Is it possible to explain the difference in how JJ is setting up the shocks to perform vs what Ron had done? JJ obviously knows his stuff, I'd like to hear what a shock expert says a shock should be doing for you on a track throughout a corner. I believe Ron stated he used shocks to "tie the car down" in corners to set the car for proper roll center .. is this not correct?

No expert here, but wouldn’t “tied down” imply a lot of rebound?

When a car has a "high travel" front suspension that has a lot of caster gain with compression, then the desire is to set and hold the compressed condition in order to get the benefits of both the improved dynamic camber when the wheels are turned (increased negative camber on the outside, increased positive camber on the inside tire) and to hold the roll center at the pre-established optimum dynamic value. In order to hold the compression, the shocks are valved to hold the nose down from braking just prior to turn-in to roughly the apex when you start to unwind the steering wheel and apply throttle. NASCAR used this early on with their soft spring/big bar set-ups, but when the minimum ride height rule was relaxed, they just went to setting the car at the compressed height (splitter almost on the ground) and let the shock bump stops hold the nose off the track. Cars with stiff spring rates, lots of body roll, limited front end travel, and/or that don't have geometry that adds a lot of caster with travel benefit less from shocks that pin the nose down.

Pappy

Good question Steve......


Here’s what I know for fact..... Relampagos and Cuthbertson (to name just two guys) scrapped the secret BS sauce for JJ’s set up and both go much faster now and like their cars better....

Other people I know in the biz have stated “we revalved 3/4’s of the Sutton spec’d shocks”.

So with that info — we took the JRi’s off and we’ll have a look at what the valving is.

Dirt Missle
 

Every time my buddies and I would get a new dirt bike
we pull the forks and shock and bring them to a local
guy that would revolve and tweak them. Answer a few questions
and he would do his magic work. I rarely would have to play
with any of the clickers. Not that easy with my cars
Maybe too many shocks to deal with

Bob

I have the shock dyno sheets for both the Sutton spec'd and Smitty spec'd valving now in my shocks. For me, it wasn't as much about taking rebound out as it was about adding compression. To my knowledge, Ron has never even ridden in a car on an autocross course and I now believe he really doesn't understand just how much force we put on these suspensions and how fast it happens.

Having rebound is good as you do need to tie the suspension down for a set amount of time, but more importantly for my case is compression as we need to slow down the way the front compresses so it doesn't slam at the bottom and shock the street tires causing loss of grip.

Ron used to tell me to soften front compression when I'd tell him it was pushing because he thought the front wasn't traveling enough, when in reality the push was from the suspension bottoming out and shocking the front tires.

Chris watched me run on course 1 time and immediately had me go full stiff on low and high speed compression on Ron's shocks and it helped tremendously. The shocks got sent back to Ridetech the next week for revalving.

Thanks Lance, that makes a lot of sense

Heads up!
 

So —- while I keep saying “the last of the Sutton Secret S****t” is gone....

THE SAGA CONTINUES!!


The JRi shocks were sent to JJ Furillo — for full dyno testing and examination - recommendations - rebuilding.....

Yes —- once again there was virtually NOTHING correct. Wrong gas pressure — wrong valving —— missing pieces —- both rears had completely different adjustments set.... WTF —- he pitched himself as “mister shock absorber” (my quotes).

After Jay running the car at LVMS —- he expressed a lack of confidence in the brakes... so after consultation with Stoptech —- their recommendation was about the complete opposite of “mister Stoptech brake man” (my quotes). The car had 30’s in front and 33’s rear —- Stoptech recommends 34’s Front and keep the 33’s in the rear....

PERHAPS THIS IS FINALLY THE LAST — but NO ——— the master cylinder bore may also have to be changed.... but we’ll wait until Jay runs the car with the Sutton spec on the 20th at LVMS.....

SO —- MY POINT??? MY point is — if you have ANYTHING THAT IS SUTTON SPEC — get a second or third opinion on what it is.....

Bought a used "sutton " aka Detroit speed sway bar off another member... glad it hasnt got any sauce on it

Sutton has nothing to do with Detroit Speed -- which I think you know -- but just so everyone reading is clear on that.