Originally Posted by formula88 (Post 579680)

Here's a video from the final road course session (about 1/3 into it).

It gets really wild about two minutes in :D.

Some really sweet driving by all and a great perspective on how hard these guys track their cars.

Originally Posted by PTAddict (Post 579745)

Very cool video. Thanks for posting.

The track looks tighter than I expected when I think of LVMS. Seems like it might be less of a "horsepower track" than Spring Mountain?

Interesting to hear how much those Rival street tires squeal under braking and through the turns. Hoosiers don't make that kind of noise unless you're spinning out. Not that I would know :_paranoid

What motor does Maier have in that Mustang of his to be able to almost keep up with you on the straightaways? Seems like a bit more than a 289 with a tune up :)

Originally Posted by PTAddict (Post 579738)

It really is an amazing accomplishment making this kind of HP, pump gas, thermal management, and totally drivable. Crazy good. All on a production block and oiling system, as well.

Does the E67 ECU have any advantages over the E38 for this kind of application? Also interesting to note that you're running hybrid MAF/Speed Density - SD tuning on those ECUs is a PITA, at least with HP tuners, and I've found no discernable advantage in normally aspirated performance applications (the GM crate motor ECUs all run MAF-only as well). But it may well be that, at this HP level, that extra bit of fine transient control is important?

Originally Posted by GregWeld (Post 579770)

If you got to drive the car on the street.... you'd sell your house and buy a sleeping bag and move into the car if that's what it took to own it or one like it. LOL

Your Grandmother could drive this car home (to Pasadena) and be happy!

Originally Posted by glassman (Post 579769)

SB2 cup car from what i heard. Great battle.

Originally Posted by GregWeld (Post 579770)

If you got to drive the car on the street.... you'd sell your house and buy a sleeping bag and move into the car if that's what it took to own it or one like it. LOL

Your Grandmother could drive this car home (to Pasadena) and be happy!

Originally Posted by glassman (Post 579769)

SB2 cup car from what i heard. Great battle.

Originally Posted by Flash68 (Post 579780)

Come on Mike, really? :twak:

SB2/SB2.2 = Chivy

And that ain't no Chivy. :D

it's a Roush Yates 358... at least it was before the rebuild. Not sure if Mike modified it/stroked it or whatever for the current iteration.

She's a beaut though :thumbsup:

Originally Posted by PTAddict (Post 579738)

It really is an amazing accomplishment making this kind of HP, pump gas, thermal management, and totally drivable. Crazy good. All on a production block and oiling system, as well.

Does the E67 ECU have any advantages over the E38 for this kind of application? Also interesting to note that you're running hybrid MAF/Speed Density - SD tuning on those ECUs is a PITA, at least with HP tuners, and I've found no discernable advantage in normally aspirated performance applications (the GM crate motor ECUs all run MAF-only as well). But it may well be that, at this HP level, that extra bit of fine transient control is important?

Originally Posted by mikels (Post 579786)

E67 is needed for supercharged applications if wanting to maintain the same level of control as OEM. There are 3 MAP sensors (BARO, SC inlet and Manifold) as well as 2 IAT sensors (IAT1 in MAF sensor, IAT2 in manifold after intercoolers) and SC bypass valve control. E38 lacks the I/O capability to run this many sensors and have this level of control on forced induction applications.

MAF sensor allows more precise air measurement as well - when you think about it, mass air calibration is calculating the mass air flow from MAP, displacement and RPM to determine engine operation. Better to measure actual mass flow and redundantly calculate for better control.

Goal all along as we've refined these 7.0L SC engines has been not just power, but driveability, controllability and practicality (OEM part usage where possible for servicing, pump gas). Mark typically autocross's in 1st gear - not many 900+hp engines (well, none that I can think of) have driveability that allows this sort of operation.

We know there are changes that can be made to make more power, but what's the point if you give up the refinement and control? I think Charlie stated he got ~23-24 mpg in Mayhem on PowerTour this year (and I'm sure it wasn't because he 'babied' the car)- all while generating 880hp/815tq. On pump gas.

Anyone who can drive a stick could drive Hellfire - it is truly that easy to drive. Idles @ 750 rpm, pulls from any gear from idle speeds and never carries on in any way. Just be careful when your right foot gets heavy!

I'm a huge forced induction fan - and love turbocharging. But there is no way I can put together a turbo engine that has the same level of refinement and immediate response that we have with this positive displacement SC engine for same power level.

It's great fun making power (and can never have too much - although we are close.... Nah - just need more traction!) - but the fun stops if the package is unreliable, cantankerous to live with or requires unobtainium fuel, etc.

Dave

Originally Posted by mikels (Post 579786)

MAF sensor allows more precise air measurement as well - when you think about it, mass air calibration is calculating the mass air flow from MAP, displacement and RPM to determine engine operation. Better to measure actual mass flow and redundantly calculate for better control.
Dave

Originally Posted by formula88 (Post 579680)

Here's a video from the final road course session (about 1/3 into it).

It gets really wild about two minutes in :D.

Some really sweet driving by all and a great perspective on how hard these guys track their cars.

Originally Posted by PTAddict (Post 579790)

Thanks again for the detailed response and willingness to share. Those additional E67 sensor inputs make sense - similar actually to what I see with the late model Mustang GT500 tunes we've done, although the Mustangs are messier because of the "torque demand" throttling strategy.

I completely agree with all you said, but I think you might have meant to say that Speed Density calibration is calculating mass air flow from MAP/RPM/displacement? I'd completely agree that a properly calibrated MAF sensor is not only precise, but also provides compensation/insurance against all kinds of other variables that affect air mass (intake manifold heat, intake valve temp, spark variation due to knock retard, etc).

Originally Posted by Lous69 (Post 579568)

Mark,

My favorite part of the day Saturday was when I was watching you make a pass on the Autocross. When you finished your run and idled by, a nice gentleman next to me nudged me and said "That's my son". I said "You are Mark's Dad? You must be very proud. He's an engineer's engineer and one heck of a nice guy who doesn't let all of his success go to his head."

As a proud father myself, I could see how proud he was in his eyes and maybe even a little emotional crackle in his voice.

That was a very cool moment.

Lou

Originally Posted by Stielow (Post 579788)

Professor Mikels has spoken. I don't even mess with it any more I just do what Dave says and it works and hauls a$$....

Originally Posted by camcojb (Post 579791)

Thanks for the video Gordon. :thumbsup:

Originally Posted by formula88 (Post 579798)

Anytime buddy. You helped make it possible :D

Originally Posted by GregWeld (Post 579795)

Sadly I was unable to confirm.... LMAO

Originally Posted by mikels (Post 579792)

OEM software and calibrations calculate injector tip temperature, intake valve temp and many, many other parameters that impact engine operation - all this results in more precise control (and closer operation to the edge while maintaining safe operation).

Dave

Originally Posted by Ns RS (Post 579804)

I was the driver in that Viper and I can confirm, that thing did haul a$$ but the driver looked slow at first all crunched up against the wheel. boy was I wrong :bump:

Originally Posted by Ns RS (Post 579804)

I was the driver in that Viper and I can confirm, that thing did haul a$$ but the driver looked slow at first all crunched up against the wheel. boy was I wrong :bump:

Originally Posted by SlowProgress (Post 580070)

Page 88 will get you close. The pump is mechanical, a modification made to the transmission by D & D. Your right though, I don't remember seeing anything regarding the tank/reservoir location ?

Originally Posted by bonecrrusher (Post 580173)

Mark - can you provide any insight on the C6 jake skull logos?

As a big fan of the Tudor racing team - I go to several of there races a year.

I'm not knocking there placement on your car at all - I just thought you'd have some kuddos to the z28 - or something like that.

Originally Posted by Stielow (Post 580286)

I just like them.

Mark

Originally Posted by Sieg (Post 580293)

So do I! I was eyeballing that shifter knob thinking to myself this is one part on Hellfire that my car's budget would actually allow. :lol:

I'm still amazed at how well Hellfire behaves in a daily driving scenario, well done Sir. :thumbsup:

Originally Posted by GregWeld (Post 580296)

I just hope all these "kudos" are running up the price Charley will have to pay....

Originally Posted by GregWeld (Post 580296)

I just hope all these "kudos" are running up the price Charley will have to pay....

Originally Posted by DOOM (Post 580299)

Charley!!!!! I think this is your next ride who you bull shizin!!

Originally Posted by Sieg (Post 580303)

Did you see him photo cataloging all the rock chip and cone scars after the event Sunday? Obviously collecting negotiating material. :secret:

Originally Posted by camcojb (Post 580322)

Speaking of rock chips...

Originally Posted by camcojb (Post 580322)

Speaking of rock chips...

Originally Posted by camcojb (Post 580322)

Speaking of rock chips...

Originally Posted by DutchBoys (Post 580386)

Yeah......Speaking of rock chips..... lol :willy:




I enjoy giving Mark crap about the rock chips. For some reason with Mark it doesn't bother me as bad. Seeing him out on the track using the car and hanging it out without holding back makes it all worth it. We enjoy making awesome paint for our customers. And most of the time I see cars that we have done and they don't get driven very often and used the way that they should.

Marks car is the total package. It preforms awesome on the track without sacrifice in any areas throughout the build. Then you can roll it into a car show and still bring home some awards. :thumbsup:

Originally Posted by KPC67 (Post 580389)

I can see how in some cases beating up on a car that you guys put so much time and love into would bother you, but in this case Mark has put as much time and love into his car; and you can respect the way he drives it.

Originally Posted by camcojb (Post 580322)

Speaking of rock chips...