The 267's will be PWM'ed but perhaps on a separate controller. If I can get my hands on a Fore twin setup it's easy for me to test to see if all of them can be done on one controller. We're already doing twin and triple 267's returnless with a VaporWorx controller.

The CTS-V has a safety valve that limits line pressure to no more than 74psi, but it starts to bleed at 64-65psi. What can be done here is to put an inline check valve just after the CTS-V outlet (before it T's into the 267's but after the CTS-V pressure sensor). Once the 267's pressure increases to the point that the flow reverses to the CTS-V, it will shut. Once the downstream pressure reduces, the valve opens and the CTS-V comes online.

So, with the check valve, line pressure can increase (including manifold referenced.) Just be aware of the pump performance at the intended pressure, and if in doubt, have it flow tested.

One key function that the Fore setup has is the crossover connection. This "bleed" is needed for low fuel demand conditions, so don't plug it.

The difficult part of all this is the low-flow/idle/cruise requirement. We're talking systems that require up to 60a to drive at WOT, but not overheat the fuel during cruise/idle in a true returnless system. Considering that fuel pumps are typically in the 1/3 efficientcy range, that's a lot of heat to disipate unless the pumps are PWM controlled and staged.

When I get to that point, if it looks like I'll have issues with two CTS-V pumps, even with a BAP, I am willing to send the pump modules directly to you (even a CTS-V) so we can test flow and compatability to run on one controller.

The only issue I see here, is my second set of pumps (2-3 267's) will need to support the full fuel demands of the power. If a check valve shuts to stop the backflow through the CTS-V, then that pump is providing no benetif. If that's the case, why use the CTS-V pump in the first place if the 267's can be made to run PWM and support the power. Just a thought.

Good to know. That would definitely be priority for as mentioned concern about the pump performance above (267's providing all fueling at big power application)

How does that crossover connection ("bleed") help with low fuel demand? I haven't researched it much so asking for explanation on my ignorance.

This is the benefit of your controller correct? Allows the PWM usage on the pump and keep heat down in the fuel system.

Correct, the PWM function does:

1) Reduce heat. For most constant pressure systems it is typically a 50% reduction. Manifold referenced is usually around 66% reduction.

2) Electronic pressure regulation.

3) Returnless. No pressure regulator, return lines, etc.

4) Increase pump life.

Twin 267's on their own may be enough to feed your build, triple for sure, but there's no good way around the CTS-V pressure limitation if it to be added to the total fuel flow unless the pressure is under 65psi. The purpose of the single CTS-V is that since it has a reservoir to contain the fuel around the pumps and jet pumps to keep it full, it will allow for very low liquid level driving. The 267's would only come on when needed.

Some fuel needs to move through the pump during PWM. In traditional mechanical regulator setups the pump basically blasts past the regulator and the excess fuel returned to the tank. In this case, the column in front of the pump is compressible. For returnless, everything in front of the module outlet is essentially incompressible at no/low fuel demand since there is no return (mechanical regulator spring.) At very low fuel demand, especially at key on/low/idle, this means the pump is trying to push against an incompressible column. This causes the pump to chug. The fluid pressure downstream of the pump (pressure sensor) is low enough to allow PWM operation to start, but there is not enough volume for the pump to have smooth continious operation. Hence, pressure spikes, the PWM turns off, pressure drops, PWM on...... to the tune of about 10hz, all the while the pump is jumping like crazy. In the fuel module the jet pumps allow enough fuel to bypass for continious smooth operation. For twin 267's, the jet pump connection, which is also powered by high-pressure fuel, performs the same function.

The trick here is that the 267's are a different animal than the CTS-V, so different controller tuning is needed. "Tuning" may seem like a simple deal, but when dealing with these kinds of power levels while demanding smooth operation, it's boatloads of work. That's why testing a combination of CTS-V + 267's would be needed for validation.

Understood. Talking to m2k I think I'll run the two v pumps for now. See how they like boost and the power limitations. The. When the time comes, look at 2-3 267s and send those and v pump and controller to you for testing!

Ctsv pump seems maybe more suited for driving on a regular basis and have check valve and big pumps for big power. Can ramp pressure up on pump to offset boost pressure!

Manifold referenced can be done with any of the current VaporWorx controllers. The standard controller is tuned for 3bar, but tunes are available for other sensors (1, 2, 2.5, etc.) As a testament to just how good the ID injectors are, Mark is running 1200's at a static 65psi with good idle control.

Oh yea I know Injector Dynamics makes an awesome injector. Talked to Tony Palo and a tech at ID before swapping my 1300s out for 1700s!

They said idle may be a little tougher with the 1700 but what can you expect for an injector of that size!

I have made some progress on the turbo side of things and some more changes yet again.

Changes include:

• Intercooler Upgrade - Support more power as old ones were a little small...
• ID1700 to replace ID1300 - Support power on E85 if I decide to go that route. Went larger to assist with injector performance with lower fuel pressure (system capped at 65psi)
• Hood Change (planned) - Wanted to change up the look a bit.
• Hood pins instead of latch (planned) - Required for larger intercoolers. More I thought about it the less I trusted a makeshift hood latch. Rather be SURE the hood will stay shut!

Now onto the pics!
Car arrived at M2K and was put beside my friends build.
http://i.imgur.com/NXfmaRi.jpg

Last time you saw the car it needed a lot of turbo fab work and engine bay looked like this.
http://i.imgur.com/4yquxFt.jpg

Kevin got to work with the fabrication and managed to mount the turbos in a few hours.
http://i.imgur.com/Fr76OCP.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/aB9Idz3.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/h5BEYcW.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/SVSHZs2.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/PNWbLbB.jpg

There will be a panel infront of this sealing off the filter side from the engine bay. It will have a pass through with a big filter on the fender side and will have air fed from the grille.
http://i.imgur.com/l4Q7EMq.jpg

Mounting is complete and ready for more pieces to be installed.
http://i.imgur.com/HwmexZo.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/9PjQTGC.jpg

Waste gates were to be a tight fit given the location the turbos were placed with these headers.
http://i.imgur.com/BKhii9p.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/K39Z9h9.jpg

With some careful cutting of tubing to run the WG, we ended up with a nice symmetrical system that should allow for excellent control of the boost levels.
http://i.imgur.com/aggNrZz.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/Sg3J65w.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/5dIczNf.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/7fcKvH6.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/eC5iPYg.jpg

Not only that but the turbos are even side to side in engine bay placement.
http://i.imgur.com/QeyRDUe.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/SfUhNJi.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/I8mGmwg.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/M6119P8.jpg

Time to start downpipe and wastegate dumps.
http://i.imgur.com/7Ah2R0f.jpg

Beyond that we are still waiting on the RCI intake to arrive.
http://i.imgur.com/sk46bOA.jpg

I have a mock intake they're sending me that will arrive this week, and he updated me with picture of the intake runners from my intake. This started off as a 5in x 5in x 18in solid block of aluminum!
http://i.imgur.com/Jb8JZYk.jpg

After some further discussion with Kevin at M2K and the Gerhard at Bell intercoolers, we discovered the old setup was only efficient to about 850hp (flywheel). We upgraded those cores from 7x11x3" cores to 11x15x3.5" cores. These are capable of efficiently supporting 1250 hp (flywheel). M2K will be building the tanks for these today and integrating them to the mounting positions on my radiator.
http://i.imgur.com/opmmAPH.jpg

You are killing it with this build. One of my favorites.

Good to see things progressing!

This change required me to look at new latching for the hood as that was the restriction for the original intercooler sizing. I wasn't happy looking at making the typical style work that pro-touring guys use, which incorporates an early 90s VW latch system. So I decided to go with Aerocatch latches.
http://i.imgur.com/cR2LB1v.jpg

With this change I started kicking around the idea of changing out the hood to give the car a look to stand out a bit. I found a deal on an Anvil Carbon hood with bare underside (hybrid carbon / fiberglass construction).
http://i.imgur.com/O39T8Zr.jpg?1

http://i.imgur.com/XByrg4Q.jpg

It's a bare construction underneath so will be light and give a little more room for the intake. (Pictured is full carbon, mine will be fiberglass and painted satin black on the bottom side).
http://i.imgur.com/ebqWk2H.jpg?1

I am looking to add vents to this above the turbo to assist in letting that heat out and try to relieve pressure under the hood at high speed (keep the hood from pulling up). Pictured is the vents that will be used, but they will be relocated forward and outward to be directly above the turbos (the reason for the measurements earlier).
http://i.imgur.com/kqfPdGA.jpg

Let me know what you guys think and feel free to criticize where needed!

William