Excellent--thanks Jake--that is great to know. There are more factors to consider that I had not heard about until you mentioned them here in your response.

D

One more thing I will throw in their Jake.. Caliper mounting brackets.. Speedway welds a gusset plate on the floater they build for Winston Cup.. If the mount is not fully supported & flexes.. it can make you feel something on the brake pedal..

Exactly what I was thinking. They rebuild those cars after every race. And for somebody to say that they have NEVER had a problem, is a LIE. I can't tell you how many times I've heard that line calling misc. vendors. An axle seal out towards the flange is the safest alternative.

I've got more respect for you saying what you think than being one of the herd. :thumbsup: RTTC is a must. Great racing, party, and group of liars. :D

Even when I was just doing local short track stuff, we checked and packed the bearings on all four corners every couple weeks. With the sustained high g left turns, I would see a slight bit of wash in the floater hub bearings. I never had an external leak as long as I kept the o-ring seals in proper shape. I don't think you would have the bearing wash from rear end lube with normal street driving. When tracking or autocrossing, I consider that racing and therefore you should maintain the car as such. Ie. checking all the bearings, replacing and resetting pre-load. This will also help with knock-back. I agree with you on the " we have never seen that" comment. We agree also on the outer axle seal. At this point I will not run inner seals anymore. The other point I wanted to throw out is that floaters were not developed for racing. They were adapted. Originally they were supplied on heavy duty trucks. As racers always do, they saw the benefits these types of axles had and over the years developed them for racing. I'm sure most of you knew that, but for the folks reading that may not be involved in this conversation I just thought I would throw it out there.

Doug,

Thanks for the mention in your response. I am glad you started this thread, because it has brought out a lot of tech that I will certainly also use in making future decisions. Heck I'm already rethinking what we have for the current project. :lol: I really need to stop that. We need to finish this thing and quit changing stuff! :cheers:

the Caliper brackets are billet aluminum and bolt to the housing end as all Bare or Wilwood brake kits do.

I hate to come out and call anyone a liar, the fact that Speedway has been building these housings for some of the biggest NASCAR teams for over 20 year (and possibly longer that is the number i was told) and continue to do so would lead me to think that they have a product that is working. In the early days of running inner seals they had some issues apparently with oil moving past the seal, but like I said "since about 93-94 when they switched to a different seal design they have had no "issues" I will add "that they mentioned" and this was from the owner.

The housing DOES ALSO have a seal at the out board end of the tube and in discussions yesterday We have decided to make the inner seal an OPTION not a standard issue as they will require more "Checking" of the unit.

All these Opinoins and comments are good to make the product that much better.

NO DOUBT ABOUT IT.
and this is where some of the thought process has come from to use the ZR1 sealed hub... no maintance

The subject of Nascar in relation to products and parts being used is a little bit of a slippery slope. You will never see GMR components on any NASCAR chassis any time soon and possibly never. Believe me I have tried, the issue is more political then it is component biased. I really would love to see items stacked against each other side by side and let the teams decide but that is not the case. When it comes to Nascar is comes down to who is paying the most to have their products on the cars. I simply cant play that game, we are not large enough and that mentality does not sit well with my philosophy. I have personally seen failures in Nascar many times, its racing. This does not mean the parts are poor quality, it simply means that when you push the limits sometimes the limits push back. I have nothing but the up-most respect for the larger companies that I "compete" against. I would not be in this sport if it wasn't for these guys in the first place, the true originators who pushed the sport to progress well before my time. I feel as though our product line fits in a slightly different class then most, bottom line is Im making products with zero consideration to "how" I can make this cheaper, easier, or sell more of "X" unit. GMR will never reach the volume of the larger outfits, that is not my goal.

Now with that said I would like to address a point that seems to be brought up more often then not.

The issue of maintenance. I would love to tell you that our products are 100% maintenance free but then I would be lying. They are however, the easiest and lease maintenance when it comes to the floater market. I currently have guys that drive to autocross events, "bring - it" in several events, then drive home sometimes a few hundred miles each way. Here is one little reason why-

http://thegmr.com/wp-content/uploads...36-222x300.jpg

"The other often over looked element is the use of a precision machined crush sleeve. As you can see in the picture above there is a dark section of material between the bearings. This is a precision machined Chromoly sleeve that holds the bearing separation perfectly in line with the outer bearing races in the hub. This achieves three major things.

One – This sleeve locates the bearings in the optimal position for extended life, no more over tight bearings that fail prematurely.

Two – Allows for you to torque the snout nut up to 100 ft-lb (recommend 65 ft-lb) of torque, you will never crush the sleeve or the inner bearing race. They are simply too strong…

Three – Provides the ultimate in bearing strength, creates a solid structure on the snout that will provide more lateral strength because it locks the bearings perfectly in place." (thegmr.com)

I don't know anything about what you guys are talking about -- but it sure is interesting! Personally -- I love stuff like this and it's what makes LAT-G so rich. Rich, as in fulfilling - not money.

:cheers: :woot:

Ha, Greg, those are my thoughts exactly. This thread is one of my favorites in awhile and I am trying to "hang on by a thread" with all of this tech.

Hey Blake - understand the why of the SKF hub and like it. But...on the fronts they do require replacement after a certain amount of track time. Do you think the rear wear and tear would be about the same MTBF?

Anyone know what the Australian Supercars Ford rear ends are using? They might be a better comparison to PT applications than NASCAR. They definitely get abused and turn left and right. :D

Note - It looks like they may be switching to IRS in 2013.

[QUOTE=Ron in SoCal;391944]Hey Blake - understand the why of the SKF hub and like it. But...on the fronts they do require replacement after a certain amount of track time. Do you think the rear wear and tear would be about the same MTBF?[/QUOTE

From what i understand???? which isn't much sometimes lol the SKF ZR1 hub was designed for the ZR1 and for racing. it is much heavier duty than the C6 Z06 hub. the Z06 hub is the same as the standard C6 and that is what we use on the AFX Spindles ( it is what EVERYONE uses that supplies Corvette spindles on their suspension packages)

people keep talking about having to replace the hubs but we have never had anyone call asking or questioning or complaining about worn hubs??? yet


My nova has some hard miles on it with no issues as of yet. i think if a guy was going to the extent of a floater rear he would also upgrade to the ZR1 hubs in the front if he has AFX or Corvette spindles. they are in the 400.oo each range. the SKF Racing Hub is just a ZR1 factory hub no differance there.

Just to expand on something "ccracin" touched on. Floating axles are not new and in fact are run 100s of MILLIONS of hiway miles every year. Every truck you see 3/4ton and up is equipped with floaters. Every class 8 semi-truck you see running down the hiway is equipped with floaters and most are equipped with aluminum hubs. There is no magic about the floating axle design, it is no different than a two bearing front spindle on say an older 4x4 jeep or pickup. The current generation of 4x4 and front wheel drive cars/trucks is another example of a floating axle design with sealed bearings. There is a reason that circle track racers and off road racers adopted the floating axle design to their application. Simply stated, floaters are stronger than bearing on axle rear ends. Why you ask do manufacturers still provide bearing on axle rear ends? The answer is simple, cost. The bottom line is, regardless of the manufacturer, the floating axle design is far superior to bearing on axle designs.

I have run the same parts store c6 hubs for 2 years racing wheel to wheel, we check them but have not had to replace them.
In fact vinnys red car (my old shop car) has the same bearings in it that it had a motorstate in 09

I've got 6500 street miles and 20 races or better on mine. Still nice and tight. They are engineered for a corvette after all. :D

Here's a good question. What's on the C6R?

Thanks Jake. The Corvette guys quickly found the stock c6 hubs wore out after one season. If the SKF/ZR1 hubs last a long time than that's good news for Blake's product...:thumbsup:

Edit: The Vette 'may' pull a few more Gs than we do, or submit them to more hours which could cause explain a shorter life span.

Good point Ron. Let's keep in mind that this is a pro touring website. 99.9% of us aren't putting Z06 Corvette with road racing slicks load on thes cars, EVER. On top of that, we aren't putting daily driver miles on them either. ZR1 hubs should last the cars lifetime. Regular hubs may as well. Jake or I will let you guys know. :D I'd be interested to hear DSE or Finch on this subject. Rttc here we come.

I will have this new Floater set up in ResurreXion for RTTC and i will also have one on display, if any one is interested i can probably get a couple more done by then and deliver them as well.

Will you come down and help me put the new rear end in Rudys Camaro? :willy: :lol:

I just tore out all of his old leaf springs and ladder bars and converting him to coil overs and a new Ford 9" with all new ladder bars etc. It's heavy and I could use your head for holding it up in there while I weld up a couple things.

It's not a floater... and it's Pro STREET not Pro touring...



http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/a...maro/photo.jpg

Which new floater, chicanes?

i can do this............ but will need some help on the new kitchen cabinets when we are done. lol

WEll lets call it the Speedtech Chicane 9" floater.............. how about that. from now on. :_paranoid

I LIKE it! :thumbsup:

Figure it's time to post up some pictures of this unit.

http://i1235.photobucket.com/albums/...housingend.jpg

http://i1235.photobucket.com/albums/...hubandAxle.jpg

http://i1235.photobucket.com/albums/...ousingweld.jpg

http://i1235.photobucket.com/albums/...oaterbrake.jpg

http://i1235.photobucket.com/albums/...terhousing.jpg

[IMG]http://i1235.photobucket.com/albums/ff425/killer72
nova/SpeedtechPerformanceSpeedwayHousing.jpg[/IMG]

You're officially in the hardcore porn industry. :thumbsup:

one more

http://i1235.photobucket.com/albums/...wayHousing.jpg


I said it was nice didn't I ???

that is two seasons, one on 315 front/335 rear hoosier r1, and last year with yokohama a006 slick

Blake,
does your set up add much width to the rear over a new style torino end? I would only have roughly 1.5" to go before I hit my quad link brackets.

The OAW from the welded area on the housing end that you can see in the picture above to the hub face is 3.28" so actually less than a standard big ford end with 2.5" offset.

Currently we are ready to start production, I have a few being built now for customers as well as one that will be in ResurreXion (my Nova) for RTTC, I will also have a display unit at RTTC.
There are some limits to the ordering of these rearends,
1. NO you can not oreder the parts seperately and install them your self. The housing alignment is to critical.
2. NO you can not retrofit the ends to your existing housing, feel free to sell that one.
3. NO you can not order the housing with out suspension brackets and weld them on yourself. again housing alignment is critical.
4.YES you can get "NEW" suspension brackets from the company who's suspension you are running, supply all the dimensions required to attach them and for an additional labour fee of 65.00 per hour they can be installed.
5. The housings are available with out a 3rd member in 31 spline. 35 spline is an option CALL if that is what your interested in.
6. YES you can run any Corvette rear brake kit.
7. Yes there are options for different widths
8. YES We can also supply Very high quality all American made Center sections to complete the packace. ( Trutrack and Aluminum case upgrades if desired.)
9. YES there will be provisions for fluid circulation and cooling if requested.
10. YES for an additional charge you can request ARP wheel studs in 12mm or 1/2
This Floater will ONLY be available for 9" ford rear ends, NO others sorry

Camber and Toe adjustability and or preset is NOT an option at this time, we are working on getting more information on the possibility of being able to do this in the future, I know Chicane has been working on this and can probably give an update soon.

If anyone is interested call me directly, I can even deliver no charge to RTTC if you place an order in the next couple of days. sorry about the short notice.
Blake

Daaaaayuuuum that is nice.

How Much
 

So how much lighter is a guys wallet going to be? I know it all depends on the options, but do you have any ballpark numbers?

Candle Stick Park or Yankee Stadium????


With a third member approx 4200.00 just paint it and bolt it in.

Todd that's only $3200 more than those LED headlights! Knock-knock......so much for your car being completed. :D

like the post above says if you have a current 9" 3rd member it will fit. and you can reduce the price by 1500.00

Blake I get why you're limiting the floater to a complete kit, it just strikes me that you maybe limiting your potential customer base (all the guys drooling in this thread - including me - who already have complete rear ends) by only offering it this way. What are your thoughts on a speedtech 'certified' installer program? There's lots of guys out there like Speedway, Currie and others that certainly have the jigs and skills to ensure proper alignment. Just a thought...:yes:

I do understand your point, but here is part of the issue. think of it from the vendors stand point. Here is a high end part that is ment to do a high end job. If we were to sell all the parts needed to do an install and the shop,/ guy who did the istall didn't do it correctly then what happens to the reputation of the product........... we all know that the guy who bought it as a kit will not "tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth" and then it is a fault with the product. Also if you think about it the only EXTRA part you would be purchasing is the Housing. I don't have the exact cost of just the housing but we might be talking about 700-900 on the high side. Consider if you were to send your housing to have the ends installed, first you have strip it to bare metal $$$ ship it $$$ then they check it for straightness, what if the seals don't fit your tubes?? what if after the ends are cut off the tubes are to short??? now the housing is cut and cleaned and shipped and won't work. now you need to buy a housing and brackets anyway.
So to just eliminate all that not to mention the screwup factor, and not many guys like welding gear oil soaked housings.
If you are in the market for a rear end of this caliber then I feel 700-900 is not going to be the end of the deal.

Sometimes you just have to make the call. We try to accomadate as many people as possible but can't make everyone happy. We still have the option for non floating rear ends as well.
:cheers:

I've had a lot of conversations these past two weeks on this topic. Thanks to Payton for giving up watching the X-Games to chat with me late into the night, and for all of you who have posted! In the end, it was Todd's post where he said "Dayummmm---that is nice" that did it for me. I just want his acceptence.

After much debating and searching, I have ended up with the new Speedtech Chicane 9" --accompanied by their torque arm setup.

It was the free shipping to RTTC in March---you know me.

Blake, thank you very much!! Fed Ex going out tomorrow to you--


Doug