I'll help out on the "how the heck are other countries doing this" type of question at least from the ignorant view of a business traveler abroad.

I live in Northville, MI - pretty well to do area for Metro Detroit. Not by any means the "richest" - but pretty decent. Their high school is like a freakin Taj Mahal. HUGE.... BRAND NEW (well, a few years old now) .... no expense spared type of place. Same can be said for most of the cities nearby (e.g. South Lyon, and maybe Novi but not sure). At 2:20pm, traffic coming out of the school is a nightmare. And the county is looking for more money to spend on "upgrades" ????

I travel to China.... well, sort of.... SHANGHAI at least. Just walked around the Hongqaio area last week and the high school looks like a POS from the outside. The kids drive scooters, not late model BMW's or brand new cars. They were getting out of school at 7pm!

I travel to Germany. Not big city Germany, but more rural northern Germany. No Taj Mahal's to be seen. The teachers there are paid well... and from what I understand, PAY NO TAX ON THEIR TEACHING INCOME.

Point being that most of these other countries - when you talk about a school, that's what you are talking about. Not about it being pretty, or having lots of windows, or being brand new, or no more than 10 kids in a class, or whatever else. It's a space to teach... and that's about it. And they beat it home and society / parents put extreme importance on school. I'd say this is a bit different hear. I'm sure we are more successful in certain aspects of school. Just not in all of them... including some important ones!

Because our kids educators instill it in them from grade school on. But only in the larger cities, rural farming communities still have core values harmonious with those of our founding fathers.

Reality is we are not the majority any more. :(

There are many issues in the air here.

On education: do some reading on the Finnish educational system - they don't test; they surely don't use standardized tests; teachers are highly paid and even more respected; they view investment in their kids as critically important; oh, and they are also one of the most successful public school systems in the world. Note that none of those statements are (generally speaking) true of our educational system.

Next, the notion that the 1% are the economy is just utter BS. The vast majority of the 1% are executives who have played the corporate political game well, Wall Street vulture capitalists of various stripes who have manipulated financial instruments of various kinds (including corporate LBO's, junk bonds and so on), folks with inherited wealth and so on. The folks making $1,000,000 or more per year aren't, so far as I can, see job creators: they are the lucky beneficiaries of the visionaries who were, in fact, the job creators or are manipulating the legacies of those same job creators. Mostly the 1% are corporate executives (aka job exporters) and financial manipulators who have never created anything.

The "job creators" are folks like my gardener who has 2 employees on his payroll, the guy who painted my house recently, and all the other small shops and businesses throughout this country. With each job they create, their employees can afford to consume more goods, the fortune 500 companies run by the 1% get to sell more stuff and claim to be "job creators."

What this thread does demonstrate is that, as a nation, our values are seriously out of whack.

Thanks for the condescending comment; yes as you intuited, I'm simply a slave to TV news (which I never watch) and utterly believe eveything they say without question because, as you guessed, I'm simply too stupid to think for myself.

And my 35 years of negotiating multi-million dollar deals never gave me any insight into, what did you call it - "posturing"? Again, thanks for the insight. Before your tip, I always thought that the initial offer made was where the other side wanted to end up.

It must be nice to be a Tom Wolfian "Master of the Universe."

AMEN!!! We agree on something!!! LoL!!:cheers:
Just not what exactly is "out of whack" tho. :(

My wife's side of the family are all rural area working class teachers and the family is three generations deep in teaching. My in-laws were 30 year middle school Physical Education retiree's (Steve Prefontaine was their student, his sister is a friend), Uncle coached the State Champ 6 man football team, his son coaches the just crowns State AAAA Champions, niece played volleyball for the U of O and coached her High School VB team, her husband is the Varsity B-ball Coach. The in-laws, aunts, and uncles all grew up on the family ranch/farm that we still run.

There are some interesting conversations surrounding major metro education practices at our family functions that wouldn't be considered politically correct. :yes:


PERS distribution is public info and our 4 senior retirees individual annual income is between $31-$35,000, Oregon's last football coach Mike Bellotti (also a friend) retired a couple years ago and his PERS income is $42,000 A MONTH!

Another friend who started in patrol and ended up being Chief of Police receives $9,200 a month for his 30 years of service.......he retired at 51.

We understand Phys Ed and the PERS plan leading the state into bankruptcy. :thumbsup:

So who house is the gardener gardening? If he needs help it must be a big house. Same for the painter.
I can tell you that guy living on welfare does not have a gardener, his landlord does who probably owns a few properties.

I work with 1%ers everyday who create jobs in my shop on a daily basis. I would be glad to hire 2 more if the system provided something for the guys who choose something for their lives besides college.

Normally your posts make me think 2 things. Either I'm thinking, "Man, this guy is an eh-hole!" Or, I'm thinking, "damn, that's some sweet fabricatio!n". How dare you post something that makes me think you might have a clue outside the shop!

Both thoughts seem totally logical.

But to think somebody with minimal cash is going to outspend some guy with money is illogical.

Just think of the people the 1%ers in my shop employ, well my 8 employees, the welding supply and repair store, the garbage man, my landlord, power company, all my parts suppliers, the drivers who deliver parts,the scrap metal guys who pick up the scrap, my laser cutter and machinists, plus all garderers who work for everyone listed above, and the painters.

You could carry that even further to the people we spend our profits from the 1%ers on, race car parts for my hobby stock, all the way down to the rawhide bones my widest dog consumes at a ridiculous pace. Somebody had to make that thing for the dog to chew. To the guy building my swimming pool to the guy I buy my gasoline from.

My point exactly! The school systems will spend MILLIONS on a freakin football stadium and sports programs so we can focus on sports instead of learning something. Don't get me wrong I LOVE football, but its a freakin sport/hobby that for 99.9999% of kids that "play" won't be able to make a career out of it and support themselves. And if they are good, then they are shuffled thru school and given a free ride to college, where they do it all over again for the same reason not learning a thing and more than likely wont get a job in it. I know there are a few that actually learn and make it in "life", but that should be focused on and taught first! It's sickening how far we have regressed over the last 50ish years!!:mad: