Nitrorocket,

I have 4l80e in my 37 ford with a 710 bbc.And it live's.I've made acouple 9's passes with and and have had it to 165 mph,(playin with a zo6)with no problem.plus I tend to punish the hell out of it.

Your TT ls1 doesn't doesn't make anymore hp than my 710 (1050hp),without nos,so if you have a 4l80e in there I wouldn't change it yet,I don't think a GV overdrive is that strong.

Who built your trans???

I'm surprised they haven't pushed the tire out closer to the fender opening. Maybe they just haven't mounted the actual running gear yet.

That big sail at the trailing edge of the front fender looks like it might be a problem.

That thing still makes me tingle where I pee.

I believe the big sail thing is the "wicker" he keeps on talking about, and apparantely is a big deal not a problem

yep that is one of the wickers.

Also that is the location of the wheels.

I will also try to get some pictures of the Viper that Dave was working on for the Salt Flats with similar Wickers on the fenders and rear of the car. There goal was to go over 200mph but they blew up the engine on the Dyno the wick before.

PS - they put over 500lbs of lead weight in the front of the viper just to make sure it stayed on the ground.

Actually, the wicker is on the leading edge of the fender opening. I was talking about the surface at the trailing edge, essentially the inside of the wheelhouse that looks like it is presented to the airflow. Might just be the angle of the photo.

Jack Trepanier, right?
If so, damn, they've made a ton of changes to that car.

http://www.lateral-g.org/events/semashow2005/139.jpg

angle of the photograph

I was talking about the addition of the the nose and what appears to be sectioning of the fenders toward the leading edge of the hood.

Bill, I think he was replying to my ponderings regarding the front wheel well opening.




That thing is so bitchin!

I'm sitting here wondering what I could stuff an Eco-tec into.

Nitro, that car would be a good one to check out "aero-wise" to get a general idea of what's required, as I believe they are shooting 200 as well. There are a few pics on the homepage.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/mul...content.3.html


I just couldn't resist. But seriously, Nitro, you keep acting like you just need a rear anti-roll bar and some suspension work to get you there. Did you watch the 200 mph Mustang videos? Take note of just how fast everything is going by and how much steering correction is required in a vehicle specifically built for that kind of speed. The best brakes in the world won't save you if you get out of shape at that speed. If you follow NASCAR at all, the 'new guy' David Gilliland, who's been racing for years, needs to be cleared to race at Talladega, as do Indy rookies. That type of speed is serious business.

Ryan

I have to start somewhere..... and I would think making a suspension that would be up to the task would be the first step in stability, correct?? That is why I am currently asking and talking about suspension. Then with experimentation I can figure out what type of aero mods may help any instability at a given speed I am trying to reach.

Okay i'll jump in and set up a game plan kinda, maybe we can add to this list as what people think and know you will need to blast your way to 200mph. It will be your decesion to add what you want and feel comfortable doing. I think i remember reading that you didn't want a cage. That would be your call but if you learn and know what is required it may help you with your build.

PS -- Even if you don't plan to put a cage in the car build it like you were going to just in case you change your mind down the road.

Step One - Chassis Modifications
1. Frame Bracing
2. Place to hang weight on the nose (seems to be on all of them)


Step Two - Front Susp Mods
1. Upgrade Control Arms (stock are flimsy at best)
2. Adjustable type shocks
3.

Step Three - Rear Susp Mods
1.

Step Four - Roll Cage & Saftey Mods
1.

Step Five - Interior Mods
1.

Step Six - Aerodynamic Mods
1.

You get my idea's - maybe someone with much more knowledge then me can help you out. I know there are many books on building land speed cars that you can use for reference. Maybe you can find some and update some of us on what they reccomend or require.

What sucks is the only real way to know what changes are affecting what is to have some type of wind tunnel.

My testing would have to be at Road America down the straight. My buddies who race sport bikes are hitting about 165-170 down the straight. My car accelerates much faster then there bikes do (RC51 & R6) so I should be able to dable at least up to 180-190 there when I am setup and ready to start trial and error testing eventually.

You know I've seen this before; this type of argument. The poster asks a very loaded question but thinks it is simple, then as people try to inform him of how serious it is, and in the process go overboard a little. Then the original poster gets a little defensive and starts losing grip on what he is talking about and digs himself a bigger ditch.

The truth lays in the middle. NO you are not going to hit 200mph in that chevelle of yours, its that simple, you obviously don't have the budget or knowledge "yet" to do it. But you could definetly improve what you have and set a goal higher than your already acheived 150. While everyone wants to jump on the bandwagon and knock down your efforts, I have only seen 1 person here who really has any first hand knowledge of what it takes, although I am not discrediting a lot of the good info from the bench racers, as a lot of it is relevant also

The key here is to take it one step at a time, like all the good info that you have recieved, 200 is much different than 150. So let down your defenses, come back to planet earth, and set some realistic goals for yourself, and do take everyones advice and really think about the safetly equipment. A rollcage is minimum, along with some racing seats and harnesses, and a safety cut off switch.

And even though we know we all push it on the street, just keep it to yourself about your 150mph on ramp blasts. Of course everyone is a hipocrit and does similar things themselves(or maybe they don't, but I know I have) but its common sense not to announce it to the world, as if it is the thing to do.

Fastest I have ever done was on my bike 140 on the freeway, and that is a corrected speed, most bike speeods read high, but mine is corrected. I do not plan to ever push it on the street like that again, all that was running through my head was "what if". I have done 125 down the straight away at thunderhill and had to brake to about 75 to take turn 1 which is scary as hell, but the fast guys do about 150 down the straight and probably cary about 90 into turn 1 :willy:

So do your mild suspension upgrades and see where that gets you, and take it one step at a time. This is the key in any racing, NO ONE jumps in head first and shoots for the highest goal. So maybe your next question should be more along the lines, of how to get your car faster, smoother, and more stable, not a MPH goal.

your buddies "could" be full of it, as I said, sportbikes speedometers from the factory are about off my %5-10, plus most race bikes are re-geared which makes the speedo even way farther off. Plus almost anyone who carries that kind of speed at the track is going to very good, and the very good riders don't have speedos or they tape them up, and most of them don't even look down to see how fast they are going. So judging how fast "you think" your car will go based on what they are telling you is not realistic. You really need to get on the track and see how fast maybe 160-170 really is. And the thing about it, is you don't get a second chance if something goes wrong at those speeds, and most likely your 35 year old car has some things wrong with it :thumbsup:

What type frame bracing can you do to a Chevelle fram besides a cage, I have wanted to install some type of roll bar/cage but I have been a little to busy, with all the hours I work and my family, I nedd to find time to bend one up and weld one in, just have not decided how crazy I want to go. This upcoming winter I was planning on putting a rack in the car as well as make some front control arms. The rear is all tubular adjustable uppers and lowers with Hiem joints, is feels real solid and precise in the rear while driving.

It's been a long time since i've been under a chevelle. You can look at the bracing and boxing we did on my project to stiffen up the chast to prevent it from twisting.

As far as a cage is concerned that is something that you are going to need to look at a rule book and build it to the requirements. I have a picture of a 24 point cage that was installed in a lotus (yep a lotus) to meet the rules at the salt flats. It was one of the most insane cages i have ever seen. There were bars everywhere and to everypoint you could think of.

Personally i would start with a good 12 point cage which would allow you to run your car at the Grove which would allow you to really see what your car would do.

PS - I have a ticket from my younger years 156mph in a 72 Cutlass Convert. Looking back it was pretty dumb but that is the fastest i have ever gone and i was young back then and didn't have kids oh yea and a wife.

Honestly, step four really ought to be step one.

I could not read all the way to the end but I like to remind you guys that Big Red was crashed with the stock chassis. Then they went to custom chassis to do the 220

Step One. Get a ski mask and hit the bank, to make your Chevelle race at 200 mph, you'll need a few stacks of hundreds!!

:rofl: :rofl: Stuart, you owe me a keyboard. This one is full of diet coke now. :rofl: :rofl:

BTW, if you have time when you are at the bank grab some for me too!

http://www.radrides.com/images/Cuda2M.jpg This was yesterday at Bonneville. Ran 236 on its trial run and set the short track record for its class. This is the only safe way to go 200+ mph IMO.

Mike

Something kind of neat... This car goes 0-200 mph in 1 mile from a dead stop!

We have the same motor setup, but I am pushing about 50-75 more hp then him at the time of this video so I definetly know I have the power at least :D , I wonder what the drag difference is between our cars??

His car also does 150 mph in the quarter mile, It is amazing how it took 3/4 of a mile more jsut for 50 mph! That last 50 is sure a big difference!

It did this just as it sits in this picture. I need to put a camaro front clip on my car! :D

http://www.ls1speed.com/movies/intmd8_199.wmv

Yep, cool car. The next 50 mph is a big difference. That car is much better than yours aero-wise. Also much smaller grill area. I think they go 160+ with a stock 325 hp small block. Very good car to start with for higher speeds.

Jody

I can't believe that car goes 200 mph, really.

That car sure didn't look like it was going close to 199mph. The other videos that XV showed looked like it was going that fast, this did not. Maybe I'm wrong.

Camaro Cd - .34, frontal area - 21.6sq'
Chevelle Cd - .423, frontal area - 25.5sq'

Difference - HUGE

Now, take those numbers and work the math in the links I provided previously.

+1, could be wrong but that sure didn't look like 200 to me, but considering I've never gone that fast I sure could be wrong

Yeah that looks to be a far cry slower then these.

Video 1

Video 2

Video 3

You don't need a wind tunnel to figure out what to do.

A typical road course will not be a good place to test.
Your car better be set up right if you plan on going anywhere near that fast on a road course as the demands are completely different than for a high speed run. If you haven't been on a road course, the last thing you want there will be an overpowered car. 1,000 HP will not be useable on a road course. Also, you're cooling problems will be even more pronounced, you will need cooling ducts for your brakes there and more.

Best place to test and work things out is the Open Road Races. They won't let you run over 160 as a newbie anyway, so you're looking at multiple races for many reasons.

People don't realize the requirements for each of these are very different:

- A typical road course
- Open road racing (in the Unlimited Division)
- Bonneville/Maxton high speed runs over short distance

John Buscema
XV Motorsports
www.xvmotorsports.com

Putting weight in the front end just means the aero is not sorted out. Maybe within the rules of their class they cannot sort it out? I've raced against 205-210 MPH Vipers, but they ran different front ends that were designed to create downforce.

The term wickers I always thought was for strips added to the trailing edge of wings used for fine tuning, also known as 'Gurney Flaps'. On the Cuda, my guess is those pieces are doing more for eliminating underhood pressure (which creates lift) than creating downforce directly. From the picture, it doesn't look like they did much to manage the internal aerodynamics of the car - meaning managing the airflow that comes into the engine compartment and getting it back out. Can't tell from the one pic.

That may be why they needed the add-ons to the fenders.

If a car has lot's of lift on the front, a splitter is one of the few free lunches in creating downforce at the front end of a car and it is tuneable. It's also quite common to see designs that manage the airflow at the front end that use curved surfaces on the inlet side - which is basically a mini inverted wing surface - to accelerate the airflow and create downforce. That isn't easily tuneable, but could be calculated.

It's been a while since I looked at an SCTA rule book, but I do remember there were quite a few things they didn't allow, such as body mounted wings. They may be working within the constraints of the rules.

John Buscema
XV Motorsports
www.xvmotorsports.com

When I start road racing, I wil most likely lower the power to only 5 or 600 hp to allow me to get used to what I might encounter. I can always turn the power back up to what I need if I need more.

Talking with the guy in the Red Camaro, he made it sound like 200 was nothing and it drove rock solid with no instability whatsoever!!

He runs a 6 speed trans with a twin turbo LS1. He said the car would have gone more MPH but the gearing was way off, he went through the 1 mile mark at 7000 rpm in 5th gear and he makes peak power at 6100 rpm. I though that was funny because that is where I make peak power also!

His car may not seem like it wa going so fast because how quick the car is. A 9 second car accelerates pretty quick! Alot of cars might take 2 miles to get that speed.

It made me a little more optimistic seeing a another car make it look so easy, now at least I have some hope! :)

Here's a simplified formula I used to get rough numbers of HP requirements. Works best with real numbers for HP and Top speed and back into the CD and FA, then solve for HP requirements for any given speed. Meaning, if you top end the car, and have real dyno numbers, you can get a combined value for CD and FA for your exact car. Just takes some simple reworking of the formula.

HP = (CD * FA * V^3) / 150,000

If you have your top speed and HP then: CD * FA = (HP * 150,000) / V^3

With the numbers above to go 200 MPH w/ each requires:

391.68 = (.34 * 21.6 * 200^3) / 150,000
575.28 = (.423 * 25.5 * 200^3) / 150,000

This is a simplified formula and doesn't allow for rolling resistance and is probably more indicative of RWHP than at the crank.

If I were tackling the speed aspect, I'd start by trying to reduce the drag and frontal area. Dropping the car helps on the latter. Lots of ways to work on the former.

Contrary to what some of you are saying, I don't see any reason that car couldn't be made to run that fast reliably and with stability. That doesn't mean just anyone could do it - reliably and safely. It also doesn't mean it would be easy.

John Buscema
XV Motorsports
www.xvmotorsports.com

And he drove at that speed for how long, over what kind of road conditions, carried it through what kind of turns? Hitting it in a straight line and then just lifting is not a good proxy for stability. Unless the car is being built for a 1 mile run and that's it.

Not sure what you are trying to do - Maxton or Open Road Race.

Totally different animals.

John Buscema
XV Motorsports
www.xvmotorsports.com

I would like to road race, but not at 200 mph, just whatever the car and I am comfortable with. I also would like to hit 200 just to accomplish that. I am sure like he did, it will not be too hard. I am guessing from all the info that I have recieved, My car will be more comfortable at road racing at speeds of around 150 mph or so. Only time will tell I guess? :(

I am excited from all the ideas!

I guy up here that does them in his basement,for alittle extra cash,his a retired guy thats in no hurry.

But a Hughes or tranmission center have some bulletproof 4l80e.

The car looks fun to drive the way it is. Don't try and make some aerodynamic missle out of it. Have fun racing it the way it is. Final Answer.

hey down in new zealand our land speed record was set by a porsche at 348kperhr the reported cost of the car was close to a million kiwi dollars after it crashed at 350ks an hour not much the crash was on tv the dude died twice on the way to hospital he living now though .