Yeah, I'm not driving it much. Plus I'm certain that the leak is on the header side of the gasket, not the head side.

I'm developing a plan for a fix, just need to nail down someone good with a tig welder and a machinist to clean the flanges back up after.

Well, it's not hot rodding if you don't have to love on some things...right?

Seems my continuing battle for space on this car while trying to cram 10 pounds of crap in a 5 pound bag continues.

I pulled the headers off yet again yesterday to investigate for a possible gasket fix and found no sign of a leak whatsoever...they were sealed up tight. After some reassembly, some discussions with the engine builder, and more investigation...I discovered I could feel a rod cap contacting the windage tray inside the new Canton oil pan once the oil pan started to take heat.

It clears and is quiet when started cold, but the more heat the pan takes, the worse the feel and the noise gets. This was not present during the dyno runs, our thoughts are the pan shifted sideways just a touch when the engine was sat on it for the ride home. We knew it was close and we thought this might be a possibility when we first discussed the noise, but the header leak seemed more likely so I spent a week chasing that angle. Had I just put my fingers on the pan instead of everything else under there beside the pan, I could have saved myself a lot of time and anguish.

The builder wants me to bring the car to him because he says he has a trick way of moving the pan over a touch and cinching it back down. Sure hope it works as option #2 is lifting the engine to remove the pan and modify it or use a thicker pan gasket.

I'm frustrated yet happy at the same time that the issue is now properly diagnosed and we can continue on with a proper fix.

I've got about 200 miles on it now and I must say it is a radically different feel that what I had under there before. It looks sounds and feels almost the same until you open the secondaries up, then things change in a big way. Still getting used to it and still haven't really got on it hard as I'm trying to break the new clutch in the right way. Can't wait until I can finish the fine tuning on a quiet engine and turn the wick up to really see what she has now.

That's good news, Lance. Glad it's working out well for you.

Great news

I hate to hear about the bottom end of your motor. Hopefully once you get it fixed you can get out and really start enjoying it. Thanks for all the info about the headers it was really helpful.

Barney is back home safe and sound, tucked away in the house garage and ready to be driven...

The shop raised the engine a bit and dropped down the pan. They snapped these two pictures with their Snap On scope Camera (I took pictures of their screen, sorry for the quality).

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...psewaawrpk.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...ps3bkhyuiy.jpg

What you see there is a piece of metal that holds the scraper. On that metal you can see where a rod nut was just touching it enough to knock the plating off in one spot.

Here is a picture that shows the scraper better

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...pshznu5xii.jpg

They then pushed down on the metal just a bit there where it was hitting and reinstalled the pan being sure to push it as far to the passenger side as possible before cinching it down.

The rods cleared when turning the engine by hand so they buttoned it up, put new oil and filter on it and test drove it to put some heat in it and it stayed quiet. I'm calling it fixed.

I didn't like any part of this, but they assured me that it is not all that uncommon and not that big of a deal, but also realized the noise was unsettling. I'm just glad it's fixed so I can go on with the rest of my off season projects... I sure appreciate Yancy taking care of this for me, this was much easier than pulling the engine again to pull the pan which would have been my remedy.

It's better than your car builder (in my case Steve Frisbee Auto Restorations AKA: SAR in Portland Oregon) starting and running your brand new engine without any oil in it at all.....


Had to get that in there! LOL

Doh!! :D Yes, it's better than that.

We all understand that shiat happens. Sometimes it happens to some more than others and sometimes it's a lot worse shiat than others... How it is dealt with when it does happen separates those I'll deal with again and those I won't.

This was an unusual deal where circumstances made things worse, no one to really blame for the circumstances, only praise for those that helped fix it. Only loss was some time.

I think I might just leave well enough alone... :D

I have about 500 miles on the new mill now, it is running fantastic and exceeding all expectations. Now that the clutch is broke in I can really start hammering on it, might even make a video or two...

What I have been working on lately is programming the MSD box to get the timing as efficient as I can get it as well as working on the cooling system to keep the temps in a more comfortable range.

The timing escapades can be followed here if interested https://lateral-g.net/forums/showthread.php4?t=48612 I am going to stop right where I'm at instead of advancing the distributor to 45* locked in as I'm a bit concerned about rotor phasing and cross firing with it that far advanced. I really don't see that the added gain by the additional steps will affect the way I drive the car that much, not enough to take the chance of adding additional troubles.

The cooling system is getting better, I might have it where I need it now and if not, I have one more trick up my sleeve. The car doesn't overheat, but the way it was configured...the electric fans wouldn't kick on low speed until the dash gauge went past 220*, then shut back off at around 212*. At idle, any temp over 210* or so caused a bit of an erractic idle, caused the idle to raise from 850 to 950 RPM and the AFRs got a bit wacky as well. As long as it was idling under 200*, everything just worked smoother. This is most likely carb related and I've resigned myself that I just won't get this setup to run as smooth as a EFI inducted setup. It's pretty good like it is though so I just worked on getting the idle temps down. For reference, at cruise on the highway...it stays steady at 180* without the fans running, due to the 180* thermostat.

I had my two fan switches both in the thermostat housing and had the gauge sensor in the driver side head. I moved the low speed fan switch to the passenger side head and that made the fans kick on low speed just before the gauge gets to 220* and it kicks back off between 200-210*, at idle in the garage the fans only run for a minute or so.

This is much better and the idle stays pretty stable in the garage. I don't think I ever hear the fans kick on high speed, really don't think the engine ever gets hot enough for high speed to be necessary. Now I can override the temp switches with my 3 position switch on the dash for the fans, what I will probably do during race days is use the dash switch to put the fans on high right before and right after runs to help keep the temps at bay when not at highway speeds.

If I decide it's necessary, I'll pick up a lower temp switch (like on at 195-off at 185) and put it in the t-stat housing to make the fans come on even sooner. This is a pretty easy fix and won't require draining the water again or moving any wires.

One thing I can not figure out though, and I'm sure it is carb related is the idle speed after driving the car. No matter how hard or easy I drive the car, once out on the road, any time I come to a stop light, the idle stays between 950-1000 RPM. I can not figure out what is different, or what is happening after the car is driven but it must be either extra fuel in the idle circuits or maybe extra air getting into the carb somehow, but it is constant and has been like this for a while. About the only thing I have not tried to correct this is swapping out the PCV valve. Not sure if that would affect this but I've pretty much resigned myself to live with this as well.

Like I said, most people driving this car would never notice any of this, all they would notice is this car runs VERY close to as if it actually had fuel injection. Starts are seamless, even hot starts, it can be driven right away after start up with no hiccups, it never has even the slightest of hesitations once on road...if you ask for it, it is there every time... Overall it is SWEET to drive. Can't wait to get it out on the track. My first event is an autocross test n tune April 9th.

Just my opinion - for what it's worth....


I've NEVER known a small block Chevy that ran with 45* advance.... and the more efficient the heads are - the LESS timing they require.

I've taken many EFI tuning classes - including those where the engine being tuned is on a dyno. It was demonstrated to us that FUEL RATIOS were relatively unimportant... affecting very little horsepower on the dyno from pig fat to too lean. What WAS important was as little as 2* of timing off optimal. The timing could affect as much as 40HP with just the slightest change. Remembering that horsepower is nothing more than a mathematical equation based off RPM and TORQUE... the torque is critically important to making a horsepower number.

Back in the day - during my drag racing years. We'd make a full throttle run - then pull the plugs (we used tow vehicles as I ran D/Gas). We'd then compare the MILES PER HOUR -- and read the plug strap. With the right timing - the miles per hour would improve - and the plug strap would change color right in the middle of the curve. That was a bingo. Now days we need a dyno to find this critical event.