Lou I thought you posted up pictures of my car !! Its almost exactly how my panels lined up... WOW!

Hey Mario why are you posting pictures of my qtr panel and trunk lid??? :D :lol: I think we all have pictures like these??

X2
Looks like they are on the right track to making it right.:thumbsup:

Charlie and other icons in this hobby/sport are proof that people don't have to let success go to their head.

Similarly, at Sema the last two years, Mark Stielow appeared to be more than happy to spend more than 15 minutes answering all my newbie questions about Red Devil and Mayhem.

No wonder those guys are good buddies. Birds of a feather.

Lou I'm not any kind of Icon. I'm just a idiot that has cars and no money. My build standards have far surpassed my build abilities so I manage to talk Stielow out of his junk.

:lol:


Definitely in the top 10 for lat-g post of the year... :unibrow:

The axle housing looks great. V8TV does some nice work.

The 9" vs. Dana vs. 12 Bolt parasitic loss comparison is more legit for a race car seeking to optimize every system on the car. Car Craft did a Dana 60 (Strange version) vs. 12 bolt vs. 9" and found them all to be very close.

http://image.carcraft.com/f/techarti...ison_chart.jpg


The flexibility of available gear ratios, strength, and housings makes the 9" a good choice for this project.

In my opinion, any power loss by virtue of using a Ford 9" vs. a 12 bolt will not likely be noticed while I am driving the car.

I'm not afraid to admit that I simply do not have the driving skills it would require to actually miss that little bit of difference.

Frankly, I am more interested in minimizing the chance of failure due to extra stresses my less than perfect driving skills can impose on the system.

In addition, the original factory 12 bolt went to a very appreciative new owner who was looking far exactly that piece. It wouldn't have been right modifying that unit.

While we're on the topic, here are some pics taken during assembly of the rear end.

We ordered the 370 ratio, nodular iron, 9+ unit from Currie.

http://v8tvshow.com/1969_Camaro_LC/s...2.06.12_50.JPG


http://v8tvshow.com/1969_Camaro_LC/s...2.06.12_48.JPG


http://v8tvshow.com/1969_Camaro_LC/s...2.06.12_55.JPG


Of course the 3rd member was shipped with the set up grease still in place so we could observe the contact pattern. Kevin and Trevor have set up quite a few of these. The pattern looked good to their experienced eyes.

http://v8tvshow.com/1969_Camaro_LC/s...2.06.12_47.JPG


http://v8tvshow.com/1969_Camaro_LC/s...2.06.12_65.JPG


After carefully preparing his work area to prevent contamination and scratches, Trevor began the assembly process.

http://v8tvshow.com/1969_Camaro_LC/s...2.11.12_01.JPG


This shot shows the relocation of the Currie emblem and one of the tow strap attachment points V8TV added for convenience.

http://v8tvshow.com/1969_Camaro_LC/s...2.11.12_04.JPG


http://v8tvshow.com/1969_Camaro_LC/s...2.11.12_10.JPG


Currie axles and Wilwood emergency brakes installed:

http://v8tvshow.com/1969_Camaro_LC/s...2.11.12_24.JPG

Finally, the Wilwood "floating" rear calipers were installed.

http://v8tvshow.com/1969_Camaro_LC/s...2.11.12_41.JPG

http://v8tvshow.com/1969_Camaro_LC/s...2.11.12_35.JPG

Can't wait to heat those up a bit...

During the Holidays my son Dan was in town.

We we were able to spend some enjoyable time with Kevin and Kelle at
their V8 Speed & Restoration Shop discussing the next steps for the build.

While there, I took a few pics of the latest metal work.

The rear tailpanel and both quarters are permanently aligned and welded in now.

http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/...ps6de1fb08.jpg

The DSE "Deep Tubs" and the upper shock crossmember for the "QUADRALink" rear suspension are installed.

http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/...ps0a14dd13.jpg

http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/...ps9cf60e15.jpg

http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/...ps08acba20.jpg

As a customer, I like the piece of mind that comes with seeing how the V8 Speed and Restoration crew puts the same level of care and detail into all their welds, even those few people will ever see ..like these.

http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/...ps3e695725.jpg

The DSE subframe connectors are welded in.

http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/...ps8e8ee2aa.jpg

Work has begun on the roll cage. We are using a Chassisworks unit made specifically for first generation Camaros but it is being modified by V8 to achieve the tightest fit to the body shell possible.

http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/...ps7aa713d3.jpg

http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/...psa4f89bec.jpg

http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/...ps9fe6b34b.jpg

Besides tucking it close to the shell, modifications to the roll cage included bending the uprights so they more closely follow the lines of the door and the seam between the front and rear windows. Doing so will make the cage less conspicuous as viewed from outside the car.

http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/...psf672c298.jpg

As a result of leaning the cross bar back a little, the top side tubes had to then be extended by first sleeving them inside and then recoping the extensions to the rear top cross bar.

http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/...ps6273d0c0.jpg

The front header bar was placed as far forward as possible for maximum head room. Of course this will require a clever mounting strategy for sun visors as the original mounting method will not work with this bar in this location. We have some ideas for that we'll show later, if they work as planned.

http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/...ps74038a08.jpg

That fits nice and tight. It looks good.

x2! Thanks for the write up Lou. I saw the cage at SEMA and for prefab it looks really good. Your mods make it top notch :thumbsup:

That rear setup looks nice.
What's with the Wilwood calipers ? I count six but it is clearly marked 4 piston?

Great build thread. Learned alot.

Good question.

The shape of the rear calipers certainly suggests there would be 6 pistons inside but there are actually only four. Here are some pics of the front and rear calipers before installation that show what is really inside of each.

The front, 6 piston calipers:

http://v8tvshow.com/1969_Camaro_LC/s....17.12_073.JPG

http://v8tvshow.com/1969_Camaro_LC/s....17.12_076.JPG

The rear, 4 piston calipers:

http://v8tvshow.com/1969_Camaro_LC/s....17.12_095.JPG

http://v8tvshow.com/1969_Camaro_LC/s....17.12_098.JPG

Glad the thread is helping you just as other threads are helping us!

What is installing the headliner going to be like with the cage tucked up nice and tight?

It's going to be a little tricky, but it's nothing that our interior guy can't handle. We're not putting the cage tubes butted against the roof or anything like that. I think the bigger challenge will be for the painter to get good coverage on the cage.

Kev...how do you weld the crossbar on top where it is clsoe to the roof? With great difficulty, I'd imagine...:yes:

Yeah, and a flexible TIG torch, short tungstens, and small hands!

1969 Camaro "Lou's Change" T-56 Magnum Transmission Install Videos
 

Here's the 2 videos covering the install of the T-56 Magnum 6-speed manual we installed in "Lou's Change". We needed to cut the floor in our Camaro, but we're told some stock subframe cars might not need the trans tunnel mods. We're also hearing of transmissions with certain ribs ground off to gain clearance. In our case, the tunnel mods were the best option.

I thought I might share some of the modifications that we made to the roll cage rear drops and explain the reasoning behind those changes.

First, lets look at the stock first gen rear suspension. The blue arrows indicate the load path points between the rear axle and the body.

http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/...psdb424bc7.jpg

Since we installed the Detroit Speed QUADRA Link rear suspension and mini tubs the load path between the rear axle and the body changed. The rear most location of that load path is now at the coil overs as shown in this sketch.

http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/...ps6e5bbc25.jpg

In order to shorten the load path from the rear axle to the roll cage we decided to modify the rear drops of the cage as shown in this sketch.

http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/...ps77b249b4.jpg

http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/...ps89cd15f1.jpg

Here's what that modification looks like in real life.

Some high horsepower first gens. have been known to develop stress cracks in the rear quarters. While welded in frame connectors have a reputation of reducing the risk of stress cracks, we feel this modification might further reduce the chances of that happening.
Short of doing a full blown finite element analysis of the entire system its hard to know for sure.

Some might argue the weight of the fuel tank is less supported with these modifications. Most design decisions are trade off decisions. In the end, the fact that these mods will clean up the trunk so nice won out. Our reasoning included reminding ourselves that the factory structure was designed to handle the weight of the fuel tank without any assistance from a roll cage structure.

To further clean up the trunk area we plan to mount the battery on top of the rear shock cross member. We will also mount our two II Much Fabrication vents, one for the gas tank and one for the rear axle, on top of the cross member.

The V8TV crew re manufactured the rear drop bars so they closely followed the rear window opening. The goal on the whole cage install was to make it show up as little as possible as viewed from outside the car.

http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/...ps23b38c36.jpg

http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/...ps1162d503.jpg

http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/...ps502028be.jpg

http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/...ps5926ad89.jpg

http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/...ps0e9a6aa3.jpg

http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/...ps1e07bd75.jpg

http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/...ps40638c69.jpg

Hi Guys

Okay drag racers have been doing this modifications for years. Here is an example in a heavily modified 2011 Nickey Camaro.

Attachment 38324

Attachment 38325

Attachment 38326

I bet he still calls you a few names while he is installing the headliner.

Car is looking awesome

Recent work at V8TV has included mocking up the radiator, A/C condensor and intercooler along with the custom hood latch assy. to free up the room needed behind the grill for all those cooling devices.

The parts being used include:

2nd Gen radiator module from C&R that includes two fans
Vintage air A/C condensor
Shelby 500 Intercooler with its own two fans.
Volkswagen "THING" Hood latch

It's all still a work in process but the fabrication of the various needed brackets is coming along. We'll post some more pics when the parts are further cleaned up and painted.

We went with C&R's 2nd Gen. F body module instead of their drop in place 1st Gen. module simply because it has more total cooling area.

Once the location of the radiator relative to the core support was determined
a bottom support bracket for the radiator was fabricated. The yellow tape on the core support denotes where the window in the core support was enlarged to allow airflow to the whole radiator core.

http://v8tvshow.com/1969_Camaro_LC/s...1.15.13_01.JPG

http://v8tvshow.com/1969_Camaro_LC/s...1.15.13_02.JPG

http://v8tvshow.com/1969_Camaro_LC/s...1.15.13_03.JPG

http://v8tvshow.com/1969_Camaro_LC/s...1.21.13_16.JPG

http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/...ps55a43ccf.jpg

The hood latch assembly was mocked up, bracketry made and then mounted.

http://v8tvshow.com/1969_Camaro_LC/s...1.19.13_07.JPG
http://v8tvshow.com/1969_Camaro_LC/s...1.19.13_09.JPG
http://v8tvshow.com/1969_Camaro_LC/s...1.19.13_16.JPG

http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/...psabbc948a.jpg

http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/...ps7ecde247.jpg

So.... it's starting to come together. Combination shroud / mounting brackets are now in place.

http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/...ps22c4098b.jpg

http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/...ps79844c78.jpg

http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/...psd9fdc81c.jpg

Since we have so many fans, we want to use Pulse Width Modulation (PWM) fan control of the radiator fans instead of On/Off control.

We don't want the car to sound like a vacuum cleaner unless it's really hot and we need all fans full on.

There are numerous ways to setup PWM control of the fans.

In order to figure out the best way for this application, I started a thread in the engines section of this forum.

There is a lot of really good information and tips brewing over there in that thread.

Here is a link to it: https://lateral-g.net/forums/showthread.php4?t=40215

Whoa - HUGE picture alert!

Very cool build - I've been lurking on this one since the beginning and had to post a comment on the roll cage. It's good to see someone thinking through their mods with purpose behind them and not just do something to "be different." Great work on the build so far!

Sorry for the pic size in last post. I will find out why that happened and fix it.

In the meantime, Thank you and others for your compliments on our build.

To be honest, most of the the fabrication ideas come from Kevin and Trevor.

They take the time to listen to their customer and then propose design options they think will yield the happiest owner experience in the long run.

I've been managing new product development engineers for over 25 years and I've been very impressed with their their thoughtful approach, especially from an engineering perspective.

How much room did you leave between the GT500 intercooler and the radiator?

Without driving to the shop and measuring, from memory and review of the pics above, I would say nominally about 4 inches or so between the intercooler and the radiator.

The intercooler is the first item in the stack behind the grill. The intercooler fans are "puller" type so they logically reside between the intercooler core and the A/C condensor.

Behind the A/C condensor is the radiator core support. The radiator is mounted to the back side of the core support.

Kevin and Trevor had to juggle a lot of requirements to get everything mounted in an optimized way without violating any constraints.

For instance, they had to leave enough room for the one off, custom grill assembly my son Dan designed.

They had to completely redesign the factory hood latch assembly and bracketry (using builds like JackAss, Red Devil, etc. for clues)

We will be using a stock looking front spoiler that also deflects air up into the heat exchangers.

We will also be using custom, one off hood louvers to further enhance air flow through the heat exchangers.

If you look closely, you will notice that the V8TV team strives to minimize weight while providing function (as evidenced by the holes in the radiator support shelf for instance).

As the owner of the car and one who likes to tinker, I also appreciate how they plan the design of everything they fabricate down to the fastener level so I will be able to take things apart and put them back together without having 3 hands. Whenever possible, they design brackets with captured nuts and/or threads so installation and removal of parts is typically a one sided operation with a logical sequence.

Thanks for the info - yeah I can see a lot of planning would have to go into that small package.

I was kind of thinking of getting that gt500 fan setup and install when I get around to buying/installing the Edelbrock blower kit for my LSx motor in the Vette.

Whoa! Glad I saw this, I had no idea that the Wilwoods had no dust-boots on the calipers!

I know Wilwood offers a line of brakes that do have dust boots.

I'm no brake expert but I think you might find that the highest performance product offerings from several brake companies utilize seals vs. dust boots. I'm sure they have good reasons for doing so.

Of course, each person needs to select the parts that best meet their specific needs and purpose. No one design is necessarily better than the other until the use of the product is considered.

OEM applications typically use dust boots so I would guess the reasons you want dust seals mirrors what the majority of people desire for their applications.

I couldn't agree more! My Firebird won't be hounding the Stielows, Pozzis, or Tuckers on autocross tracks and will spend 99.5% of it's life on regular roads where I plan to drive in all sorts of traffic and weather conditions. That means lots of dirt, dust, moisture, and brake dust so these wouldn't be a good choice for my build. Your car is way beyond anything I'm building, and I love it!

Wilwood uses stainless steel pistons so that dust boots aren't needed. The reason for that is that dust boots will melt at high temperatures, including the temps that occur during a typical HPDE. The Brembos on my Z06 don't have dust boots either, and for the same reason.

Why do so many folks go with Wildwood versus a Brembo system? Used Brembo four piston systems of a Camaro, CTS-V, Challenger etc are fairly plentiful to find on ebay.

What about C5 or c6 corvette brakes.

I must confess I REALLY like the look and size of the new CTSV brakes.

Just curious

The Camaro and CTS-V brakes don't bolt directly onto the C6 spindles that are used on a wide variety of aftermarket subframes.

Wilwood has kits for a ton of applications and seem to provide good value for their price.

For those worried about the dust seal debate, I don't think it as big an issue as some make it out to be. I have 50,000 miles on a set of AP Racing brakes with no issue.

Matt

I've never seen boots melt on a properly functioning caliper under any circumstances but I have seen them melt on cars that had worn through all of the pad material. The boots are only 1/16-1/8" from the piston seals, if it's too hot for a boot the seal would melt too.

Perhaps I'm too cautious but I'll err on the side of caution when it comes to brakes.

It’s a good time for an update.

The QUADRALink and brake lines have been installed.

http://v8tvshow.com/1969_Camaro_LC/s....22.13_024.JPG

The DSE subframe, loaded with it's ZL1 spec. LSA crate motor and T56 Magnum was reunited with the car to create a roller again.

http://v8tvshow.com/1969_Camaro_LC/s...2.20.13_24.JPG

http://v8tvshow.com/1969_Camaro_LC/s....22.13_057.JPG

http://v8tvshow.com/1969_Camaro_LC/s....22.13_101.JPG

The wiring and plumbing is well underway and almost complete.

The goal is to achieve an OEM look without a lot of clutter.

That requires a lot of thoughtful mounting of components and routing of the associated plumbing and wiring.

Fortunately, that is one of Trevor’s specialties at V8TV.

The battery and VaporWorx control module were mounted behind the rear seat.

http://v8tvshow.com/1969_Camaro_LC/s....22.13_007.JPG

The ash tray became home for the fuse panel.

The Dakota Digital VHX gauge modules are mounted in the glove compartment.

http://v8tvshow.com/1969_Camaro_LC/s....22.13_001.JPG

Trevor fabricated a bracket and mounted the Vintage Air dryer to the cowl inside the passenger fender area.

http://v8tvshow.com/1969_Camaro_LC/s...2.07.13_05.JPG

The Meziere intercooler pump was mounted to the rear passenger side of the core support.

http://v8tvshow.com/1969_Camaro_LC/s...2.07.13_08.JPG

AC and heater hoses were run inside passenger fender.

http://v8tvshow.com/1969_Camaro_LC/s....22.13_013.JPG

In order to keep overall fan noise down, we decided to employ Pulse Width
Modulation (PWM) control of the radiator fans instead of discreet,
two speed fan controls.

That will allow the fans to only run as fast as needed to keep things cool.

To do so, we are using the same PWM fan control modules used on all C6 Corvettes and reprogramming the E67 Engine Control Module that came with our crate motor so it can drive the PWM fan modules instead of conventional fan relays.

The fan control modules are mounted inside the passenger fender as shown.

The picture only shows one module but there will be another one mounted on the other side of the same bracket.

http://v8tvshow.com/1969_Camaro_LC/s....22.13_017.JPG

The Hydratech brake assist and Wilwood master cylinder mounted as expected.

http://v8tvshow.com/1969_Camaro_LC/s....22.13_118.JPG

As much wiring as possible was run through the driver side fender to keep things sanitary under the hood.

http://v8tvshow.com/1969_Camaro_LC/s....22.13_113.JPG

The engine is set pretty far back.

So much so, the DSE wiper motor will not fit in the stock location so that will be relocated to the cowl area inside the driver fender.

http://v8tvshow.com/1969_Camaro_LC/s....22.13_132.JPG

It's all beginning to look like a serious Pro-Touring machine. It won't be long and it will all be taken apart again…… this time for body and paint.

http://v8tvshow.com/1969_Camaro_LC/s....22.13_125.JPG

http://v8tvshow.com/1969_Camaro_LC/s....22.13_112.JPG

Looking great, nice clean job on all the hose and wire routing.

Greg