trip of 6,000 to 8,000 miles - by myself. That strikes me as a "tour," much more so than a few hours on a race track.

Race track time, to me, only serves to demonstrate the capabilities of the car; it is not the raison d'être for the car.

Im with you for the first half of this statement but by the second half of the above definition, any restored vintage car can be a PT car. Even Jeff Lutz 57 Chevy Drag Week car. Perhaps the the roadworthy portion can be redefined as "with an emphasis on posting as many G's under both cornering and breaking as accelerating."

I'm not sure where the emphasis on racing came from. When I first joined, ProTouring was a style, not class. The first car I remember seeing and referring to as ProTouring was Stielow's Mule. To this day, I dont know if its ever seen a day of competition but yet I still consider it ProTouring. What it does have that makes it protouring in my eyes is the appearance of being able to take a corner at speed. Think of Hellfire... What makes it the ultimate protouring car. By GW's definition, "It's truly long distance comfortable, easily driving in stop and go traffic, and we know it's track capable (far in excess of most drivers ability)". If it never hit a track would we still think that? We know comfort and ease of driving are subjective criteria otherwise, the race car vs street car debates wouldn't be going on at events. Track capable however is objective. What would make a car have the appearance of being track capable yet still have the street manners GW defines. Big break kit, lowered stance, larger/wider than normal front wheels and tires (not too big) to fit the big break kit?

The ironic thing is most of those insane Drag Week cars put their cars to the test in the touring sense a helluva lot more than most "Pro Touring" cars.

Carry on.... or not. :cheers:

Nobody knows...:D

Bottomless money pit that's lucky to ever get driven by its owner :y0!:

That's easy enough...

:D

Mkelcy:

Sounds like a great trip, one I would enjoy myself.

You hit it right on the nose when you said, "Race Track time to me, only serves to demonstrate the capabilities of the car, ........".

Some of what DOES define a PT car is it's capabilities. Some which should only be tried on an off road venue to be legal and hopefully be safe(r).

It is simple, performance IS part of the definition. Until someone knows the prformance of their car, how can you tell is you were successful with the build?

Grand Touring:
A grand tourer (Italian: gran turismo) (GT) is a performance or luxury automobile capable of high speed or spirited long-distance driving. The most common format is a two-door coupé with either a two-seat or a 2+2 arrangement.

The term derives from the Italian phrase gran turismo, a tribute to the tradition of the grand tour, used to represent automobiles regarded as grand tourers, able to make long-distance, high-speed journeys in both comfort and style. The English translation is grand touring.

Thanks again for writing.

Ty O'Neal

Flash:

Thanks for this post.

You Got It!

Yes, it is Ironic. Drag week could easily be a template for a PT adventure.

I am so surprised at the resistance to taking something you build and trying it out? I've tried to keep the "Proving grounds" limited to legal venues, and somehow that means Competitive Racing?

This is a nice topic for conversation, it's also too bad that when the name, "Pro Touring", was created, it wasn't closer to the already established name "Grand Touring" as they are essentially the same thing.

A grand tourer (Italian: gran turismo) (GT) is a performance or luxury automobile capable of high speed or spirited long-distance driving. The most common format is a two-door coupé with either a two-seat or a 2+2 arrangement.

The term derives from the Italian phrase gran turismo, a tribute to the tradition of the grand tour, used to represent automobiles regarded as grand tourers, able to make long-distance, high-speed journeys in both comfort and style. The English translation is grand touring.

Am I wrong on this? (Please respond to this, I would really like to know.

Take care, and thanks again.

Ty O'Neal

Chris:

Good post!

I would like to see what appears to be a Vintage car doing all that the best PT cars can. Looking fast is always cool, however looking stock would be a much more difficult way to roll.

Thanks,

Ty

Cosmos Mentis: (Universal Thinker/Mind?)

Very cool car. The main reason it, it wasn't part of the original posters question.

Did I mention, that is a cool car?

Thanks, (Please let me know on your screen name, ok?)

Ty O'Neal

Neil:

Thnaks for responding.

If this is the depth at which you classify Car types, I think there is nothing wrong with that. I do believe if you explore things a bit deeper you would find numerous differences in all the segments you mentioned, but then maybe not?

All I know is I am not trying to cut anyones car/car project down nor belittle their efforts, I am stating that words have meanings, the thread asked for meanings.

Thanks,

Ty O'Neal

Greg,

Thanks for the post.
(Answers in your text.)

Ty,

Big 'Seinfeld' show fan (addict?) here. :_paranoid

Originally the screen name was 'compos mentis' aka 'sound mind', based on this scene with Larry David and his hilarious (IMHO) over the top portrayal of George Steinbrenner (see 1:15-1:50 min mark on vid if interested).

Then it went to 'cosmos mentis'...just to see who was paying attention.

:popcorn2:

:beathorse

Love that portrayal of him

Everybody out . I got eggplant on my mind . Costanza get me couple of those calzones right now . Pronto . Move out . Big Stein wants an eggplant calzone.

Must have one . Everybody out . Out .

Thanks, now fixating on eggplant calzones...lol.

Perfect use of a pro-touring car on a hot nite would be to turn on the a/c while making a run through a drive-thru place that has great food.

Rolling your power window down on one of these old heaps should impress too.

:D

Not looking to re-open the PT definition debate...just some irony IMO.
 

Jay and Tim (at the 7 min mark) go for a short blast in Tim Allen's Bodie Stroud built '68 Camaro.

They describe how well it rides/drives/accelerates and the excellent build quality.

For Tim the ultimate compliment seemed to be when Jay said 'it's like something that would be built today.'

'Pro-touring' is never mentioned.

What world do they live in?

:D

Jay just calls it 'modern hot rodding'.

When you peel the layers back - that's all it really is. Hot rodding. The exact same goals teens, and young men, in the 40's/50's/60's/70's/80's had. Make it faster. Make it louder. Make it handle better. Make it lighter. They cut the roof - we cut the inner wheel wells... They put a Caddy in a Ford - we put an LS in a Mopar (well really only one guy is that stupid)... They put "bigs and littles" on - we put "staggered" sizes on.


Same **** different day.

Ain't it the truth!

I'd say one difference is the money involved. Even considering inflation, I'd bet a high dollar car of the 40's & 50's wouldn't touch an average car's cost today. Of course, they didn't have many of the type of products we do today, such as big brakes, electronic wizardry, sound equipment, et. al.
I think that's why the Rat Rod deal was born. Like them or not, they are more like many of the original rodders cars. Some of these cars are pure art, just without the shiny stuff. I am quickly becoming a fan.

Bill

I think Jay said it best! Modern Hot Rodding

Great Video!