I have to say I'm very disappointed. My hope was this would be closer to the cost of your G-Body kits than an F-Body kit. I waited quite a while for this news and I simply can't justify the cost for this platform.

That is unfortunate but what were you expecting? this is a not comparable to ANYthing on the market that I know of,
RS chassis is 21,000 for all comparable parts and you need to replace the entire floor!
DSE is over 9000 and is control arms and struts up front
I think ours will end up at 13,999.00 and this will be with a new 9" and probably JRI double adjustable shocks.

I suppose it won't be for everyone, we will probably do control arms and struts in the future as well to cover off that market segment as well.

Just finalizing pricing
With Ridetech single adjustable (custom Valved)
Front Subframe
Mid sub frame connector kit
Rear torque arm

10,999.00

Rear end extra 3199.00 9" 31 spline Tru Track Nodular 3rd member

This will allow true dual exhaust (our headers will be required)

Here is the deal tell us you read it here first we will take 1000.00 off the total price on orders placed and paid for by the end of September

Just curious... What will pricing be for just the front subframe? When will pics be available?

Front sub will be 7159.00
but you will also need the sub frame connector part as well because it incorporates the trans mount. the factory torque arm should still mount to the trans as it does now.
will have pics this week

what if your running a t-56 and not factory T-5 trans? Can you get the rear end housing with camber and toe?

It is all designed around a T56 but the trans X member is adjustable so pretty much any trans will fit (T56 needs the tunnel modified a bit) the factory Torque arm would likely not work with a T56 as it is so different

I can have speedway to build the housing it would need to be a floater though. which is totally possible. you would need to provide the specs you are looking for.

Something more in line with the 3rd Gen community. Not blaming you, just frustrated because this still means no real options for most of us.

What I was expecting/hoping for was an SLA kit integrated into the strut tower area that worked with a stock/stock style K-member. In my mind it would use either the extreme uprights or stock vette uprights with a more common damper.

Kit for the older mustangs (yes, i know its a penske damper):
http://www.passportsoccer.com/wp-con...suspension.jpg

Sorry. That set up would just not work with the current geometry. and since it works so well why change it. that is why it is more like the DSE /Roadster shop Mustang kit and not the one you reference.

Here's how I think you could differentiate yourself from that market segment:

Viking Crusader struts w/ stock location springs (allows for 275 front tire or 315 if you get the offset perfect) and rear coil overs valved for autox. Currently the choices are Koni, custom AFCO or JRI. You could slot in the middle, be affordable and valved to your recommended spring rate

Front springs, weight jacks and Camber plates

Drop spindle w/ ackerman correction that bolts on OEM 4th gen Camaro OR Willwood SLC56 calipers

A splined front sway bar and then recommend (or even offer) a matched rear bar

Your current torque arm and bolt-in adjustable cross member

You could package up the front for ~$3,000 or $4,250 w/ K-Member/A-Arms (if you even care to compete in that space) If it were me, I'd offer A-Arms for the stock K-Member so you wouldn't send a customer to another vendor and because the A-Arms are easy to design. So call it $3,500 for the front w/ A-Arms

The rear should be priced like your other torque arm packages @ ~$2,500

That would sell like HOTCAKES!

The price point would be:

More expensive than Konis package but w/ superior shocks

About the same as an AFCO package but solving the anti-ackerman issue

Far less than a JRI package

we will probably go down that road as well. but wanted to start with the high end product like our other Extreme line up. we have 5 other cars to do as well c2 c3 Corvette Square body C10 as a couple examples. and yes bolt on stuff for all of them as well.

Consumer: Hey, we want 3rd gen Camaro stuff because the currant available upgrades are just ok.

Company: Here is what we have, it costs this much and is the best performing design currently out right now.

Consumer: Wow, yeah never mind I just want modified parts that are already available because its cheaper. Why couldn't you just do this instead?

Yep, that’s not my stance though. Not sure how far I want to go until I see pics and fab time involved but it will be a better option than others. I’m sure you need a test car that is not shop owned right Blake?!

LOL i will take that as humor !! it would have been EASY to do caster/camber plates and LCA's

yes non shop owned test cars are always GREAT!!

going to try and post god pics today!! weekend PORN!!

https://imgur.com/JlVQRQu

https://imgur.com/9X53EMG

https://imgur.com/AzGZxSN



This shows the center section "Subframe Connector" part the front pads were designed as a roll bar mounting point as well with top and bottom plates that can bolt or weld in.

A little more involved that LCA's and camber plates hence the cost, but much less work then replacing the entire floor since it all contours to the bottom side and rockers.

Enjoy ill be back in the office Monday to take CC#'s

LOL... nailed it.

From the start I've pointed out what was wanted. Even referencing the SLA kits that exist. Dont start blaming the potential customers for someone elses design decisions.

My comment wasn’t directed at anyone. It was a general statement that can be applied to almost anything in the aftermarket automotive world. Remember when everyone wanted carbon fiber first gen stuff and when a company built exactly that everyone complained that it was to expensive?

Well Blake already answered why your idea wasn't used. Why build a kit like everyone else or copy someone elses design when they can use their design that follows their philosophy and expected performance levels?

Copy? No. But even the more enthusiastic 3rd gen owners arent exactly thinking of installing a suspension that is that expensive or involved.

Theres actually little available for the front suspension on these cars. Even brake kits are mostly from very small companies that modify existing spindles. Spring wise though is an ironic bright spot as Moog makes a ton of different rate OEM replacement springs.

Comes down to frustration that many of us have wanted something that is reasonably priced and is a reasonable amount of work for a reasonable improvement.

The few people that eventually will by this setup will not be disappointed but for the rest of us its back to the drawing board.

Ok, so you’ve already said to us all here that your disapointed and not going to spend the money for this setup, so sit back, be patient, and wait for Blake’s more economical setup to come around. Just remember that performance, be it engine, transmission, wheels, or suspension is ALWAYS rated in dollar signs.

I think the disappointment comes from the expectation Blake himself setup in Post #1 of this very thread along with his comments that they never did figure out "Step one":

They went to "Step 3" first. I think I understand why they did. Pieces of "Step 1" are available and the average guy may not see the difference between what is currently available and a quality solution to the platform's issues. However, "Step 3" (while far and away better than any current package) is the complete other end of the cost spectrum from "Step one" for a car that can't justify the expense. Furthermore, they set the expectation for a first offering that was in the middle of the cost range.

I think the 3rd Gen community was hoping for "Step one" and a offering that aligned with the expectation they themselves set: as stated in Post #1 of this very thread.


"Much better" involves a solving the inherent geometry issues of the platform without breaking the bank, which to me, means:

1. High quality shocks that cost at least slightly less than the entire f*'ing car (just saying @DSE)

2. Solving the massive scrub radius, anti-ackerman, front roll center and antiquated steering box issues by simply offering a quality spindle. That alone would be a HUGE money maker for them.

3. Offering the torque arm solution they already have available for other platforms. (This was the only one they offer with this announcement)


Again, I understand offering the Extreme far end of the cost scale first so that the first cars that go out into the wild kick ass, but it is EXTREME. I REALLY do wish I could find even the slightest reason in my mind to justify the expenditure, I cant.

Building a spindle to correct the anti ackerman may seem easy, but would cause many other problems. First to get pro ackerman the spindle steering arm would have to be in the barrel of the wheel. Which 1 will cause the steering arm to be very short and 2 will cause the outer tie rod end to be higher than the original. So maybe you can get a drag link that has higher inner tie rod mounting points and correct the bump steer, but ultimately the short spindle arms will make the steering very fast and the box will no longer hit the internal stops.

Time changes ideas and goals changed as we went through the process. The idea of trying to IMPROVE anything that is on the market now with simple bolt on's was just not going to happen, how do you improve the geometry? with a strut? you can move the Lower ball joint forward and out slightly. The scrub again, pretty difficult to make any improvement there when the strut dictates the wheel fitment. We actually looked at using the our Forged spindle with the strut to make some gains but there is just not enough material to safely mount the strut to. Upper caster / camber plates what do you do there, make a fancy little gear to adjust it with, you can only do so much with the factory locations. We did improve the torque arm and added coil overs to the rear. BUT due to the factory set up we had to come up with some way to mount the front of the torque arm. Well we did BUT you need to use both components. The front is a radical departure from what anyone has done. We are confidant there is enough VALUE in the package that it will catch on, But who knows. We will see. To just do what everyone else has done made no practical sense. then it is just becomes
"Well i can get so and so's for this much "

Compare our offering to the other main players in the market.
Let me know if there is any additional Value in our package
Here is how ours breaks down
Front "SUBFRAME" Same components and geometry as the Extreme subframe for a first or second gen 6999.00 yes it needs to weld in but it will be easier than mini tubs!!!

Mid Frame connector kit. includes trans mount and torque arm mount as well as front roll cage mounts and room for long tube headers (yes you need to buy our headers as well Sorry) and dual exhaust.
999.00 you could actually use this all on its own. if a guy was doing it in stages this would be the first part to install.

Torque arm fully bolt in (there is some trimming) and you will need a 9" as all the brackets are designed for the 3" tube also the torque arm mounting billet parts. (again if the 7.5" diff was worth using we may have built parts to mount it) but it is again not worth spending any money on IMO 2999.00

I will apologize if you think I need to, for building a product that ended up to be MUCH more that some of you expected.
I didn't read any post like this when DSE came out with the Mustang program, that was ALL GOOD, not sure I understand what the difference is? You think the same thing will happen when we do Mustang parts??lol
I will make sure to NOT say it will start with bolt in parts !!

People have no clue how much work it takes to develop parts and test em and figure out a way to build them efficiently and then sell em at some kind of a profit.

There is an ass for every seat and a girl for every guy. Every price point serves a market. McDonalds sells a burger just like Tahoe Joes. They all serve demographic. The guys at McDonalds will complain its to expensive at Tahoe joes and he guys at Tahoe Joes will complain the McDonalds food will kill you in 30 days.

I'm sure the product will work great and serve the market your after. I'm sure there are plenty of people who will spend way more then they should on a car. I work with those guys daily.

Only the people who can't afford it or don't to afford it complain that something is too nice. I broke up with a girl once who was too pretty and had too much money. I wanted something more normal.

:lol: This logic might explain why you opened up a shop.

Blake, and Speedtech crew, - I'm excited to see these parts hit the market! I'm sure there will be buyers who understand the value. Anyone who has built a car before understands its better to spend more the first time than to buy mediocre parts and upgrade again as soon as one's skills or desires to go faster "outgrow" the mediocre stuff.

Matt

So I priced DSE front suspension, rear suspension and subframe connecters. With the single adjustable JRI it was $8500. Then a Turn one 12-1 steering box is $1400. So in the end its close to the same price. Will the SLA be better? Hard to argue with the DSE-Z performance but its also Kyle Tucker driving and $6000 in shocks...
If you cant fab then neither is going to be cheap

You'll also need a set of custom headers. That's another $1600 for the ones Speedtech has for their extreme subframe. Not sure how much the DSE ones are.

Oh and possibly steering column. I know at least for the 68 camaro with the extreme subframe the steering column most people have won't work . Blake might want step in the that if that'll be an added cost for people to.

Headers are 1499.00 sorry 321 stainless and they fit, what are you going to do.
steering column will not need to be changed just shorten the stick out. that column is to integral to the wiring and stuff to just change it.

THAT is called Homework right there ^^^^^^ we did ours also.
the SLA HAS to be better, but i doubt Kyle will tell you that. LOL we are working with JRI right now to have the single adjustable the standard offering in all the Extreme systems also.

Not knocking you or your product Blake. I have one of your extreme subrames and I'll also be needing the $1499 headers or I'll figure out another route using hacked up $200 ebay headers who knows.

Just putting it out there so the 3rd gen owners will know about the additional costs.

The steering column is something I wasn't aware of when I bought my subframe from you for my 68 camaro because it wasn't stated on your website at the time. No biggie for me, I just shortened my column to fit. Again just bringing that up if it was an additional cost for 3rd gen owners.

Any idea if the exhaust manifolds and cats that come with the E-ROD motor will work with your subframe? Living in CA, long tube headers are a no go unless I want to spend $500 every 2 years to get my car "smogged".

No idea, looking at the picture in the GM catalog if they look like the LT4 header then maybe but not the lt1 or ls3 or lsa as pictured any way

So.... pics?!?!?!

Pre production install pics final parts are arriving Monday from the laser cutter

[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/38a3J7A.jpg[/IMG]
Rear panhard mount with 5" of roll center adjustment.

[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/hazZmyJ.jpg[/IMG]

Retains stock fuel tank but adds a stronger pan hard support ans adjustment on chassis side

[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/4OyqG05.jpg[/IMG]

Shows rough cut out for the factory frame rail, the new design will make install and cutting very easy

[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/ZMS8wgW.jpg[/IMG]

Looking from the engine bay.

Beautiful...I hope I can afford it once I'm ready for it! Anyone know how much kids are selling for these days... I'll give you a deal if you purchase all 3!!!

I dont see any rear sway bar mounts?

They don't include a rear sway bar with their torque arm suspension. It's a $500 upgrade.

This upgrade is $14k then plus $3199 for the rear end. They might price them self out of the third gen market.