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Do you have any wing pictures Greg. Ron is holding out on us.
Sweet rack by the way. Ron Will the wing be a top mount or traditional bottom mount? Will the uprights be rearward of the rear bumper or come up through the rear deck lid? For the three link are you using the shock style decoupled setup like Payton went to or the std kit PK started with? Will the rear link be adjustable from the drivers seat? |
What front spindles are you using? It is coming along nicely!
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We have a name for people like you...... it begins with "ASK" and ends with "HOLE"....... LOL Hey -- you're my competition! You don't expect us to spill our guts on every secret do you?? Oh! I think PICTURES work better in your case anyway you little crayon eater.... Attachment 65129 |
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GW, So you are running the Stang against his Torino? :peepwall: I had to get in on the fun, lol |
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Does he have a Torino?? Oh wait!! Yeah -- I remember now..... But I don't think that's a race car. I think it's a metallurgical study for corrosion and the speed at which iron oxide forms. |
OMG, i'm in tears :lol:
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Ron - another question about the structure, this time the cage.
Based on pics of other builds it seems typically people use 1 piece front pillars that extend from either the main rear hoop or the roof hoop to the floor. In this build the front pillar is a short piece attaching the roof hoop and dash bar. I also notice the dash bar isn't bent but instead welded together. Without having any real knowledge of what works best I always assumed it was better to bend the steel rather than weld it together. This build seems to prove my assumptions wrong and in general this looks a bit easier than bending in tight spots. Is there any difference or benefit in strength when bending vs welding a joint? Attachment 65136 Attachment 65137 Attachment 65138 |
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I have your answer ------ I'm not crashing the car so it doesn't matter. |
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Sounds complicated Vince
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I developed my GT spindles over the course of the last few years. Each set was custom for a couple years. Now that we've landed on dimensions we can make optimum with all of our clips & any ride height ... we now mass produce them & the cost came way down, from $2000 before to $799 now. You can see the Ron Sutton Race Technology GT Spindles & Hubs HERE. We also offer them in rear steer, named GTR Spindles. The first set went on Greg's 65 Mustang. Since then, we've refined them to work on Fords & GM cars. |
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Hey Steve !
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What Vince said in a complicated way is correct. Quote:
A. We do not want to butt weld 2 pieces of tubing together with no support. That would not be as strong as a bend. B. But if we bring multiple tubes together ... triangulated them ... & weld them, that is stronger than a bend. Looking at the photo below, if the red tube simply bent into the the tube in blue, and the tube circled green butted into this bent tube ... it would not be as strong as joining all three with welding. The strength difference is not monsterous, but in the 15%-25% range. Some bonuses of doing it this way is we can offset the A-pillar tube (red) to better fit the car & keep the firewall bar (green) higher than we could with a bent tube. And lastly, just as Vince was stating, a bent tube is not nearly as strong as a straight tube. For example, when we make watt's link tubes straight (normal) we can run the 7/8" OD tube with .065" to .095" wall thickness & never have any issue. With our GT Watt's link, the lower passenger side tube is stepped. Meaning it is bent back & then bent again to be parallel. (See HERE). Those stepped tubes need to be .156" to .220" wall ... or they'll bend ... right where we "pre-bent" them. Same with roll cages. Where you have a bend ... needs to be braced ... or that is your weak link. See how we brace them in the 2nd photo below. (Purple Circles) Make sense? :cheers: |
Way higher and tighter then I thought it would be, can't imagine how many times the body has been on and off. Looks more refined then your usual glass race car, awesome work Ron.
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Car Year & Model: 70 Ford Mustang Fastback
Competing in: NASA TTU & Track Days Front Clip/Suspension: GT Track-Warrior Rear Clip/Suspension: GT Track-Warrior Engine: Track-Warrior 3 LS7 700 HP Trans: Sequential Shift T56 6-Speed Brakes: StopTech 14” ST60/ST40 Owner: Greg Weld Builder: Randy Chastain – One Off Customs A lot of people have been asking about the aero. We're 6 weeks away from putting the body on & doing the aero, but I figured I'd give everyone a sneak peek at our high downforce dual element wing. Custom designed for Ron Sutton Race Technology by top folks in the IMSA aero field. If you take notice, you'll see the dip in the wing is DEEP. This is how we make serious downforce, but it does create more drag. On a super speedway oval, low drag win. On a road course, high downforce wins. This wing intentionally is medium drag & high downforce. It will eat up 30-60 HP on the straights, depending on the speed. But the downforce when cornering will be nothing short of MEAN. Pairing this with our optimized nose design, big splitter, mean front air dam, side splitters, full smooth belly pan underneath & highly functional diffuser in the rear will create downforce upward of 2/3 of the car's weight. With this Track-Warrior build happening from start to finish in only 4 months, you will be able to see everything in a pretty short timeline. http://www.pro-touring.com/attachmen...2&d=1522680223 :cheers: |
now its getting very interesting! love seeing all the parts come together.
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Looking good Ron!
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That's a nice teaser Ron. I can't wait wait to see the aero all come together over the next six weeks.
Will the wing be a traditional bottom mount or a top mount. |
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You've seen the body shell & where I had the factory kick up removed from the deck lid & flattened out for smoother air flow back there. It's all about the wing. :) The dual element wing & mounts (upright & forward struts) in the blueprint are exactly how the wing mounts. :cheers: |
Weld Sutton Mustang
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Ron,
I always wondered how much the ends effect the wing? I see some with a lot above the wing and others with most of the end below the wing... I guess if you look at the F1 cars now they are adding louvers etc in the ends I have changed the ends on my Pantera several times but mostly for looks or holding a number Bob |
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Hey Bob, good question. The end plates on wings play a HUGE role in grip. The actually do two key things. First ... they ensure the airflow over the wing ... out near the ends ... doesn't simply roll over the sides. If the airflow did ... the downforce on the wing would be 20-25% less. Second, the end plates create "side force". This is not talked about much in "car guy" circles. But side force is a big goal & part of the conversation in racing. Depending on the size of the end plates ... we can generate anywhere from 60# or 300# & more of side force at the rear of the car. This helps the car have more grip on corner entry, so we can drive the car in deeper, faster & brake later ... making us quicker of course. But sideforce doesn't add tire grip in the traditional sense like downforce does by loading the tires. Side force is creating a resistance to the back of the car coming around (getting loose). Most of us understand g-forces from cornering speeds are pushing the car towards the outside of the corner. Side force is simply airflow pushing back ... on the wing sideplates. This gives us more rear grip ... but by reducing the g-force push with side force push back. This is why all racing sanctioning bodies that allow wings ... control the size of the end plates ... as much as the size of the wing itself. |
More photos with update on the Track-Warrior roll cage structure ... and first glimpse of the backbone structure we use in our GT & TA Track-Warriors.
http://www.pro-touring.com/attachmen...1&d=1522939413 http://www.pro-touring.com/attachmen...2&d=1522939438 http://www.pro-touring.com/attachmen...3&d=1522939477 http://www.pro-touring.com/attachmen...4&d=1522939571 http://www.pro-touring.com/attachmen...5&d=1522939604 http://www.pro-touring.com/attachmen...6&d=1522939625 We now offer a tool we call the Scholl Fixture, named after Craig Scholl that gave us the idea when he created his own. In these photos, you can see how we use it to place the slant top boss that welds top the roll cage bars. This insures the boss, and the jack screw that threads into it, is parallel with the shock at ride height. The tool is adjustable in height for any shock height we use. The rubber donut on it is 3.5" OD ... the same as the OD of coil over springs ... so we can check for & maximize clearance before we weld it in. While we have these tools for sale in our Catalog HERE ... we "loan" these to our clients that buy Track-Warrior clips to insure they weld the adjustable shock mounts in true. http://www.pro-touring.com/attachmen...7&d=1522939943 http://www.pro-touring.com/attachmen...8&d=1522939954 |
Such an awesome car!
Maybe I'll get to see it at Thunder Hill sometime. |
Weld Sutton Track car
Ron,
Just noticing in the pictures that the anchor points for the upper and actually lower a-arms are slotted. There seems to be a labeled washer or insert that you can move the a-arm anchoring points up or down in the slot. I assume this is a piece that holds the anchoring bolt to a certain height... are there different height inserts or are you just sliding the anchor bolt up and down?? I ask this because someone else doing a second gen was moving his lower anchor points up or down based on info you gave him by welding a washer in at a certain height... seems like the race cars with slotted anchor points let you adjust this with the slot or inserts.. kinda of a trick thing if I am thinking right Bob |
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Great question Bob! On our Track-Warrior front clips ... all 4 versions ... the LCA & UCA brackets have slots for our slugs. When I designed each of these front suspensions, I made them so we can build them "semi-custom" for each customer, with different ride heights, frame widths, etc. I placed the slots in a location that allows me use precision slugs to optimize each semi-custom front frame & suspension. The precision slugs are on page 188 of our catalog HERE. We have "0" slugs to put the LCA or UCA pivot in the center, and then offset slugs every 1/16" ... up to .250". This allows me to dial in the exact roll center, camber gain, anti-dive, etc I want on each front suspension. When we're correcting the geometry in a factory frame or front clip, I don't use the slugs. It is so hard to get them right ... when we make changes ... I don't want the lower pivots to be adjusted or moved after I've nailed down where they go. So in these cases, I prefer & recommend we simply weld thick, hardened washers to the outsides of the LCA buckets ... in the correct location ... and call it good. |
Weld Sutton Mustang
Thanks Ron
Now I am understanding some of the thought process Bob |
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Just sayin....
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Me = :lmao: The Lateral-G Gang :ohsnap: Mike Tolle Welding the Headers up Today = :welder: Rob Dickey = :popcorn2: Greg Weld = :thumbsup: Randy Chastain ... :whenitsdone: = :hapdance: All of us on June 28th at Thunderhill = :cheers: |
Weld, Sutton 70 bad-ass mustang
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Thought I would update some pics of the mustang, the backbone, trans mount and the header configuration on the pass side. Its TIGHT but Mike Tolle is doing an awesome job.[ATTACH]65414
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What’s going on here? I understand the mount for the lift cylinder, what is the lil doodad next to it?
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I would guess that's a raceway for fuel/brake line and wiring that is snaked inside the perimeter chassis
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Ron is on the right track. But we don't run wires or brake lines through it. We run the 2 #8 fuel lines (Supply & Return) as well as the #6 air line for the Air Jax. Running the fuel lines in the frame is simply better protection. We use 1-3/4" mandrel bent tubing at each end of the frame rail to curve the hoses up & in ... the way we want ... to make sure they stay away from dangerous stuff. The wiring is ran under the floor in a 1" open space between the bracing structure & the belly pan. The brake lines use special Stainless AN #3 bulkhead fittings to also route through the front dog legs & rear 2x3 crossmember ... and into the 1" open space between the bracing structure & the belly pan. |
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How are the lines secured inside the rail? :headscratch::sieg: |
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The hoses are secured at each end of the tubes. :cheers: |
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