Thank you, appreciate it :thumbsup:

Thank you Wayne

Sorry I missed you guys... Next time your out this way definitely give me a call and stop by. Bring your car to.

Thanks Dale. Very cool clean setup.

You say your tank holds 3.5 gallons when half full. That can't be right. You must be 3.5 gallons if it was 100% full, yes?

I am going with a minimum of 4 gallons myself as well per 95% of the recommendations I have sought out and for trunk position. I also will have a cell to deal with but I see you have a factory type fuel tank. I envy you!

Again, very nice setup and thanks for passing on the info. I may end up doing a custom shaped tank like you as well.

Thanks Flash!

When I first put oil in my dry sump system (after draining completely) I use a total of 3.5 gallons of oil… I dump one quart into the new oil filter and then add 13 quarts of oil in the tank in the trunk. I have a bung on the side of the oil tank with a removable plug at the halfway point so I know when the tank is half full. After adding the 13 quarts into the tank the oil just starts to come out the hole. Some of the oil added to the tank goes into the pressure line going to the pump… so this accounts for some of the oil volume.

So the tank in the trunk is half full with 3.5 gallons of oil in the system with a fresh oil change. The reason the tank is run only half full is to allow for variations in the oil level. As the RPM of the engine increase the volume of oil returning to the tank increases. If I run more than 14 quarts of oil in the system then I start seeing oil in my remote breather tank. It’s kind of a balancing act… you want to make sure you always have a head of oil in the tank to supply the pressure section of the pump… and you need to have a tank with enough capacity to allow for variations of oil volume at the tank during low and high RPM operation.

I am no expert on dry sump systems but I did research and took advice from people who design dry sump systems, and have experience running dry sump systems, and this is what they recommended for running a dry sump system with the tank mounted in the trunk. I have run the engine on the street and also wide open on the track and everything is working well. For extra piece of mind… I installed a warning light (pressure switch) that turns on if the oil pressure drops below 18psi… so far I have never seen the light come on.


Here is a picture that shows the bung and brass plug at the halfway point on the oil tank.

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/...ps757b3109.jpg

Your car project is very cool... i like it :cool:

:thumbsup:

Killer Dale. Can you show how you routed the lines from the trunk forward?

dry sump pump system install
 

Thanks Ron... I know that you are at this stage of your build to start plumbing your dry sump oil system. It's a lot of extra work but well worth it knowing the engine will get a good supply of oil while running wide open and cornering hard out on the track :D

Look forward to seeing you get that 427" fired up.

dry sump pump system install
 

For the dry sump oil pump I used a NRC 4 stage Pro Series pump. I could have gone with a 3 stage to simplify the plumbing... but the extra scavenge stage creates about 10 inches HG of vacuum in the engine and gives you a little extra HP (about 15 HP in my engine). The 4 stage pump has one pressure section and three scavenge sections.

The pump is mounted to my engine block using a billet aluminum mounting bracket that bolts to the factory mount holes on the LS block. I worked with the engine builder to test the mounting bracket before I installed the engine in the car. He made some adjustments to the bracket design until the pump was in the exact right position to clear the sub frame... and allow for adjustment of the cog belt drive.


http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/...8-04081006.jpg


http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/...8-04080529.jpg


A.C. loaned me this busted up block to use for testing the fit of the pump and mounting bracket.

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/...2-12181422.jpg


http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/...2-12180809.jpg


To drive the pump we used a Manley forged crank that had an extended nose designed for mounting the cog pulley.

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/...psa01b38d8.jpg


The pump has a nice rigid mounting bracket.

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/...ps299f4f76.jpg



The line on the left is the pressure line and goes into a port at the back of the engine behind the valley cover.
The line on the right is the scavenge return line that goes to the oil tank mounted in the trunk.

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/...psb3c56a21.jpg


http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/...ps9fd9c753.jpg


For the oil pan the engine builder purchased a Canton pan and then customized it by adding extra clearance for the rod bolts, and adding the 3 scavenge ports.
There is one scavenge port on the right side of the pan and two on the left side.

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/...ps56b9e251.jpg


I'll show all the routing of the plumbing in another post tomorrow.

:sieg:
I drove out to Sieg's house last Saturday and picked up a brand new KTM dirt bike that he was nice enough to get me a deal on… and he picked it up at the KTM dealership for me. Thanks again Scott! It was great to meet you and check out your car and workshop (not to mention Rev and Tucker!).

Greg Weld wheeled through town earlier in the day with his new big rig to visit with Scott and I just missed him by a few hours. I was hoping to meet him and see the new rig while I was there.


Now I have a bit of color in my garage with the new dirt bike

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/...psefa28699.jpg


I’ve met a few Lat-G members now since joining this forum…. maybe there could be a local track day get together sometime in the future. :lateral:

You KTM vinyl top guys gotta stick together :lol:

Dale part one above was great. Looking forward to part two!

Now that garage looks Proper! Good deal all the way around Dale. Look forward to the next time. :thumbsup:

Ron must have confused KTM with KY :sieg:

KY - happens all the time lol

Sorry I missed meeting you Dale!


I'll see ya at a Beaches Wednesday afternoon....

What you bringing?
Sieg are you coming to beaches also? Mini lat-g get together?

I know nothing of their little date :sieg:

I'd bring "da rig" with everything!!! LOL









If you've never been to a Wednesday afternoon Beaches show in Portland -- ya ain't lived yet! They don't start up for awhile yet -- but often have 1500 cars -- and 600 murdercycles.... they start at 3:30is and runs til about 7:30 or 8:00... drags -- music -- food -- booze -- cars... what's not to like??

You'd also get to watch Old Gold hammer the track there like it's made of glue...

We should all meet up sometime in June when they start. Not the first week though cause it's the Rose Festival, and that's a guarantee that it will rain.

Sounds like a plan! :thumbsup:

I'm not seeing of lot of builds on this site going with the vinyl top look, Lol. The cosmetics on my car are pretty much all original so far.

I took a bunch of pictures today of the plumbing underneath the car to post. Are you putting your tank in the engine compartment or in the trunk?

Thanks Scott... It's good to get to know few guys on here :thumbsup:

Thanks Greg... a Beaches Lat-g get together sounds good!

Sounds good, maybe we can get Tim out there to.

dry sump plumbing from engine to tank in trunk
 

Here is a shot of the plumbing for the three scavenge lines on the oil pan. My engine was run on the engine dyno with the dry sump pump and measured 10 inch HG vacuum. The valve covers are completely sealed with no vents. The only vent is a 4AN line plumbed into the valley cover that goes to a remote breather.

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/...psd0b8d0b3.jpg


Here are some shots showing how I routed the plumbing underneath.

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/...psb41e2139.jpg


You can see the plumbing in the left side of pictures tucked up next to the frame rail and sub frame connectors.

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/...psbe8e308e.jpg


I also up-sized my exhaust to 3" all the way back for the new engine. I bought some mandrel bent tubes and had some tubes custom made...
then fit and welded the tubes. This was my first time to do my own exhaust.

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/...ps0d079873.jpg


These shots are from the back of the car looking forward... the oil lines go up into the trunk and attach to the oil tank.

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/...ps218726a1.jpg


http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/...psd4f052a5.jpg


http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/...ps6f6d5bbc.jpg


I ran the oil lines up above the new cross member that came with the T56 Magnum... this worked out good to keep the lines away from the exhaust.

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/...ps4f581e9f.jpg

dry sump pump system install
 

When I modified the tunnel for the T56 magnum trans I also cut a notch in the floor on the passenger side for the dry sump oil lines.
This allowed me to tuck the oil lines up above the exhaust to prevent heat damage. I used 1-1/2" square tubing... cut it to fit... and then welded all around.

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/...ps240c3406.jpg


This shows the clearance of the oil lines to the headers.

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/...ps9fd9c753.jpg


The oil lines are sitting on top of the sub frame rail.

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/...ps61ef710b.jpg



Here is a shot of the oil lines going into the notch I cut in the floor. This worked out well and the lines have plenty of clearance from the exhaust.
The lines continue on and go up above the T56 trans cross member and then alongside the frame and sub frame connectors back to the tank in the trunk.

The oil lines are up above the frame rails the whole length of the run.
The oil lines do not go below the frame rails at any point.


http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/...psd0e11fac.jpg

Very nice work on this one Dale,some great ideas

Wait til you own a Freightliner! I just had the 10,000 mile oil and filters done... it holds 10 GALLONS of oil in the crankcase... and the service was almost $500 -- but that included 2 gallons of Lucas Oil (20% is all they recommend). LOL



The dry sump system looks good Dale!

Just read the entire build thread. Great write-up and very detailed. Awesome job!

Pure function, f'n awesome Dale. I'll bet you loved buying all those -AN fittings :lol:

Thank you for documenting! :cheers:

Looks great Dale. :thumbsup:

Do you have before and after engine, trans, dry-sump weights for the car?

Thank you Jeff! By the way I really like the wheel choice on your build... Very nice.

Thank you Greg… appreciate the compliment.

I need to buy oil by the gallon, and you need to buy it by the barrel, Lol.

I think it’s great what you are doing... traveling around… working on builds... enjoying life… having fun. That's what it's all about. Glad to see you have a nice rig now :thumbsup:

:relax:


Thanks Jay! I’ve been following your build also… very nice work.

No problem Ron… all I can say is that I am very glad to be done with the dry sump plumbing… It took me over three weeks in my spare time to do all the plumbing. There were times when It just didn't seem possible to fit all the lines... but I stuck with it and in the end it worked out. I spent several thousand dollars on the tank, hoses, and AN fittings. The 16 AN fittings and stainless braided hose is very expensive.

“Pure Function” almost sounds like it could be my car build name.

:cheers:


Thank you Sieg :thumbsup:

Going from a cast iron gen 1 small block with aluminum heads, cast iron PS pump, and full size steel starter….. to the aluminum LS block, KRC light weight PS pump, and mini starter, I was able to reduce the weight of the engine by over 90 LB.

The difference in weight between the Muncie 4 speed (85 LB) and T56 Magnum (115 LB) six speed is approx 30 LBS… so overall I reduced the total weight of the car by about 60 LBS and shifted the weight back some.

I don't have the weight of the car with the old set up... but I did weigh the car with the new LS engine and T56 transmission. The total weight with fuel was 3,470 LB... front 1,840 LB and rear 1,630 LB (53% front, 47% rear). Do you know the weight on your car?

Dale, thanks for posting all the photos and details. Very nicely done.

:thumbsup:

Dale - Before alum heads with 1/2 tank and me in it 3460# on public truck scale.

I was curious how much those dry sump lines and 3.5 gal. of oil added.

Can't wait to see and hear your car in person. :thumbsup:

Glad to share the info on here... I know that your are looking at putting a dry sump tank in the trunk... so far the trunk set up is working great. It's a bit of extra plumbing but it's nice to have the extra room under the hood.

Thanks Sieg... I'm looking forward to meeting up with you and some other lat-g guys out at Beaches in June! I would be curious what your weight distribution is compared to mine... our cars are very similar other than I have the aluminum block.

dry sump pump system install
 

Plumbing from the oil pan to the dry sump pump...

The three 10AN scavenge lines from the oil pan are routed to the driver side of the engine and then up towards the front of the car. The three lines make a loop and then go back to the three scavenge sections on the bottom of the dry sump pump.


http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/...ps95f92926.jpg


http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/...ps39f71853.jpg


http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/...ps6542ac0e.jpg


http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/...ps32495a31.jpg



On the top side of the dry sump pump a single 16AN line goes back to the tank mounted in the trunk (the 90 deg fitting on the right).

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/...psb3c56a21.jpg


http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/...psd0e11fac.jpg


There is a screen type filter in the 16AN line going back to the tank in the trunk. The screen filter prevents debris from entering the tank.

dry sump pump pressure line
 

The pressure line from the dry sump pump goes into a remote mount oil filter. I bought a billet aluminum filter mount from Moroso and built a custom bracket that bolts on using the same bolts that hold on the hood hinge... this worked good... the mount is very solid and I didn't have to drill holes in the firewall or inner fender.


http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/...psd2044c40.jpg


http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/...ps26a625d9.jpg



The pressure line exits the oil filter and is plumbed into a port at the back of the block.
I ran a tee of the main line line with a 3AN fitting and hose to my oil pressure gauge inside the car.

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/...ps18a89e23.jpg


This pic shows the pressure line going into the port at the back of the engine block

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/...ps8cc072fd.jpg


That's it for the dry sump plumbing :headspin:

I would say that installing the dry sump system was much more work than I expected. It took several weeks after I installed the engine to mount the oil tank in the trunk and complete all the plumbing.

I decided to go with the dry sump so I could track the car and know that my engine would always have a good oil supply while cornering. The dry sump system should help to extend the life of the engine.

I know lots of guys on here run dry sump systems on their engines. I have not seen too much info on dry sump systems with the tank installed in the trunk. So far this has worked out good. The engine builder had lots of experience with this type of set up and said it would be no problem at all as long as all of the lines and tank are sized properly.

Glad I'm done with this part of the project... :D :lateral:

This past weekend the weather cleared up, and the sun was out so I took a few pictures.

Nice to have the car done... and back on the road again after working on it all winter :D


http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/...ps667bee8b.jpg


http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/...ps088401e8.jpg


http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/...ps9055a69d.jpg


http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/...ps8f97738c.jpg


http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/...psaeb84376.jpg

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Nice track weapon! :thumbsup:

Sweet !

Love it, Dale. She's a fine machine. :rockin:

Congrats Dale. :thumbsup:

Very impressive build execution.

Very Clean

T56 Magnum & hydraulic clutch set up
 

Thanks guys, appreciate it! :thumbsup:


I have been driving the car for about a month now with the new T56 Magnum transmission… the Corvette ZR1 twin disc clutch… Fidanza aluminum flywheel… and the hydraulic clutch conversion. The ZR1 clutch is the best clutch I’ve ever had in the car! Very smooth engagement, quiet (no rattles), and the grip is excellent. I bought the modified ZR1 Clutch that is rated for 960 lb-ft torque, and I used a GM ZR1 throwout bearing. Even with the high torque rating the clutch still takes very little effort at the pedal and is extremely smooth on engagement.

I went with a Fidanza 12 LB aluminum flywheel to offset some of the extra weight of the GM twin disc clutch. It takes a bit more RPM to get going but still very easy to drive. I like the feel of the engine with the lighter flywheel.

The T56 magnum transmission has a very short throw, and just seems to click into gear with very little effort.... shifting up or down. The trans shifts at higher RPM with no problems at all. Shifting at peak RPM took a bit more effort on the lever but it still shifted great. I have the close ratio T56 with 0.80 5th gear and 0.63 6th gear… with a 3.73 rear axle in the car it felt just about right in 1st gear. Cruising at 75 mph in 6th gear the RPM is just over 2K.

The only issue I had on the transmission conversion was with the hydraulic clutch kit. The kit came with a Tilton ¾” bore master cylinder with a 1.1”stroke. I ended up using all of the stroke to get the clutch to disengage. I drove the car for about a week with this set up… but didn’t like the feel of the ¾” bore master… it took too much travel on the pedal to disengage the clutch… and it was difficult to shift quickly. Maybe the GM twin disc clutch just takes more travel to disengage than a single disc clutch. I ended up replacing the ¾” bore master cylinder with a Tilton 7/8”bore and now it’s much better. The action is quicker and the clutch feels just right.


Here is pic of the 3/4" bore master cylinder on the bottom, and the new 7/8" master on the top

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/...psd4e453a5.jpg


Ready to go back in the car

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/...ps492cbf15.jpg


Here is a list of part numbers for all the bores sizes of the Tilton clutch master cylinder kits for anyone interested. I bought the kit from Summit.

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/...psbbcc987c.jpg


It took a couple of months work and a lot of time spent under the car before I could stick this part on :D

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/...ps94ff1b8c.jpg

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/...ps40b9580f.jpg


That’s it for the trans and clutch conversion… everything is working good now.
:relax:

Just read thru your thread. I think I ran across your car @ Beaches couple years back. I also had AC rebuild my Pontiac engine as well. He tried to talk me into one of the LS long blocks he had sitting on engine stands, but I was dumb and rebuilt the Pontiac motor instead.

I lived about 10 mins from AC before I moved to Houston. Small world.

I started my engine build with A.C. a couple years ago also. I was there with my cousin who was getting a 500HP 406" SB built... and A.C. pulled me aside and we started talking LS engines... shortly after that I started the LS engine build with him. I was looking to go one up on my cousin with a little more cubic inch and HP, Lol.

What kind of Pontiac do you have?