If a new sub frame wasn't possible due to budget, would you say the control arms between DSE and Speed-Tech are comparable in feel/performance? I know the welding processes are different, but since I won't be hard-core autoX or road racing it ever, I doubt that weld strength will ever be an issue.

Also, I read somewhere that the DSE arms do not require the g-mod due to the construction geometry. Is that true? Thanks for your input.

Actually, DSE has their own specific template for the gmod. I was going that route before I decided to swap subs.

Thanks, Todd.

I just went to both web sites, read the description just for the upper arms. They are both solid pieces. Whats the diff in the welding process? Both appear to be tig welded, in a jig Im sure. The welds wont be an issue with either arm. They both use a great bearing surfaces too, no poly there. Both use a delrin bushing. One is a Acetron GP. I personally like Delrin AF. But anyway, both much better than poly.

Decent site that talks about the diff delrins. http://www.quadrantepp.com/default.aspx?pageid=78



Ill be honest, I dont see too much of a diff for quality just from the pics. The geometry looks to be similar too.

The speedtechs are 150 bucks less if that means anything. JR

Oh yeah, one more thing I noticed. The speedtech uses a castle nut and cotter pin. In a way I like those more than the nylocks. Never had a nylock come loose, but the castle nut is a positive locking nut. But.... I like the nylocks for being able to creep up on the side load of the bushing and get it just right. And if you also like nylocks they can be put on the speedtech arms. I actually like solid metal locknuts. They have more cycles for on and off. Nylocks are good for three or so cycles they say. I usually dont like to remove and use them more than twice. On my car I use metal locknuts for the lower arm bolt cause the nut is just about touching my header tube, gets kinda warm there.

Ok, Im not done picking the nits LOL Im looking at the bushing setups. It appears DSE uses an aluminum sleeve between the plastic and the CA. And the ST uses the plastic between the CA and shaft. I dont see too much of a prob with the aluminum sleeve as long as it stays tied to the CA in rotation. If it slips and rotates separate of the CA I can see some galling taking place between the aluminum and steel. I like the two bearing surface bushings (CA to plastic then plastic to shaft) of the ST VS the three bearing surface (CA to aluminum, aluminum to plastic, plastic to shaft). Im sure they dont have a problem, just my preference. I imagine they did it to be able to have a nice machined surface (the aluminum sleeve) riding on the plastic VS the DOM tube of the CA. But both surfaces of the bushing, OD and ID shouldnt be in rotation, just one. So if the plastic grabs the steel CA and slides on the shaft then thats a good setup.

Ok, how bout the lowers. They both look like solid pieces, well constructed and powder coated for the duration. Looks like with the ST arms you can use either stock springs or coilovers. The DSE you buy which arm you want for which spring you are gonna use. They both have steering and bump stops and delrin bushings. Whats odd is I didnt see the zerk fitting to grease the bushings, and even delrin can be helped with some grease. I like lubriplate "special auto-marine grease" Surpasses some of the better synthetic greases in a couple specs.

Oh, and the prices for the lower arms are about the same. List prices. Im sure one of the dealers here can get you free shipping or 10% list on the arms. common dealer discounts.

Ok, so there is my look on it. They both have great arms. I dont think you will go wrong with either company really.. Drop the hammer!!!!!

DSE uppers
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...20Nova/DSE.jpg

Speed Techs uppers
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3.../speedtech.jpg

DSE lowers
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...Nova/DSE-1.jpg

Speed Tech lowers
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...%20Nova/ST.jpg

Wow. Thanks for going way beyond. :hail: That pretty much sums up the whole control arm question. Now for the other 200 parts I have to compare. Once again, thanks for all of your research. I appreciate it.

Or if you really want to save some money you can always just fix whats wrong...


http://www.pozziracing.com/first_gen_suspension.htm

The OP asks about contral arms. Of the two choices presented both are very good quality and offer easier - camber/+ caster alignment and comparable bushings. That being the case I`d go with the less expensive choice and say SpeedTech. Both offer a coil over option but they`re apples and oranges. The SpeedTech is a straight bolt on coil over (hybrid) conversion with no other mods. The DSE involved cutting and welding to install a conventional coil over along with new upper A arms mounts which incorperate a version of the venerable G Mod. This gives you some modest geometry improvement but prevents you from using AFX tall spindles or our X-tall Severe Duty tall ball joints which can offer larger gains (especially the AFX tall spindles). Typically we start where the car has the most trouble, fix that issue then move on to the next one and so on. The geometry on these cars is what`s really bad, also the factory bumpsteer so I`d prefer to see you fix those issues first. That may entail tall spindles, some variation of the G mod (no bumpsteer correction) or a tall balljoint/tie rod end package like our Stage 2-Plus etc. Correcting this fundamental geometry is a real game changer! We`re not talking small incremental improvements, but rather making it drive like a whole new car. When you alter the geometry you`ll almost always have to change the upper A arms to ones made to work with that new geometry. Once installed you`ll also be changing the alignment to more performance oriented settings which will add more performance. Then complete the system with performance rate springs, lowered stance and performance shocks , preferably adjustable. The car can`t tell if you`re using coil overs mounted in the stock location or coil springs and shocks. The coil overs give some adjustment but not as much as you`d think, they have a number of functional limitations based on travel,spring length etc. You can also get adj. ride height with factory type performance springs if you run SPC Performance lower A arms with their modular adj. height lower spring seats. They give you a larger usable range than a coil over conversion but without the worry of setting them up wrong. Combine it with a good adj. aluminum shock and you have a system you can dial in to the height you want and run for 100,000 miles with rock solid reliability. Mark SC&C

Thanks, Mark. I just sent you a PM.

PM sent in reply to yours Mike.
Where can I find pictures of your project?

I did DSE uppers and lowers with Gulstrand Mod(Thought they looked cool and I like the bushings) Stock spindles Timken bearings (my car does not got 200MPH so I don’t care about sealed corvette bearings really, what the is the point of ATS spindles???? a ton of money) C5 brakes with a speed tech bracket kit and a QA1 coilover I have adjusted them several times (very easy) mostly because the springs have settled. I think the car works great I do not have half the money most people do on these sites. Honestly if I was going to dump any more money than what I have currently, I would have purchased a total after market frame/suspension set up. I go to several open track days and the only thing I do is set the tire pressure and turn up the compression and rebound knobs and get to work. That is just my two cents. I will post a picture of the tire at full lock so you can see how much camber you get with this set up. It blew my mind when I saw it after the changes. It also made a big improvement in how much confidence I have with the car now.