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-   -   Budget '69 Camaro Track Car - NO WHINERS! (https://www.lateral-g.net/forums/showthread.php?t=34130)

Vince@Meanstreets 05-27-2014 09:31 PM

That's why shops like mine exist. : )

I have a few customers that never knew how to check their oil levels.

Track Junky 05-28-2014 04:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GregWeld (Post 552872)
I know if I had kids at home - and work - and house stuff to attend to - the car might just get parked in the garage and forgotten about until it's time to run again.

Great point Greg. Maintenance is extremely important.
My work day is 12 hours long. I have 3 kids, a wife, and on top of that I'm a landlord which sometimes takes up a day away from my weekends. I enjoy working on my car but realistically I don't have the time to give it the maintenance it needs.

Once again......Thanks Vince. :thumbsup:

Ron Sutton 05-28-2014 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vegas69 (Post 552859)
Ron, Where does the C5/C6/Z06 Etc. sealed bearing assembly fit into this equation? The GM guys have the luxury of going with a ATS spindle that utilizes a c6 bearing pack. I know mine were still tight when I sold my car. Not that much road racing time, however.

Hey Todd,

They are a good option too. I covered it in another post. Go HERE .. and scroll down to post #444.

:Cheers:




intocarss 05-28-2014 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron Sutton (Post 552743)

Hey Guys,

A post I did on bearing thrust load capacities is here.


A post showing my new Track-Star hubs & the bearing size differences start on THIS PAGE. Be sure to read from post #427 to post #438.

The size & mass of the bearings define their ability to handle thrust loads ... and heat. A front hub bearing is a lot like a brake rotor. The larger it is the better its mass can handle the heat generated. The smaller it is, the higher the temps get & you get grease burn out.


The photos below show the sizes of bearings for reference.

Far left:
Timken LM11949 rated at 917# thrust load. (Most GM 58-78, Ford 55-69 & Chrysler 55-72)
2nd from left: Timken LM12748 or LM12749 rated at 922# thrust load. (GM 82+, Ford 70-89)
3rd from left: Timken LM12649 rated at 1130# thrust load. (GM B-body & 1/2T trucks & Ford some HD apps 63-72)
Far right: Timken 2687 rated at 1800# thrust load. (Road Course & Oval Race Cars)



Interesting stuff.. I went and checked my bearings today. It has PN LSB M12649 outter bearings on it

Flash68 05-28-2014 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vince@MSperfab (Post 552875)
That's why shops like mine exist. : )

I have a few customers that never knew how to check their oil levels.

Have always appreciated your attention to detail and safety Vince. :thumbsup:

But why ya gotta talk about me on the internet like that? :innocent:


Quote:

Originally Posted by intocarss (Post 553017)
Interesting stuff.. I went and checked my bearings today. It has PN LSB M12649 outter bearings on it

Looks like you coulda done a lot worse Jer! :thumbsup:

See ya in August. :popcorn2:

Track Junky 05-28-2014 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flash68 (Post 553029)
See ya in August. :popcorn2:

You holding out Dawg? :poke:

Vince@Meanstreets 05-28-2014 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flash68 (Post 553029)
Have always appreciated your attention to detail and safety Vince. :thumbsup:

But why ya gotta talk about me on the internet like that? :innocent:



I teach, they learn....well now you did it, I wasn't mentioning names.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Track Junky (Post 553034)
You holding out Dawg? :poke:

Sonoma? hello?

intocarss 05-28-2014 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flash68 (Post 553029)

Looks like you coulda done a lot worse Jer! :thumbsup:

See ya in August. :popcorn2:

I'm not complaining 1130# is better then 922#:thumbsup: . We'll see about Sonoma. I will be at BW in Sept


Quote:

Originally Posted by Track Junky (Post 553034)
You holding out Dawg? :poke:

Would I do that :underchair:

Ron in SoCal 05-28-2014 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron Sutton (Post 552976)
Hey Todd,

They are a good option too. I covered it in another post. Go HERE .. and scroll down to post #444.

:Cheers:




Hey Ron,

To the best of my knowledge there are three C5/C6 hubs: the standard C6, the Z06 which LG Motorsports sells with the larger rear bearing and the ZR1 which I believe is still only available at the dealer. I could be wrong, but as far as I can tell the ZR1 is the same as the Z06 with the exception of the ABS sensor and inner spline count. Do you know if the load rating is any different for these hubs?

Ron Sutton 05-29-2014 07:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron in SoCal (Post 553078)
Hey Ron,

To the best of my knowledge there are three C5/C6 hubs: the standard C6, the Z06 which LG Motorsports sells with the larger rear bearing and the ZR1 which I believe is still only available at the dealer. I could be wrong, but as far as I can tell the ZR1 is the same as the Z06 with the exception of the ABS sensor and inner spline count. Do you know if the load rating is any different for these hubs?

Hey Ron,

Yes, in that bearing you're referring to, the outer bearing is larger than the inner bearing & it is stronger. This makes the hub rated higher overall. But the weakest bearing is always the bearing that fails, regardless if it's on the inside or outside. The small one in the Z51 bearing is the same size as before, rated at 1060#.

As I mentioned in a previous thread, the bearing engineer I work with said this bearing will wear quicker than the big bearing stuff we're used to racing. So if you check the wheel/hub play & it starts to show excessive, simply replace it. If that happens often, then maybe you need a stronger spindle/bearing/hub assembly. If not, you're probably fine.


:cheers:


Track Junky 05-29-2014 07:24 AM

Ron, can you find out if you can get me a good set of bearings for a C4 hub?

Track Junky 05-29-2014 07:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by intocarss (Post 553060)
We'll see about Sonoma. I will be at BW in Sept

Cool. If my car doesn't brake before then I'll see you there. :thumbsup:

Vince@Meanstreets 05-29-2014 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Track Junky (Post 553101)
Ron, can you find out if you can get me a good set of bearings for a C4 hub?

You have a Baer hub which is basically a factory GM drum hub.

I remember a few years back...90's someone had a first gen hub that ran a larger outer bearing. I tried searching around but can't seem to find it here. I believe it was Herb Adams could be wrong.

Tobin makes a billet hub but I am unsure what bearings are used.

Ron in SoCal 05-29-2014 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron Sutton (Post 553096)
Hey Ron,

Yes, in that bearing you're referring to, the outer bearing is larger than the inner bearing & it is stronger. This makes the hub rated higher overall. But the weakest bearing is always the bearing that fails, regardless if it's on the inside or outside. The small one in the Z51 bearing is the same size as before, rated at 1060#.

As I mentioned in a previous thread, the bearing engineer I work with said this bearing will wear quicker than the big bearing stuff we're used to racing. So if you check the wheel/hub play & it starts to show excessive, simply replace it. If that happens often, then maybe you need a stronger spindle/bearing/hub assembly. If not, you're probably fine.


:cheers:





Makes perfect sense Ron. Thank you Sir :thumbsup:

rickpaw 05-29-2014 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vince@MSperfab (Post 553122)

Tobin makes a billet hub but I am unsure what bearings are used.

Tobin uses stock replacement Timken bearings for his hubs.

Vince@Meanstreets 05-29-2014 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rickpaw (Post 553124)
Tobin uses stock replacement Timken bearings for his hubs.

Thanks Tu, I wasn't sure.

Leroy Rochester 05-30-2014 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vince@MSperfab (Post 553122)
You have a Baer hub which is basically a factory GM drum hub.

I remember a few years back...90's someone had a first gen hub that ran a larger outer bearing. I tried searching around but can't seem to find it here. I believe it was Herb Adams could be wrong.

Tobin makes a billet hub but I am unsure what bearings are used.

On my '67, Maeco used either second gen hubs or SCP hubs on a custom spindle that had the big outer bearing. At the time, Mike really felt that was critical on the race applications. I don't think I've ever seen a first gen throw a shoe though, but I'm sure it's been an issue here and there.

Vince@Meanstreets 05-30-2014 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leroy Rochester (Post 553363)
On my '67, Maeco used either second gen hubs or SCP hubs on a custom spindle that had the big outer bearing. At the time, Mike really felt that was critical on the race applications. I don't think I've ever seen a first gen throw a shoe though, but I'm sure it's been an issue here and there.

Personally I haven't witnessed any failures on properly maintained cars. Most where due to neglect, lack of grease and improper free play.
Im not sure how long Gaetano went on his very first set before coming to me but there was a layer of dark grease at the outer bearing. I believe it was right after the 341. If he had a season on them its doing good. So far his bearings look fine but they normally get serviced 3 times a year.

Leroy Rochester 05-30-2014 11:09 AM

I was actually going to come back and mention that... I've seen a fair number of crazy failures of all types at HPDE events, but not on the vintage race cars.

We had to change the seals on the caliper pistons every session when I ran the J56 4 piston brakes on the front because I didn't have a set of the sexy insulated pistons (which is why we went to the CNC brakes fairly quickly!)...

I didn't mean to say that I hadn't seen it, to dismiss it. Just an off the top of the head comment and absolutely related to the level of maintenance that goes into running a heavy, high power race car.

Vince@Meanstreets 05-30-2014 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leroy Rochester (Post 553377)
I was actually going to come back and mention that... I've seen a fair number of crazy failures of all types at HPDE events, but not on the vintage race cars.

We had to change the seals on the caliper pistons every session when I ran the J56 4 piston brakes on the front because I didn't have a set of the sexy insulated pistons (which is why we went to the CNC brakes fairly quickly!)...

I didn't mean to say that I hadn't seen it, to dismiss it. Just an off the top of the head comment and absolutely related to the level of maintenance that goes into running a heavy, high power race car.

Yeah I got that. It maybe an overlooked service part. I am more concerned about spindle failure than bearing failure. He is running a lot faster now.

Flash68 06-07-2014 05:13 PM

Look who about has their new motor back in the car... they are shooting for June 15 @ Sonoma. :unibrow:

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/f...ps92e719a6.jpg

Track Junky 06-07-2014 05:18 PM

That would be cool. Last I talked to Carl Dave is supposed to ride with me and give me some tips. Hopefully that will happen.

Flash68 06-07-2014 05:20 PM

That's absolutely the 1st gen Camaro driver I'd be talking to!

That's because Sieg is unavailable of course.... ringer on Team Weld.

Track Junky 06-07-2014 05:30 PM

I picked up some poly carbonate material from tap plastics today and built my rear quarter windows. Tomorrow I'll put the new front rotors and pads on unless I get pulled away for some family activity.

Haven't been to Sonoma in 8 years so should be interesting.

GregWeld 06-07-2014 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flash68 (Post 554914)
That's absolutely the 1st gen Camaro driver I'd be talking to!

That's because Sieg is unavailable of course.... ringer on Team Weld.



Just as soon as I teach him how to find the rev limiter....

GregWeld 06-07-2014 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Track Junky (Post 554917)
I picked up some poly carbonate material from tap plastics today and built my rear quarter windows. Tomorrow I'll put the new front rotors and pads on unless I get pulled away for some family activity.

Haven't been to Sonoma in 8 years so should be interesting.



You do know if you just ran a vintage Mustang -- they fixed that issue back in like '65....


See how that rear window is open up near the roof... creates a low pressure area and sucks all that high speed air right out! LOL

Track Junky 06-07-2014 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GregWeld (Post 554936)
You do know if you just ran a vintage Mustang -- they fixed that issue back in like '65....


See how that rear window is open up near the roof... creates a low pressure area and sucks all that high speed air right out! LOL

Yeah, I really like that. Wonder if that would work for my car.

If its convenient enough for you can you post some pics of that rear window area.

intocarss 06-08-2014 12:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flash68 (Post 554914)
That's absolutely the 1st gen Camaro driver I'd be talking to!

That's because Sieg is unavailable of course.... ringer on Team Weld.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GregWeld (Post 554935)
Just as soon as I teach him how to find the rev limiter....

Sieg= Sandbagger (racing):snapout:

Sandbagging describes someone who underperforms (usually deliberately) in an event. The term has multiple uses, such as a driver who competes in an event in a series below their level of expertise to finish high.[1] In bracket drag racing and short track racing when a racer has a dial-in time / qualifying speed much slower than the car can actually perform. The term can also be used to describe a fast driver who holds back during a race until just before the end, when they suddenly pass up through the field to win the event.

Vince@Meanstreets 06-08-2014 01:12 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Track Junky (Post 554939)
Yeah, I really like that. Wonder if that would work for my car.

If its convenient enough for you can you post some pics of that rear window area.

here you go

its flappin cause you don't have glass supports. high pressure low pressure differential.

Sieg 06-08-2014 05:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flash68 (Post 554914)
That's absolutely the 1st gen Camaro driver I'd be talking to!

That's because Sieg is unavailable of course.... ringer on Team Weld.

Ringer.......:wacko: :lmao:
Quote:

Originally Posted by GregWeld (Post 554935)
Just as soon as I teach him how to find the rev limiter....

Rev limiter = Meatball Flag :badidea:
Quote:

Originally Posted by intocarss (Post 554955)
Sieg= Sandbagger (racing):snapout:

Sandbagging describes someone who underperforms (usually deliberately) in an event. The term has multiple uses, such as a driver who competes in an event in a series below their level of expertise to finish high.[1] In bracket drag racing and short track racing when a racer has a dial-in time / qualifying speed much slower than the car can actually perform. The term can also be used to describe a fast driver who holds back during a race until just before the end, when they suddenly pass up through the field to win the event.

Sieg = LOFT
That would be more accurate. (Lack of F'n Talent)
:D

Track Junky 06-08-2014 07:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vince@MSperfab (Post 554956)
here you go

its flappin cause you don't have glass supports. high pressure low pressure differential.

Yup, seen that. Weld sent me a link. You would think that rear glass would be flappin.

fleetus macmullitz 06-08-2014 07:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sieg (Post 554961)

Sieg = LOFT
That would be more accurate. (Lack of F'n Talent)
:D

Nah, yer jes pacin' yerself cuz you know ya got all that latent talent on reserve...


:D

GregWeld 06-08-2014 08:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Track Junky (Post 554971)
Yup, seen that. Weld sent me a link. You would think that rear glass would be flappin.



No flappin goin' on there at all.... and there's zero parachute effect. I think the low pressure area created over the roofline is the reason. If there's no pressure being built up "under" the lexan... then there's no buffeting like what would be felt if there was air pressure trying to find it's way and creating all manor of turbulence back there.

Mind you - the old clunky Camaro's may have a different issue compared to the sleek racing lines of the mighty Mustang...

intocarss 06-08-2014 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sieg (Post 554961)
Ringer.......:wacko: :lmao:

Rev limiter = Meatball Flag :badidea:

Sieg = LOFT
That would be more accurate. (Lack of F'n Talent)
:D

Just more sandbagging!!:RunninDog:

GregWeld 06-08-2014 09:35 AM

I'm going to buy this tomorrow to replace the low life foreigner.... We'll see how well he can handle it vs the go-kart.



http://www.race-cars.com/carsales/ch...83419533la.htm

DBasher 06-08-2014 09:47 AM

AWESOME!
:thumbsup:

fleetus macmullitz 06-08-2014 10:02 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by GregWeld (Post 554987)
I'm going to buy this tomorrow to replace the low life foreigner.... We'll see how well he can handle it vs the go-kart.

http://www.race-cars.com/carsales/ch...83419533la.htm

Mankar alert!

Could be a handful...lol

http://24.media.tumblr.com/71c9366c8...zxy4o1_500.gif


intocarss 06-08-2014 10:52 AM

^^^ HOLY SHIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII* that's really NICE, Congrats!!

Sieg 06-08-2014 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GregWeld (Post 554987)
I'm going to buy this tomorrow to replace the low life foreigner.... We'll see how well he can handle it vs the go-kart.



http://www.race-cars.com/carsales/ch...83419533la.htm

Quote:

It has been built with thought.
That's comforting to know........:D

Has Charlie approved the purchase yet?

GregWeld 06-08-2014 11:48 AM

Well I was only half joking..... I still think the little British Go-Kart is perfect as a back up track car... But I am going down to look at it.


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