Thanks!

PS - I liked how the market responded favorably to news of your Toterhome purchase. It actually moved the consumer confidence needle. :D

So Greg, what do you think a person should do if they have a great company match 401k but the mutual fund that it's invested in is crap and they are locked into just those funds? I know this is a little beyond 102 but I'm curious as to your opinion.

My opinion, and what I may end up doing since I'm somewhat in that boat with my 401k, is to set aside whatever you have to in order to get the max company match as that's free money but not go over that amount. Take the rest that you would have invested or want to invest for retirement and put it else where like a Roth IRA or open a brokerage account.

The company match is growth in your savings -- so really -- you have to kind of do a "total return" math... you saved 10% - they matched 3% - even if the fund had zero growth... you got a 30% "return". You put in $6 and they added $2.... that right there is a pretty good "return". The problem is -- you're losing out on the COMPOUNDING that continued dividends or growth bring... and that's where the Mutual Funds are KILLING people's retirement.

So - yes - If your fund choices suck.... then take the match... but save more OUTSIDE the company store. Do a ROTH and your own 401 if allowed to. The ROTH is the biggest savings gift EVER.... that growth and redemption without ANY taxes is just huge! 100 grand is a 100 grand..... A 401K is 100 grand but when withdrawn is 80 grand....

The company 401K is all most people ever save -- and that's a big mistake right there. That will "help" but in most cases won't be nearly enough to have a nice retirement. If people really thought about it ..... if you work for 30 years and save $500 a month.... but then you expect to retire and live another 30 years and "make" $3000 a month... that math doesn't really work out.

I just found out I have the ability to self direct 50% of my 401k through Chase Investment services.

Fees are $8.95 per trade

$100 per account per year maintenance fee.

I feel like I just won the lottery!! :thumbsup:

Are short term cap gains a non-issue in a self directed 401k? Or how does this work?

There is no tax due on 401k's until you withdraw.... and then you're paying INCOME TAX on the withdrawals... since money that is put into the 401 is PRE TAX. So you owe taxes on the whole enchilada. Obviously the idea there is that you'll save more - compounding more - and will withdraw when you're at a lower rate.

Don't worry about the LTCG or STCG etc.

Winning! Thank your company for having an option plan. :thumbsup:

Out of curiousity, how do some of you decide how many shares to buy? I base it on what I can afford given the amount of money I have at that particular moment. For example, Greg, you picked up 400 shares of Apple & 1000 shares of Chipotle Mexican Grill, how did you come up with those numbers? Why not 500/800 shares? Just wondering everyones technique when it comes to picking shares.

http://www.greenbookblog.org/wp-cont..._BLD009417.jpg

:unibrow:

Good one, Lol.

I added to my STD position today which drops my price per share, not to mention the next dividend, if history repeats itself, will be the big one of the year. " fingers crossed "

For me, I simply bought as many shares as the amount I had to spend would buy.

It's a good question but one without a correct answer....

I actually "adjusted" yesterdays purchase after thinking about it -- and sold 500 CMG and bought 200 more AAPL.... so now have 500 CMG and 600 AAPL...

I look at my cash -- and the account that the stock I want to buy is in... and then my LIMIT is 2 or 3% of investable funds. Most people use 5% - but 5% for me gets to be a pretty big $ amount... so it's all just based on what your situation is.

I ALWAYS try to keep a pretty sizable cash position as well.... cash is always king -- you never have to sell into a down period (that can last 2 or 3 years) and you always FEEL BETTER having cash... so I could make that a consideration as well.

I had 20,000 shares and added 10,000 today. I waited until they were down a $1 from my average cost... to add (average down) to this position. They go "ex dividend" on the 10th and they're paying 11% at these prices (remember the percentage of div goes UP when the stock price goes down).

Personally -- I wouldn't "talk up" this kind of a position because of the volatility... and the "unsure" footing european banks are on. Actually the unsure footing the euro GOVERNMENTS are on..... but I think the risk/reward is decent over the long run. I look at it this way -- this stock has a higher chance of going up 25% than Microsoft does. :rofl: Although MSFT has had a decent run lately... so that's an unfair statement.

Hey -- How's that gold trade working out for you guys??


OMG....

Just like stocks... long term success. You get paid to wait. :)

I wish I could afford to buy into gold, now would be a great time!

Greg, PM coming your way...

Actually really good..Not today.

But I have been long for years, but that is why I never recommend what I am doing in certain areas of my mix...Because if you weren't in early, watch out..

But over the last 10 years ? Good..Really good. crazy Gains..

I still see QE4 coming ...I may get off the crazy train within the next 12 months, if QE4 doesn't happen. But it will.

Also plenty of Dividend payers in my Mix.. 14 of the 18 assets that I own are Dividend payers..

But I don't see the Commodity run over yet..Along with the gains my eyebrows should grow back tomorrow..They will print more money soon..

EDIT...One day of tree shaking is no big deal....Back up 2 Grand this morning, in the first Hour....Wait until they bail out more home loans, and just wait until they bail out the Student Loans..

More printing on the way....And when that happens ? I will be waiting.

So yes, Commodities have and will be very good to be..

Here's my theory... Gold hit a huge bubble with all the hype when you started seeing commercials on tv and radio. It's being deflated now, and they can attempt to suppress it, but they can't control the market, the trajectory is still going no where but up as long as they keep printing dollars.

There are many more bailouts in the works... The Housing that they tried to SAY is ok, is not OK...More government aid is happening and will happen..

Recently BEFORE they bail out the student Loans, they added the Illegal alien loans to the books..They will bail that out soon..

People can try to say that gold will fall, HELL they wish it will so they can be Right...Wrong...

Stimulus will continue...Printing will continue...Commodities will stay high..

People say it is overvalued....Nope...Just wait...I guess I have made my post, and now let time be the guide...we will see , won't we ?:cheers:

Note that AT&T went "ex dividend" today.

:woot:

In my market -- and I'm trying to buy houses in Portland Oregon ($350K range) and Seattle Washington ($800K range) - the market is HOT...

Every house we've had interest in has gone pending before we can even think about making an offer. There are now BIDDING WARS going on with multiple offers and back up offers.

I have two friends here (Seattle) in the business. Art called yesterday to tell me about a house - and then said a house he just listed at 1.3 million - had FIVE full price offers and one offer at 1.4 million.

Remember that the list of LARGE companies that are doing well headquartered here in the Seattle area will blow your mind... it's just that people don't think about lowly Seattle as ANYONES headquarters for anything.... but it is. High pay - high quality jobs make high priced housing.

Beware! The same thing was going on everywhere before the bubble.. IMO, thats a sure sign of one, where people drive up values in a frenzy.. they end up overvalued and crash down.. the PNW is a fad right now I believe.. a year from now it will crash, IMO.

Here in the midwest we have been stable, but declining still. We have not seen the bottom in housing, no way. But that won't stop new bubbles from forming elsewhere with these ultra low rates the Fed is holding.

They haven't let all the foreclosure even through the system yet..

And a new wave of Foreclosures is coming... Then the Student Loans ???


Look up how much money is going to be bailed out...They will, they have to..

Depending on who is in charge, they WANT to...

So there will be stimulus or aid, or loans, or whatever they want to name it...

But Americans will not go for Austerity and Cuts that are needed...They will revolt in some form or another..Spoiled children that won't take the small pill now..Well they are going to take the pill, now or later...

And I don't store ammo, or Gold. I am not buying commodities to live through the entire collapse of society..Haha..I have no time to think that way..

But they laughed at me when I added more Gold at 600. Then they really laughed when I bought at 800. They cried laughing at 1200. Then they thought I lost my mind adding at 1400.

But I do have enough Dividend payers monthly to not bank on Gold or commodities to be the answer. Just an add to my Blend..

Could it go either way ? Yes...But it won't break me..I still think we are in for a reset..

Americans wont have a choice.. Banks dont want hyperinflation.. that's their loss, they'll put the loss on the productive class and steal investments, just like they did in 08.

There's going to come a time when the Fed will just stop buy govt debt and the markets will suffer... I wish I was wrong, but that's what signs are saying.

Anyway I don't hijack this thread with my doomsday prepper talk lol :willy: but there were a whole LOT of people blind to seeing what was coming in 08.. I wasn't one of them. Nothing has changed since then except they've pumped and inflated more, so there will more bubbles a'comin...

I don't think you understand the economy here. We NEVER had high unemployment -- nor do we have the foreclosure issues elsewhere in the country.

It's hard to look outside the box if you're not somewhere that is not having the same issues. Employment and job opportunities are what drive housing higher or lower. Think DETROIT.... low pay - not a lot of opportunity.... versus "Silcon Valley".... high job growth - high pay - high housing prices - maybe 1 or 2% unemployment. Ditto Seattle. If you're a housing framer - you suck... if you are in high tech sales or a software engineer or programmer - you have multiple job offers at 100+ K per year and all the benefits you want.

The government may be busy bailing out Louisiana - but they've got nothing to do around here.

So building and construction is not booming up there? I would think it would be if that economy is thriving....

I just get cautious when bidding wars happen on property.. it tends to start to snow ball into hype and overvaluation...

OVER BUILDING is not happening here -- and if you want to buy a million dollar condo - you probably have a choice of 1000 or more of them in the Seattle and Bellevue area.

know any one looking to pay seattle wages for telecommuter for Tech support/software techie stuff? lol :lol:

Good to hear.. sounds like a case of short supply.. hopefully those sale values then are legitimate and not inflated. :thumbsup:

Too late! We sold Isilon Systems in 2010..... to EMC.


I know nothing about nothing now.



:cheers: :woot:

Way back in the thread was some discussion regarding Exxon - Chevron - Conoco Phillips....

I bought Conoco after doing some research...


This is just some 'news' that could be of interest

ConocoPhillips (COP) won the approval from its board of directors to split its refinery arm, Phillips 66, in a move to further accelerate the value of both entities.

In July last year, the third biggest U.S. integrated oil company, following ExxonMobil Corporation (XOM) and Chevron Corporation (CVX), planned to separate its upstream oil and gas exploration and production unit from its downstream refining division into two stand-alone, publicly traded corporations. The move is expected to create the largest refining company in the U.S. (with a capacity of 2.4 million barrels per day) and the largest exploration and production (E&P) player based on oil and gas reserves.

Following the closure of market on April 30, 2012, the groups – with headquarters in Houston − will be alienated through a tax-free distribution of Phillips 66 shares to ConocoPhillips common stock holders. The shareholders of the E&P arm will receive one share of Phillips 66 common stock for every two shares of ConocoPhillips stock held at the close of business on April 16. The refinery unit will trade on the New York Stock Exchange under the symbol PSX. Prior to the distribution, Phillips 66 shares will trade under the symbol PSX WI in a "when-issued" public market.

Good news, for you. ;)

I ended up going with Chevron... down 4.5% now, but they'll turn around.

My curiosity sits at why you chose conoco out of the group? What did you see "different" than the others?


alternatively.. would news like this "spark" a purchase? since you are knowing its going to split in the near short term?

COP has a better dividend than CVX or XOM.... has better 3 year total return... and a very good 5 year TR.... and they have the split going for them.

The other two did NOT have that.

I missed your other question and think that it is the most relevent to Investing 102

You asked would a split event like this spark buying interest? Meaning - would the announcement of a split in a stock or some other big news event cause me to buy a stock?

I buy on the fundamentals ONLY.... and if there's a split... or a buyout... or some other "news" then it's just a freebie. Usually -- if I already own the stock and have for at least a year and one day (LTCG's) I will SELL half of the holding if I see a big run up. I can always buy back in.

The fundamentals of COP looked better in comparison to CVX and XOM...

Gotcha. That makes sense.

Nice pick. :thumbsup:

For whatever reason, when i was doing my comparisons for which of the oil stocks i would buy, that one didnt even get on my list. doh.

So, that brings me to another question... Since most "investing 102" people dont know the "entire market" we are looking to get in, where is a good place to find this info?

If i recall, i just went to schwab and looked at one of the pages (likely, for CVX) and it showed similar companies or something like that. In which I wrote down/researched XOM, BP and RDSA (and of course, CVX). I ended up with CVX due to hits mediocre dividend (compared to the other 3, it was the 3rd on the scale), but its overall higher returns in the 1/3/5/10 year marks.

So somewhere along the line, I "missed" the "competitors" to research.

One place this thread has turned me onto is Seeking Alpha. I'm inundated with emails on prospects as well as articles on my current positions. But I do take everything with a grain of salt, and love reading the comments on the articles. Lots, if not to much info, but it gives me ideas and positions I can research and get a feel for. Then I can make a more informed decision based on facts and if I feel comfortable with that position.

Same here...

I setup my "roth" portfolio on there, as its easier to track the days ups/downs. I also setup a "watch" list. Where anytime i hear someone talking about a good "dividend" company, i toss it on there, for future review. :)

You can go into Seeking Alpha and select what emails you receive.... I only get the Dividend Investor stuff....

I just ran across this, and not sure how "helpful" it really is.. but seems it would be pretty important..

David Fish, on Seekingalpha has a "U.S. Dividend Champions" spreadsheet (or PDF), of a few hundred dividend companies.

I ran across it a while back, and it was a little over my head.. i'm going to take a look at it again..

Anyone else use this for help "finding" (not necessarily, choosing) their stocks?

Here is his most recent article about it, and updated spreadsheet: http://seekingalpha.com/article/4722...-now-with-beta

I looked at this some time ago -- way too much info and not organized in a helpful useful way.

Schwab has tools that can help you set criteria you want to search for and then narrow your focus.

The problem for most people with investing -- is when they start to only look at numbers and don't really know the company or have any "faith" in the company. Next thing that happens is something (the market maybe) blows up and they start looking to bail. That's why I say - if a guy has 100K to invest - just start by looking up the companies that you use - buy from - are around the streets you drive down... then compare those to similar businesses -- and this will give you a good start.

lol, I chose OXY over Conoco. Oh well.

Don't get all caught up in small scale ups and downs... and your choices for individual stocks.

When you roll out the 10 year PRICE appreciation --- you'll see this:

OXY --- UP 553%

CVX --- UP 140%

COP --- UP 148%


No bad choices in any of these in my book. Anytime you have 100% + price appreciation (capital appreciation) AND you're getting a dividend on top of this! WTF -- no shame in this house!