Just a little "fuzzy math" here... my buddies are always so "impressed" with the car shows on TV that build an entire car in a week... Then my facts and figures mind has to jump in there and grab my little iPhone calculator... and make them eat their words just a bit.

10 people working round the clock - for 7 days - is 1680 MAN HOURS...

A shop like Brizio - will tell you their "AVERAGE" build is around 1500 hours... Remember too, that a 32 Ford highboy is a little "simpler" than what we're building around Lat-G...

Okay -- Averages are just that - and all jobs vary in complexity...

Doing the quicky calc - 1680 hours @ $35 an hour is $58,800 LABOR

@ $45 an hour = $75,600

@ $70 an hour = $117,600

You can also see how the $35 shop can easily catch up to the billable "time" of the higher hourly rate shops - if they SUCK at doing what you want. :woot:

I was bull ****ting with Frank today on the phone. He puts it pretty simply. A restoration shop is alot like an oak tree. You can count the rings and figure out how old it is, the only difference in a shop is how thick the dust is on the projects laying around. Greg, your math is damn scary. I couldn't afford my car if it wasn't for all my own labor. Over 1000 hrs easily.

I knew Greg was the Lat G philosopher but I guess we better add Frank to that title also

A few things on different subjects. None of this pertains specifically to this post, just general comments about the business


1st and foremost, Geez, Thanks guys for all the kind words!



2nd, Controlling cost is a huge issue. Many shops work by the hour and give a estimate of what a project will cost, say $10K, then one day the customer realizes they are over $10K in and the car is only in primer. So the customer runs out of money because he only budgeted $10K, he is already at $12K and is still $10K to $12K from finished. So the shop horribly under bid either by accident or on purpose to get the job and deposit.



At our shop we do enough work on the majority of services so we can give a firm cost number for things like Paint and body. I actually had another shop I had never heard of call me and ask how the heck can we do that? Before the conversation was over he admitted he was incapable of hitting a "estimate" within 10% to 20% and could not risk loosing money on a job. Before it was over he got nasty with me because I could give a good number! It was kind of hilarious how agravated he got with me. He went out of business 6 months ago for non paying customers. One of those cars is here. My / his customer paid all along until he had more in the project then the original quote and was less then half way through process, and the work done was so bad we stripped it to the bone, re installed another set of quarter panels to start over! That car is in the booth ready to spray, and yes, it is snowballing a bit too. We do enough cars, we know how long it takes to install a quarter panel, mini tubs, and we know how long it takes to paint a car after sheetmetal and rough in bodywork is done. There MAY be some open items we cannot determine until the car is naked, but once it is naked we can fill in those blanks also. Any pro shop should be able to do this, certainly any shop should be able to hit a estimate within 10% to 20% anyway. We have ZERO billing issues with customers, because we do not change our price unless the customer adds to the scope of work. Todd can verify our rock solid pricing for a given scope. As well as others here.



3rd Scope of work changes. This is a big issue we do have. Someone sends a car I for x and Y work, (100 hours), then adds W and Z (another 100 hours) while it is here. Just last month we sent home a car that came in from California for a subframe, mini tub and rear suspension. We scheduled it in and before it got here he added a big motor and transmission. Then once it got here and we got started, he said hows about looking over the paint, We painted it. Then what about the interior, shouldn't we replace it with a DSE insert, some seats, some seat belts, Are those door panels good enough now that everything else is so pretty? and if were doing door panels should we go ahead and replace the glass and add power windows? So in the end a 150 hour suspension and mini tub project turned into a full build, 600 hour project. We let this one grow a bit, but when we sent the final bill the customer could not pay the bill quick enough. He was thrilled!



4th, The down side, it puts the next project behind. The Bull Run car is another perfect example, we originally were not supposed to do any bodywork on that car. Touch up a couple bubbles, spot it in some paint and do full body and paint another day after the race. But when we dug in it it was so bad it made no sense to spend $5K on a spot in job when that money could go towards doing it right. We ended up re sheetmetal the entire car, 300 additional hours later, she was fantastic. But it puts us behind on the next project.



5th So thanks for your recommendations, but right now we are slammed busy and cannot touch anything new for at least 6 months. We had 6 projects in a row more then double, some quadruple hours. And 2 of the 4 cars in the shop now are snowballing. All my customers are very understanding, but we want to get the load a little more manageable right now. We are a small shop, 5 guys including me, and I manage and do parts more then spin wrenches anymore. And I do not want to hire more guys and add space, tried that and let both of them go in short time! I love my low overhead and the entire crew has been here for years. So they are easy to manage.



6th, Keeping it local, Every car here is from out of state except 3. One if from 300 miles away in Tallahassee, the other 360 miles away from Key West. and one suspension job is local. We have cars sent from Canada and California for just 150 to 200 hours work, to full 1000 hour builds. We are talking about a project coming from Australia right now. Unless you need to see the progress and want to have the shop visits as part of the build experience, do look out of town if nothing local makes you comfortable. It can be done with E mail and pictures, along with specified milestone payments that prevent your getting in to deep at any point in the project.


So we are discussing June / July appointments right now

I'm about 50 miles west of Atlanta in a town called Dallas, Ga. right next door to Cartersville. I use a shop in Cartersville for my paint and some other work. You don't hear much about them because for some reason the owner has a thing about his work maybe not standing up to the big guys in the business.

Let me tell you that 90% of what comes out of their shop is usually in a magazine spread within a year on it's own merrit and workmanship. No politicing or pushing from the shop, just the owners showing up at events. They do extremely nice work at a fair rate, the employees are very easy to work with and care about what you want in the end.

They do a wide range of projects, Right now they have a lowered '49 Chevy PU, 2 55 Sport coupes with full Morrison Chassis, one with an LS7 and 6 speed, also a 56 drop top custom. There is an 09 Challenger factory drag car being finished out there along with some others, last month they finished work on the HEATCO factory five GTM.

They will do anything from PT upgrades to turnkey cars, you just don't hear about them except by word of mouth because they stayed covered up without advertising. My car will be back there in about a month for final paint and some of the final assembly. They outsource engines and interior work from reputable sources such as Turn key, mast, etc. and interior work by Sam's trim shop which is located in Dallas or Paul Atkins in Alabama. You will be hard pressed to beat the workmanship in this area.

They are also a dealer for Morrison Chassis and several other high qaulity component manufacturers. This may save you both time and money in the end for some items.

Give the owner Brad Cline a call at 678-986-2632 and tell him Tommy Parker sent you. The shops name is Thunder Valley Customs and is located just out of Cartersville on hwy. 411 in White, Ga.

Tommy --

You mean -- like this one!! LOL :thumbsup:


http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/a...s_029Small.jpg

Greg

That looks like one they did with a magnacharged LS a few years ago for a guy at the same time they were painting my grey car. Brad was sort of ashamed of the interior because the guy wouldn't wait for either of the shops he uses and took it somewhere else.

They do a wide range of cars as well as PT. Their specialty is Tri-Fives from mild to wild. I've seen them order and use as many as 5-6 Morrison tri-5 chassis in a year.

EDIT: The one I was thinking of had grey interior, not red, sorry. They can lay down one of the slickest black paint jobs I've seen though.

Nothing much better than a tri five!!! wink wink

They did this one.

http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k1...edsuperrod.jpg

http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k1...mmed34rrdr.jpg

http://www.streetrodderweb.com/featu...dan/index.html

"She's a sweet ride" ... to quote a famous fictional short, stocky, dimwitted, bald unemployed man who lives with his parents. :lol:

Tommy, didn't Thunder Valley have a car in the great 8 at Riddler not too long ago or am I thinking of TNT? I know it was one of the shops over near you.