A note to my brutha from anotha mutha
 

Garage Dog,

I've been lurking on lateral-g for a while now...........about the only thing that I'm looking at on a continuous basis is your pages on your project.

We're doing similar projects..........I have a 1973 TVR 2500M (british handbuilt car, tube frame, fiberglass body, 1 pc tilt front end) that is getting a 21st century update. About the only stock TVR thing on mine is the fiberglass body. I'm building a new frame for it and am using C4 front/rear suspension and an LT1/T56.

I'm also running into similar issues with putting a modern/wide track suspension into a car design that is 30 to 40 years old. I'm doing it a little differently.....I narrowed the suspension as much as possible and still retain stock geometries (narrowed 2.5" per side in the rear, and 7" up front), and hopefully that will just let me flare the fenders slightly. Slightly in this case is 4 to 5" in the rear, and 3" max up front.

I did think of going the route you did and widening the body, but didn't want to have to deal with custom front/rear glass, and the front end is kinda curvy -- a 8" wide section in the middle of the car would look out of balance. Kinda hard to explain, but should be easy to see when I post up pics of my progress later this coming weekend.

At this point in my project, the frame is about 70% complete, welded to the chassis table at the right ride height/rake, and I'm putting in the mounts for the front and rear suspension. Your project and mine share a distant heritage -- I'm using steel VW floorpans in place of the fiberglass floor that was in place originally. Something about having my arse 5" off the ground with just fiberglass supporting and protecting me didn't sit well.............. :eek:

Looking good -- keep the updates coming!! Good to see someone else who thinks that PT isn't something that's exclusive to muscle cars :yes:

-jeff d, aka "orphancars"
Fort Worth, TX
1986 Fiero GT/V8
1973 TVR 2500M/V8

Yo Bro !!
 

Hi Jeff !!

Sounds like a very cool project and I can't wait to see the pics of your progress and solutions. There are some great minds here at Lat-G with some awesome skill sets and build experiences. When we get into trouble - there's plenty of help available. Check the site for other C5/6 stuff as many people are using it and can provide additional solutions when asked.

Yell if I can provide any support - Best of luck and stay in touch.

Jim

Waiting on Parts ...
 

Got the Torque Tube back today shortened it 21 inches from stock.

Need to get the prop shaft shortened - so if anyone knows who can shorten an Alum Metal Matrix Composite vette drive shaft - please let me know as I'm having a tough time sourcing someone. Attached pics of the prop shaft for those that have never seen the internals of a vette torque tube. The rubber donut in the middle is to control whipping of the shaft due to harmonic distortions.

Ordered a new Camaro oil pan last week. Hope to have it for the weekend so I can put everything back together and do the final body and chassis measurements.

Wrestling with the type of frame to do now. A 2 x 4 box perimeter with tube backbone was my first design, now I'm thinking a complete tube frame.... To put a square box frame in a car that doesn't have a flat surface has me wondering if the full tube better matches the style/era of the vehicle. Plus Porsche always used tubes in their race cars. But the 2 x 4 would be easier to fab, less expensive and maybe lighter. Thoughts anyone ?? Jim

It takes some time but they come around . I was the first guy to put flames on a Porsche.. it got some me some strange looks with up turned noses but all the people in that world who to me counted loved it.. and I dig what Jim is doing! My secretary has a 356 Conv D and I have two 935's and a 962 in the vintage stable.. so I am a guy who likes a littel power with my Porsche's . Keep us posted on your project I think it is cool as can be . Here's is my boat rocker


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6.../th_1272ss.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6.../th_front1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...%20R/th_RA.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6.../th_guages.jpg

This may help...........
 

GarageDog,

It's for this reason that I keep all my old magazines. The Kit Car July '03 issue had some good info on just this sort of thing.

They were running a series on one guy that was building a Ferrari 250 GTO replica from the ground up using a tube frame and C5 running gear/driveline. I can scan the article if you need it, but the important thing is this:

http://driveline-service.com/
Drive Line Services
Concord, CA
925-682-3340
"Russ"

Hope this helps!

-jeff d

ps -- pics and an intro coming soon..promise!!

Hi Jeff,

Thanks for the info dude ! I had also been following the Last Chance Garage articles and Joel Heinke's GTO buildup - I thought it was a great idea and buildup details. I called Driveline Service a couple weeks back and the person that did the AMMC driveshafts passed away and the current owner doesn't want to do those anymore. So I'm still fishing....

Joel also belongs to the North Cal Kit Car Club (and owns a wicked cobra) so if your interested in his GTO build - you can get additional detailed info and pics at their club web site @

http://www.nckcc.com/january2004news.pdf

They only show links for their 2005 - 2007 newsletters - so if you type in the month and year you'd like to see into the browser line - those are still on their server in the background. (example: nckcc.com/march2003news.pdf)

I noticed that they just started his project back up in KitCar again last month.

Very cool that you jumped in there to help me out! That's what's great about Lat-G and it's always much appreciated.

YES, I want to see those pics SOON !

:lol:

Hi ChevyThunder !

Thanks for the support and the kind words of encouragement. I can only hope my Porsche brethren can appreciate my project. I have been a member of the 356 Registery for over 15 years and really dig the 356/911 cars and all the history of the Porsche racing and engineering. I love the efficiency of the German design and how the car performs and handles with only 100 hp. I can totally understand the heritage and a persons wanting to do a spot-on restoration of these cars because they are soo cool. I guess I'll just have to get over it if they can't accept it.... because I wanted to do something different while still showing what a great design the car was/is.

I grew up with 340 6 pack darts, a 440 mag 69 dart, 351c Fairlane, 67 vette, - etc, good old america HP and I felt it would be fun (driving and engineering) a hybrid. If I'm wrong - it will still be a fun car for me.

Now you sir have way too many cool cars and are having far to much fun with them !!! And I really dig the purple flames - well done ! Let's drop an LS7 in that baby and really rock the boat !

Jim, Another very jealous boat rocker.

Here's how I got my 356 Outlaw idea. Add to my passion for the 356 - my passion for bloomington gold, topflight or survivor C2 vettes and C5/6 technology - with the following site, and you'll understand why I'm twisted like I am.

http://www.partsobsolete.com


Check the Outlaw and Workshop links.

Lou Giglioti was selling a carbon fiber shaft for the C5. He might be able to make a shorter one.
LGmotorsports.com

I totally agreee....
 

GD,

I totally agree with this:

"guess I'll just have to get over it if they can't accept it.... because I wanted to do something different while still showing what a great design the car was/is."

I get a little bit of that from the TVR crowd. Caught a little bit of flak when I did an article for the TVR newsletter. My personal experience is that there is ALWAYS a contingent out there for any marque that wants to preserve/restore at any cost. I usually counter those type of folks by saying the car is not factory original once the factory air is let out of the tires!

My TVR was so far gone that either to restore or restify would take the same amount of effort or cubic dollars to do. Same thing with the Fiero -- it had survived a front end impact, had the electrical system cut up, had parts missing/others bolted on.....didn't feel bad making it what I wanted it to be. Besides it's a Fiero!!! There are enough other folks out there that bought those cars and squirrelled them away as investments.....wonder how that is working out for them :)

PS -- sorry that info didn't work out for the DS :rolleyes: But iddn't that part of the joy of doing stuff like this -- to do something that someone hasn't done before?


-jeff d

PS -- This weekend I have a wife sponsored "wife-free-saturday" -- lots of work to be done on the TVR, lots of pics.............and a few of the Fiero thrown in as well.....more later!

We have a Winner !
 

Looks like DynoTech Engineering (Troy, Michigan) not only can they shorten and weld an AMMC driveshaft - they have many replacements in stock for most hipo vehicles. (Hey Marty - they have them for your truck !!) Started as a GM research lab.

25% stronger then same size chrome moly steel ??? wow. I don't know what that means - but I want it !!! LOL

http://www.dynotecheng.com/

Weekend Update
 

Got some parts this week.

Installed a new Camaro oil pan and put the motor back in. Installed the torque tube and setup the transaxle. 1/2 inch between the axle housing and the right fwd lower a-arm mount. Need to raise the engine an inch. Some final body alignment and it's time to cross brace it and get it attached to the jig.

After much thought, I've decided to do a complete tube frame for the car. Dual tube 1.5 perimeter with the tube center backbone. The cage for the transaxle will be removable. Finishing up the drawings and time to locate the tubing.

Any comments or ideas post away. Thx. Jim

lookin good, almost done.....

Phase 3 begins
 

Ordered a tube bender today. 10 days for delivery.

6 in radus die for 1.5 x .095 and .120 thickness and the EZ Bend software.

http://www.pro-tools.com/200.htm

Super helpful tech support that walked me through my selection.

Here we go..... 1 garage chassis coming up.

Jim

Are we bending yet???
 

Jim,

Have you started bending tube yet? Let me know -- I'm about to pull the trigger on a pro-tools bender -- undecided between the one you bought and the 105................want to know what your experience is with the HMP-200.

I'm still cutting, welding, grinding on the frame for the TVR. Bottom half is the rectangular tube I show in my project page, but the centersection and roll cage will all be tube. I'll be ready for that part of the project once I have all the suspension and engine/trans mounts done. Also still have to figure out how to put the floorpans in. I get one thing figured out, 20 more things still to go..........


thx,

-jeff d

Wow it has been 30 days since the last post i wonder if he has the car done or if the bender is kicking his butt. Should we call his wwife and ask if he ever came out of the garage? Should we be worried yet? Or give him a few more days.

Rodger

Nag, Nag, nag
 

Hi Guys,

Haven't gotten much done on the project lately. My airline is in the final stage of adding a new fleet of aircraft and going through FAA proving runs, inspections and in-service approval process. And 2 weeks back we bought 2 additional airlines to add to our operation plus their aircraft - so it's been a little busy at the office. I do read Lat-G every day to keep up on everyone progress - you guys constantly amaze me !

I did receive my bender last week and have it assembled - just haven't bent anything yet. I feel it's an excellent purchase, very well built unit and will work perfect for a project of this size. If I were doing several chassis or purchasing one for a business where speed was an issue - I'd step up to an air/assist that bends 180 degrees. Pro-Tools does make others - and it's all made in the USA which is a real selling point for me. I also purchased the 2020 software and have spent a day or so installing and establishing the specific die ratio and other stuff for the 1.5 die I bought, getting my templates setup and sketching the base chassis design.

Couple hundred feet of DOM .120 tube is on order and I'll be picking it up Thursday !!

I'll get back to the fun stuff this weekend, promise !!

Jim

I appreciate the craftsmanship and the thinking outside the box but to me these cars are best left close to stock. i guess because I have always wanted one. I hate to see one cut up. hopefully the body stays close to original since i think porsche got it right the first time. i thought putting in a 350hp VW based turbo motor in one would be cool most porsche purists would be pissed with that. But After all it is your car and maybe I will change my mind when i see it when this is finished.

Bend something...
 

Tube bender setup and tuned. Works like a champ ! I got some 11 and 14 gauge EW tube (my DOM .125 won't be in until Monday, bummer) and ran tests to see what kinda bends it could produce. Pretty nice - just a very slight drop on the inside of the bend (about a 16th) but the rest looked good. It takes about 2 minutes to bend a 90 degree. I'll do a test on the .125 to see how that goes - but I don't expect anything different.

Jeff, I recommend the bender for this level of work. PS, I checked your site the other day and cracked up with the President pic and quote - and it's nice to see your TVR coming together !

Rodger, I sure could use your shop full of people and tools - you are a lucky guy !! I'm still waiting to see that truck painted !!

SteveMcQ, I totally understand your statement and beleive me it was hard to cut it up and do something radical like this to a breed of cars that I REALLY like. I have been a 356 fanatic for many years and I can only hope I do it justice. My plan is to use as much Porsche stuff that I can and be as close to the original look as possible. Thanks for your comments sir.

Jim

re reading my post i might have come across like some kind of opinionated snob. i am glad it wasn't taken that way.

what kind of bender is that? looks like a nice simple design.

SteveMcQ - no problem, I understand where you're coming from and I asked myself those same questions - and still do every time I walk past it. The bender is a Pro-Tools MP-200. It's $500 plus whatever die you select - and they have a truckload of different sizes all made in the USA. I looked at the sponsor list here and didn't see anyone representing this type of product - maybe I'll give them a call.

Jeff, I really like the 120 version too. The only reason I didn't buy it was it requires a stationary mount to the floor. The 200 is a tabletop version that doesn't require any mounting. It's heavy enough that it sets on the floor and with 3 feet of tube in it didn't move or wobble at all. The 120 would be a great purchased too - and more accurate with a greater bending range. Either unit will be a great purchase for you I'm sure.


http://www.pro-tools.com/200.htm

Cobbler's kids never have any shoes......
 

Hey Jim,

Thanks for the feedback on the bender -- sounds like the one you have will have a twin in my shop soon. The feedback on the bend radius is what I was looking for. You also answered my question on whether or not the 200 had to be mounted to a table, floor, etc.

I'll need one to bend some 1.5/.080 wall tube for some parts of the frame and some 1.75/.120 for a roll bar/cage/etc.

So you saw my feeble attempt at a website? I got a start at it, but haven't finished it off. I spend 8-11 hours in front of a computer for work, and after that I have stuff around the house to get done or work to do on the cars. At the end of the day the last thing I want to do is get back in front of a computer :D

I should get it completed.............I have several pages teed up to document the Fiero build, should just start putting the TVR stuff up there as I get it done.

Misc pics are at http://orphancars.com/pictures


-jeff d

Wow, 4 months ....
 

Life just gets in the way. Finished adding a new fleet of aircraft to our airline, and then they went out and bought 2 more airlines to merge into ours.... who knows what a mess that will be.

Painted the house, stained 3 decks, spent a week at my sisters helping get her house ready to sell so she can move back to IND, and put in a raised bed garden to keep the misses happy at the home front - 24 posts, 10 tons of pea gravel, many truckloads of mulch and I still have the fence to finish over the next couple weeks.... ugh.

But all is not lost, I have been ordering all the parts and tools for the car !!

Mostly NOS Porsche stuff - headlight assy, turn signals, license light, backup lights, lenses, grills, switches, etc. Switching the 65 vented side window surrounds to non-vented 63 style to get rid of the ugly wing vents. Think I'll use the Harley Classic 7 in headlights that I saw in the orange 55 chevy in Columbus - and LED bulbs in all the turn signal and markers from AAW.

Tube and Bar stock benders, bead roller, planishing hammer, E-wheel, body hammers, slappers, dollies, strecher/shrinker, hand shear, combo shear/brake/roller, etc. DOM Tubing is here, backbone U's and some assorted brackets and suspension adjusters. Brake rotors for the stock vette setup.

Got the C5 vette frame up on Ebay right now. Do me a favor and buy it !! :lol:

I've started to plan the tube chassis locations in the car and began removing stuff off the bottom that's in the way - like the Jack Spurs, body braces, etc.

It's nice to get outta the office and back to the garage !

Jim

Lookin' good Jim!!!

John

Amazing Ride
 

I have always wanted a 356 porsche in fact it was one of the first cars I photshopped(See Pic)
That is going to be one amazing ride and with the C5 goodies :hail: WOW!!

Wish I had the abilities or patience to do something like that.
[IMG]http://inlinethumb22.webshots.com/89...600x600Q85.jpg[/IMG]

Zee

Wow !!!

Zee that's awesome man ! Now that's what I'm talking about.

I was checking yesterday and found several 356 cars without engines for around 7 K. I plan to track my build and see what the costs are - so maybe you should start saving now and build one too !!!

Really enjoyed the photochop - Thanks ! :thumbsup:

Jim

Is there any way you could send me a larger copy of that ( the lower pic )? I always loved the 356. I don't even know what to say about this build other then :bow: :hail: [email protected]

Thanks Jim.

If you could please send me the list of 356"s I have been contemplating a 67-68 mustang build but a 356 will be right up there if i find the right one.[email protected]

87wildside:If you click on the pic it will make it take you to my webshots gallery with a larger pic.

Hi Zee,

Couple places routinely post 356 cars.

Best place is the 356 Registry www.356Registry.org Check the classified pages.

Ebay has a yellow 64B coupe with no motor right now.

www.Craigslist.org Check California area for the most possibilities.

Bob Campbell sells a bunch at www.356Sales.com

I found mine at Bob Campbell's place for 6 K. It was a complete car - just not assembled or painted. Motor/Trans/Suspension and Interior needed to be rebuilt. All metal work was done. Well, until I attacked it with a sawsall and wiz wheel ... but that's another story. :lol:

If I see one I'll PM you.

Jim

Kinda funny but I was just talking to my wife about building her a 356 Cabriolet replicar. There are a couple out there that look pretty cool. One uses a Honda engine and the other uses a Subaru. Both are mid-motors with a nice sized trunk.

Shiny Side Up!
Bill

WOW!! That chop sure puts a perspective on things! Looks great!

Jim? When ya gonna finish it? It's going to be AWESOME!!!:hail:

John

Hi John,

My goal is to have the all the fab work done by the end of the year so I can send it out for paint 1st qtr 08. I'm not getting much work done on it this summer - so I hope to spend a bunch of time in the garage this fall. Ordered a bunch more parts this week. Building the A-Arm mount brackets this week. That big pile of tubing is calling for some attention. I doubt I'll have it done by Columbus - but who knows.... end of summer 08 is a more reasonable time frame. You'll have racked up a bunch of miles before I ever hit the road - but I'll be coming !

Jim

Parts
 

More parts arrived. Front 3 are interior lights. Center is the light under the dash pad. The other 2 go at the top of the B piller. They don't look like it - but they are 3 posn rocker switches, left is on, right is off and center uses the door pins. A nice part if anyone is looking for a simple square light in the kick panels, under dash or trunk.

The back 3 are exterior rear lights. 2 that go on the bumper facing up for the license plate light. The other is the backup light assy. That's it for all the interior and exterior lights except the headlight bulbs. Gotta run over to the Harley Davidson store and see if they can identify the bulbs in the orange 55 chevy at Columbus.

Also blasted and primered the bumper brackets - I needed to get something finished so it feels like I'm moving forward....

WOW I just read this entire thread and it is extremely inspirational, I gotto go work on something now.

Little Update - been awhile...
 

Parts coming back from the waterjet shop. Really amazing what those guys and their machines can do.

Rear upper frame/a-arm brackets and adjusters. 4130 plate cut for a dual 1.5 tube frame and M12 1 3/4 adjuster. Changing the adjusters from the lower arms (stock posn) - to the upper one's so I can remove the lower transaxle cage without worrying about an alignment. (doing it like Rodger/John's Nova and Johnson's G-Force Cuda) Still need to round all the edges and mill in the pocket for the adjuster. Will replace the adjusters with stainless ARP 12 points and stainless eccentric washers - should be purdy...

Starting Backbone
 

Well, it's been way to long guys....

Started fabbing up the center backbone portion of the chassis. Had to build up the front sections of the exhaust to get final measurements for the tunnel width. 2 exhaust tubes at 2.5 plus two chassis tubes of 1.5 plus some space on both sides. Some 2.5 straight pieces, four 45s, two 90s and two 2.5 header flanges. (All from Summit for $200)

I plan to wrap the entire exhaust and add some heat shielding in the tunnel.

Also bent up a chassis tube to see how it fit in. Front a-arm attachment tabs will hopefully come in this week from the waterjet guys. Been waiting a month - but the holidays slow everyone down I guess.

Jim

Exhaust Fab Tool
 

Reading this months Super Rod (Feb pg 108) and they listed the little alignment tool they use to align and tack weld their exhaust work. I built one outta a scrap of 2.5 tube and it worked great.

Take a piece of tube about 2 inches long - drill four 1 in holes every 90 degrees - split one side - and tack on a couple hose clamps. Install and tack through the holes - made it so easy to hold the tube square while you zero a tack weld !

Hello Jim!

We both subscribe same mag ! I love Super rod because it has best "how to do it " tech and detailed project features than any other magazine i know.

That exhaust trick was from Jeff Lilly restorations. I think they are one of the "best kept secrets" in wery high quality fab work.

Have you seen this :

http://www.jefflilly.com/Fabrication/new.html

Hundrets of really awsome tech tips :wow: !!!!!!

Wow, Thanks ! There is a bunch of info on their site and I haven't been there before. Thanks !!

i really like this project :thumbsup: ... keep the pics coming