naw that thing was used in american graffiti :lol:

Good info Dave, keep it coming. That motor will be done in no time and then you'll be joining richie for some late nights on bmf!:thumbsup:

Shane

I don't get this? How does changing the base but not changing the cam specs gain 60 hp? Was he saying that just having the large roller bearing surface frees up that much HP? Any engine experts able to explain this?

There was greater detail in the convo, but remember it's hard for me to keep up with Mike all day. :D

Something about there's more to it than that (because I asked the same question as you). Something about the lobe shapes and the events happening at an extra 6 or 8 degrees of duration? Something like that? I probably regurgitated it all wrong.

Any smarty pants engine guys care to join in? :lateral:

The motor in question was a super stocker he built. He does a lot of those.

WIth the 50-55mm cams, the bigger base circle and bigger rollers on the bigger lifters make a wider radius and smoother contact on the lifter, it is also supported better with the nasty pressure angles that are going on.. Simply it's a smoother transition,, So YES it frees up power so to say....plus the 50-55mm cam has a much stiffer core so cam timing stays better front to rear due to less twist on the cam. I'm no cam expert so I hope this makes sense cuz I suck at explanations :willy:




I remembered Dave wasn't able to get a pic
So here is a eather a 50 or 55mm SBC cam (not sure which I just grabbed it off the shelf for a pic)

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y3/real3/IMG_5527.jpg

And here is a I believe a regular SBC cam or could be a BBC (again I just grabbed it real quick for a pic) BUT YOU'LL GET THE IDEA

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y3/real3/IMG_5531.jpg

THE MOUSE THAT ROARED,,,THE RATS THAT CRY

Thanks Jerry. That does sound much like what Mike was talking about. :thumbsup:

For the same reason not all cams with advertised duration of say 290 deg are the same. The ramps are very different and hence the actual timing events. That's why a starting point for cam comparisons is to use the measurements of duration at .050 of lift.

Mopars used to have an advantage in the flat tappet cam world because of their larger base circle cams.

Roller lifters allow for more extreme timing events and a larger base circle allows you to have even more aggressive ramps without the lifter binding. Optimizing the opening events is what cam timing is all about and the larger base circle gives you the ability to do so. Cam lobes get closer to square. Open to full lift quicker and close from full lift quicker.

Pretty smarty pants for a Ford guy IMHO. :D

This is real race car stuff. How agressive can you get with that opening ramp. To put it in Laymans terms, how fast can you get the valve near max lift and keep it there during duration? Just like many other things in this hobby, it's a snowball effect. :unibrow:

And keep the valve train stable with those aggressive ramp profiles. I think Mr. Moderator is using shaft rockers--correct? This new motor is going to be sick. D, will you leave the exhaust the same? Side output?

D

This is what I tried to convey about the lobes staying near max lift (or targeted lift -- I remember Mike sayin 200-600 is the range he cares about, even though we will likely have around .700 net lift.) for an extra 6-8 degrees of duration.

Yes, Jesel shaft rockers. Mike says they are pretty old but he can "update" them to be okay to use.

I plan to run same current exhaust. Driver side exit only, and that is key for running Thunderhill where the sound meter is on the passenger side. I hope I can pass. I'll bring the Spintech setup as a backup. Hopefully the new headers will come close to where the old ones ended. I also thought that by running the motor on the dyno with no muffs it would be near reality to my real exhaust on the street/track with only the inserts I have for a few db reduction.

I like a moderator that likes it loud...

If he was running Midas Turbo mufflers, I would be concerned...

Agreed. :cool:

Best part of that vid is the sound of the car pulling back into the driveway IMO. Can't wait to hear your new motor Dave!

:thumbsup: :rockin:

Thanks dude. I kinda miss that quiet exhaust too sometimes. Luckily the boom tube is reversible. :cheers:

Pulling in the driveway is my favorite part too. I kept forgetting that there is a jackhammer in the back ground and everytime I watched, I kept thinking DAMN he grabbed a bearing & got rod knock on that last pass

Maybe the jackhammer was a subliminal message of that motor's destiny. :_paranoid

oh dave!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...20507-1835.jpg

/ hijack

Like a vasectomy....

No, I am not scheduled to have a vasectomy. Thanks for asking. :lol:


I am close to figuring some changes out.... I don't wanna be a flip flopper so let me get my ducks in a row. :D

My Lat G friends will be the first to know! :lateral:

Changes? Unless your swapping to a CHI headed windsor stroker there shouldn't be anything you are afraid to post for us to criticize you about. :D

Good luck with the vasectomy it shouldn't hurt much....

So now your writing nursery rhymes?

He's a poet and he didn't even know it :D

Apparently so are you :bow:

Thankfully, I don't know what that is :lol:

Thanks... thanks a lot. :mad:



:lol:

Just a little SBF street mill.:unibrow:

http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/l...nca/CHI427.gif

:willy: :lateral:

Actually I think I've seen that dyno somewhere. Love it. But I didn't want that long stroke.

Gaetano's dyno should look like this since he has 427 cubes. :unibrow:

Ok if I flip flop later so be it. :lol: As of now this bastardized Ford looking Dodge colored POS Chevy is gonna experience some big changes and it's just sooner than I had anticipated. Sometimes you just can't control timing and some parts landed in my lap that I just could not pass up. Good thing the guy takes layaway. Thanks Larry if you're reading! :D

My current subframe with all the goodies is pretty much sold so I guess it's in motion now. :rolleyes:

Here's the goods:

Jake's Rod Shop Apex C6 subframe
6 way Bilsteins front and rear (might upgrade to double adj)
1.25" splined sway bar
Jake's torque arm

Of course this triggers lots of other discussions and decisions to make. I think I'll end up with a Moser or Speedway Floater (using my existing Wilwood brakes front/rear) and a dry sump has entered back into the discussion again.

What is completely up in the air at this point is timeline. It is possible I miss Buttonwillow in September, but if that's the way it has to be for this car to get real serious and solid and safe, then so be it. I wanna get things solid and right with this car before I really start going fast. I haven't been 100% comfortable with my stock sub, 12 bolt with c clips, and a few other things.

I might not have a car at BW in Sept, but I will damn sure be there regardless. :thumbsup:

Not in my possession yet but deposit paid and I'll pick it up in the next month or two. Ok lemme have it. :lolhit:

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/f...8/photo1-6.jpg

I like it. :thumbsup: I was afraid you were going to say you bought an LS. :rofl: The torque arm should be a great rear set up for the track. SPend the money you saved on the adjustable shocks and a floater. Moser is the cheaper option.

LS? You'd see me put a Ford motor in this car before that.

The shocks are adjustable and custom valved by Jake. Just not double adjustable. We'll see. He says the singles are more than enough for 95% of the people. Am I in the 5%? I'd like to be. :lol:

Yeah he recommended Moser also. Probably what I'll do.

Ok lemme have it

You're looking at the BIG PICTURE. Smart move & congrats!! Then again.... what do I know ;) :cheers:

That CHI Windsor is calling your name. :D Be the first on your block to run a 427 Ford in a Camaro. :rofl:

Thanks. That's exactly what I'm trying to do, Jer. What's a few extra months to get it right?

Surprisingly... I don't hate the idea. :lol:

But a guy on here already ran a Ford 302 twin turbo in his 1st gen Camaro a couple years ago. He put in a LS though recently.

I was wondering how long you were going to wait before letting the cat out of the bag.
The cool thing about you getting Jakes set up is between you, Todd, Ron, and Chad we will have 4 different manufacturers subframes at Buttonwillow. Maybe not all 4 this year but hopefully next.
Thats some exciting chit there!! :thumbsup:

The sad thing is that when I kick your azzes at Buttonwillow your going to be wondering WTF :lol:

THAT MANY MORE WINS UNDER YOUR BELT :thumbsup:

I'd be going through some serious withdrawls. :willy:

GCTTFMF'S :cheers: