At first I was kind of annoyed when they'd black flag me --- call me in --- ask me why I wobbled in turn such and such... and I'm thinking -- DUDE! Really? It was an epic save...

Now I realize -- they want you to have fun -- and you should only be hitting 9/10th's and not have to do any "epic saves"... Some times I'm a slow learner but I get it now.

thunderhill
 

When I first started tracking I came up on
a slower guy that decided he did not want
me to pass ... there were only a few passing
Zones as I was not in the Blue group yet and
I was all over this guy for a couple of laps before
barely getting by... they later pulled him off the
track for a while.. I realized that his stupidity was
causing my stupidity... I should have pulled into the
hot pits and gave them I want more room sign
and went back out.. lucky I did not wad my car up
or hurt him, myself or someone else

I love clear track but as you keep doing it you
find someone you can trust and dice back and
forth without any issues.. My Viper buddy and
also one of my Pantera buddies can go lap by lap
and side by side but we know each others driving
this is the fun stuff where no one cares who is faster:catfight:

Panteracer Norcal Bob

Wise words those. It can't be stated often enough that it isn't racing and nobody wins a track day.

....you can certainly lose though.

Gosh, does this mean I need bumpers and brakes?

Nope, just car control and common sense. :D

Thunderhill
 

If you really want to race your car there is a small
group that is running at Thunderhill this Monday
Checkered flag... they do not want beginners.
They have not had any contact or issues for years
so again safety is their Moto also.
They have three run groups, b novice, a seasoned
and the Race group.. To get to the Race group you
have to run with them for a while and if you want to
move up they will review and if ok will give you a license
All classes run together.. points thing etc.. Porsches, Lambos,
Massaretti, Vettes and misc

Group was started by a few Pantera owners way back
They don't even have Panteras any more but welcome us
Great people... small run groups

Head guy told me that many of the guys who run in B group
could actually run in the race group or A but they are happy
to run in B group.. Again it is about having fun and hanging
out as Greg W. says

A bunch of Pantera guys are going to run at Thunderhill
on the 5 mile track this October

Good times

Panteracer Norcal Bob

LET'S ROLL! :cheering:

Visited the shop yesterday. Upper shock mounts are tacked in. Still need to complete the welding on those. Sheet metal fill in is cut for fuel cell, just needs to be welded in, fuel line needs to be run and vent installed. Wiring for dash is there but faceplate for dash/gauges needs fabricated, installed, and all connected. We'll be doing a Saturday thrash to try and make it up ther sunday. :gitrdun:

Bondo + tape + safety wire = ready! Maybe I meant chicken wire...

LOL. Hope I see you up ther Sunday. Love that Falcon.

Need a track day report fellas.

We all waited all day for you to come over!! WTF happened to ya??



Come over and say hi!

Hope everyone is having a good and safe time. There'd better be pics/video toute' sweet.

Soon as I have WiFi to upload to YouTube!

Awesome weekend, only way it could have been better was no sound black flags. Little Lotus got hit twice! If you heard it person you'd never believe it.:waveflag:

Had fun just bull$hitting with you guys Saturday. Thanks for the hospitality to me and my boys. They want to go again.

I'll let this tell the story of my running Thill - running the Cyclone not the bypass...


Remember this is an old 4 speed clunker running leaf springs -- on 245 X 16's R6's... small brakes (two piston front and single piston rear C4 stuff)...


Best time was actually a 2:08.36



When RON SUTTON started with me on Saturday -- I was running 2:20's and finished Saturday with 2:13's -- started Sunday with 2:13's and ended with the below times. HE'S MORE THAN AMAZING!!! Just holy wow..

Like I said to him --- he shoulda billed me after Sunday afternoon 'cause I'd have paid him TWICE what he charged. LOL




http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/a...r/IMG_5520.jpg

12 seconds in two days. That all you got? :D

Great job Greg! :cheers:

I wonder how much Ron would charge to come out to KC for a Sunday afternoon... :D I could've used him on site yesterday.

Great work Greg, nice pickup on times. Did it feel better too as it got faster?

So Greg, were the adjustments made to the car or the loose nut behind the wheel?

What changes did you make over the course of the weekend?

Numerous change were made to the loose wheel nut, problem was that split washers, star washers, Loctite, and safety wire would not retain that dang nut. We should have tried Silly putty.

Met Ron for the first time at the track. Very nice guy that seems to really enjoy helping others gather the skills and data needed to go faster. Weld was bitching about the car not handling right. Ron digs out his durometer and shows Greg a tire that is hard as a rock. They change tires and Weld is happy again. Anybody wanting to advance in race car knowledge should be able to learn something from Ron. I really enjoyed the fact that Greg was bugging Ron all weekend instead of me.

You don't go faster, unless it feels better......



If that makes sense. Does to me.








Even though the set on the car was "relatively new" - one had a durometer reading that said it was "hard". I had gone out for a session and came in (first session) and we discussed (after Ron measured things 10 ways to Sunday).... the handling. When I FINALLY shut up -- Ron said -- The right front was causing the exact issue I was describing... and the choice was to replace that tire.... I replaced them all. Next session the issue I had described went away... and when I came in I was asked if the car was locking up the rear brakes anywhere.... "why yes! as a matter of fact they do".... He says --- The rotors are telling me you have too much rear bias. Out it came with a couple turns.... and BINGO my lockup issue went away.

THEN HE STARTED TO WORK ON THE NUTS BEHIND THE WHEEL.


So first we worked on getting tire pressures and brakes right.... and between sessions we got schooled on things to think about etc. As the car became consistent - and I gained confidence that it would drive the same way it did the last session... and the tire pressures were up to maximum contact patch (and heat)... Then the nut could begin to use less brake - drive deeper - and explore different turn in points.


It was the best money I've ever spent "on the car". Not only that - unlike Charley - he is fun to hang with.

I will also say that --- Charley's Mustang has 70 or so less HP.... and runs rear drum brakes... and I can not keep up with him.

THAT MAKES TOTAL SENSE

Well thanx to this event, i'm no longer a track virgin.

Took the school on Saturday, my instructor.....well lets just say "i got THEE guy".

More to follow when i get home. I ran seven sessions and i am pooped.

All I can really say for now is , WOW, Hooked.

Spent time with Greg, Sieg, Charlie, Dave, Ron, Mike and G. Great guys, great time. They are dealers of the cardope and i am hooked.....

It usually takes only one hit on the "Go-Fast Crackpipe"

Word! I hadn't had a track fix in 2 or 3 years an it sure felt good!

Class was in session

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/f...psaae3dhjo.jpg

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/f...psvlzxt65r.jpg

Sieg with a Laguna-esque exhaust mod to try to keep the sound Gods happy

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/f...psokmgfmgu.jpg

But that worked only for a short time

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/f...psi5w1rz9v.jpg

This guy shows up at 1pm on Sunday... apparently did not read the schedule correctly

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/f...pszzd81ooo.jpg

Street cars... even of the 2008 ULTIMATE variety... were present

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/f...psmlh5zets.jpg

Weld fell off the wagon he was so much faster by the end of the weekend

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/f...pse2cfq3cv.jpg

Great stuff guys! I would love to have Sutton take a dozen seconds off my lap time. Hope I can make it to the next one!!

Thunderhill
 

Glad you guys had a good day
Things are good when the car doesn't
break or get bent up and ends up faster in
the end... your head is better when things
go right.. sometimes rare days

We use to rotate the front right tire out
at Thunderhill as it gets a lot of heat and wear
Maybe too many heat cycles that made it hard
I assume you have them heat cycled when you
buy them?? they do last longer

It seems like if the tires are more than a year old
then they seem like stones to me.. I laugh at guys
that keep slicks or Dot road race tires for years
waiting to go to the track... might as well throw
them in the garbage.. safety is also a concern with
old tires

I should have come up and hung out with you guys
My weekend went in a garbage can as my Firebird was
hit in the parking lot.. not too bad.. bent bumper and rear
tail piece that is fiberglass.. was thinking about painting
the tail piece black.. now that it will be off easy to do.. also was thinking
about changing the bumper to fiberglass. rethinking that idea
as when looking for parts the metal back piece is no longer
made and the bumper saved it.. too much thinking sometimes

Panteracer Norcal Bob

Damn, sorry I missed it. Hurst DL sent the wrong flywheel. No tranny - no go.

Are you guys planning on doing either the SCCA event in July or the Shelby club event in August at Sonoma?

Some of the little blue car
http://i1170.photobucket.com/albums/...CBC353E3E5.jpg

http://i1170.photobucket.com/albums/...39D57CD086.jpg

Had a great time. New friends, new faces, new "habit"....

What did Gae run?

They wouldn't let me run because I missed the drivers meeting in the morning.

I knew when I left Vinces shop that they weren't going to let me run but I wasn't going to miss an opportunity to hang out with the gang.

Had a great time guys. Hope we can do it again soon. :thumbsup:

So how did it go? who's posting times? who ran what?

There weren't any fast times because saac doesn't let you pass in the turns. Even in the fast/green group there some very slow cars so it was impossible to get a clean lap with the no passing in turns rule (at least that was the case on saturday). I've never been to a track day where you couldn't pass in the turns in the advanced group.

The no passing in turns was actually much more dangerous I thought because we would be doing 150+ mph into turn one and we'd come up on a guy doing 70mph or less. Instead of going around him which would easy, you'd have to try to get slowed down like crazy on corner entry or mid corner.

It made sense though because there are some real shelby's there that don't want incidental contact but they should tell you on the webpage that there is no passing in corners or at least make the run group faster. I clocked some guys turning 2:40+ laps in the fast group. That is almost 1 minute slower per lap than we were running with NCRC on Friday. We packed up and headed home because it was so dangerous with that much disparity in speed.

Plus a guy in front of me got black flagged and he actually came to a stop on the middle of the race track!!! Who does that?? That was in the fast group. Maybe he was color blind and thought it was red!! Ha!!

Hopefully you guys go back out with another norcal group because we left before we got a chance to hang out.

You must have one hell of a car to be hitting 150 going into turn 1.... because none of my stuff will hit that. The Mustang is WOT at the top of 4th gear and I might be seeing 125.... the Lotus which is far faster - is at the middle of 5th gear and is speed limited to 155MPH at the top of 6th... It's never gotten into 6th gear on that track.

Just sayin'

Not sure what group you ran in... but I think the NorCal Shelby events are some of the best run events I've been to... and they don't allow passing in corners for a great reason -- it keeps people from wading up their cars when some moron thinks he's a hot shoe and loses it trying to take the inside away from you.

Not sure where you get the 1:40 lap times from either... passing in the corners or not. Maybe you were timing a 250cc Shifter cart?

Greg, what is the horsepower and weight of your two cars? We see over 125mph going into turn 1 in spec miata and it only has 119 horsepower.

At the event, we had a C6 z06 that has over 600 rwhp, coilovers, brakes, etc. The fastest lap we ran on Friday was a 1:55. Top speed at the end of the start/finish strait was 153 mph.

There was a Stohl on Friday turning low 1:40's that would take turn one flat out!! It was pretty cool because it was driven by a 67 year old kickass lady.

There were also "crappy" cars there on Friday that couldn't turn a 2:20 with Michael Schumacher driving! !

Not being to pass in a turn is more dangerous in my opinion than point by. It all depends on experience level but I've seen a track day that didn't allow open passing or at least point by in the turns in the advanced group.

I must say it was well organized and definitely an event that is well run. It just isn't an event that a "fast" Lap time would be had at.

Blue group is for the expert drivers with fast cars.There was no blue group on Saturday because of the large attendance. On Sunday they added the blue group for the fast guys. Plenty of space and time on Sunday to shoot for a fast lap.

The '65 Mustang is a 590hp (dyno'd) Tony Oddo motor'd - Jerico 4 speed - Hoosier'd - 3015 pound car


The Lotus 2 Eleven is 1470 pounds - single center seat conversion - 6 speed - blown Toyota 252 HP


The SCCA TRACK RECORD is a 1:35 set in qualifying -- very different than actually racing (set in a Stohr) - RACING is a 1:37.6

This is running the Cyclone (5 and 5a) -- take the Cyclone away and I think that is good for about 2 seconds faster IIRC


http://www.stohr.com


Your lady is smoking fast!


By comparison the racing lap record in GT2 - is a 1999 Corvette - with a 1:52.255


The SCCA track records for cars (similar) to what is being driven at NorCal Shelby events --- a mix of old and new Mustangs... with Corvettes etc.... are all right around 2:01/2:02's


I've passed any and all Miata's Spec or otherwise including the one driven this weekend that is was being driven by a professional race car driver.... and I passed him out of turn 15 in my Lotus and was half the straight in front of him by turn 1.


I'm not arguing -- and not trying to be a bonehead nor do I think you are being... but lots of people read these threads and posts - many that may be going to their first track event to give it a try - and I'm just trying to be factual (again not saying that you are not being factual) but my perspective is the opposite of yours with the passing zones. I'm happy that I can turn in with confidence that nobody is on my quarter. I'm more than happy to roll to the side and lift completely off the pedal and point the faster cars by at the first opportunity. The quicker they fly by the faster I can get back into it and attempt to follow their line.


The ZR1's and some ZO6's are on track with us and they make us look like we are standing on the brake with an anchor tied to our axles.... I'm sure they're hitting 150 down into turn 1.... I make no attempt to even try to follow them. I tried that once in the Lotus out of turn 8 and ended up doing a tank slapper before turn 9. LOL