I had friends over for dinner last night.... they have a 6 or 7 million dollar house here on Lake Washington... and a 2 million dollar house in Scottsdale... We have one house here - on the wrong side of the tracks... I have a 900K mortgage at 2.63%.... Gwen and I are retired... THEY are not and can't. I just got back from the Monaco Grand Prix... and a nice road trip to LA and up the California coast. I picked up the entire tab for three trucks and trailers - the rooms/houses/food etc... WE had a fantastic time. I picked up the tab because then I get to make the choices on rooms and food. I don't have to stay at "Mongos Beach Hut"....

My TOTAL monthly expense is around 5K.... that means that anything over that is purely discretionary spending. I'm living life to the fullest... my friends had to leave and get to bed because BOTH had to go to work in the morning. I wouldn't trade them for one minute. They think they're rich... I think their life sucks... They'll die owing... I'll die having done everything I ever wanted to do. :woot:

That says it all. You are living the Dream..:D

I am Financially Healthy, and not Wealthy.. I had to retire due to health reasons at 50. My plan was 57 . But life had other plans for me.

But had I not prepared for years of being debt free and Invested, I would have lost it all the day I got Endocartitis and a Massive Seizure. Since I was on a path and a plan, all it did was put a dent in my Net worth and stopped my earning power..

So a lesson for those who are Investing and Planning..What if you have a catostrophic failure ? Are you ready ? Trusts/Wills, Portfolio ?

Your monthly nutt is quite low, Kudos to you..People would think your monthly nutt would be 20 grand or more...Well Done..:bow:

Oh and if I get healthy enough to get out to meet you guys, I need a few months straight of good days first, I would like to go on one of your adventures..I don't like camping at Mongo's motel...:lateral: :cheers:

On this trip - my brother in law and my sister trailered my Nomad and my other friends (Stan is 74) trailered their '32.... we tried to keep the hours behind the truck and trailer to a minimum and maximize the hours in the hot rods... worked out real well.

My sister - who doesn't have a pot to pee in - stated several times how much she was enjoying this little road trip..... to which I replied. Well then you know what? If you want to keep doing this stuff when you're retired... you'd better start thinking about the current "I wants" (she'd mentioned several times about buying a new car when she hasn't finished paying off the '06 300 they bought!) and start saving for your future. Every time she mentioned buying a new "F150" my blood pressure started to rise.... as I thought - yep - that's why you're broke...

Amen.

My sister trades in cars like underwear.. She has student loans from milking the government, and every known gadget from apple..She is money stressed all the time. She talks of trading in her 2011 SUV for one with more bells and whistles :mad: Her house is paid for, but she borrowed to remodel it..She put well over what it is worth and went from doing good, to underwater ????

Then my sister in law, who pushed for me to buy the mansion, lost her home, went to Italy, and talks of going back. She had a great camera , but bought a new one for 5000 dollars.. Her Husband is 50 with a pregnant daughter at home, and 40K in a 401K...He will work until he collapses.

But yet they ask me for advise and won't take it...Because I cannot give them a 500% return on their money...Then they get Jealous ????

BTW --- This thread isn't about "me"..... I'm already set. What I'm trying to do is to get those that aren't - to start thinking about how they might go about getting there!

Are you willing to trade your retirement years "in style" for a new car you don't really need - but just "want" - now? Or that bigger house you don't really need? Or the expensive trip to Hawaii over the moderate trip to So Cal?

The more I hear people say "well... I can afford it".... because they have higher incomes... the more I question them and say -- OKAY.... do you still want to be able to live this way when you have no job (retired)? And how much money do you think that will take?

Right now -- it takes a million bucks invested to "net" about 40 grand a year in income... So if you're making 100K a year - you now need TWO MILLION in the bank!

I just had a discussion with the buddy that handles my bond portfolio... I have a years worth (due 2012) rolling over in the next 6 months...so we were discussing what kinds of return I can expect. Ya know what? We're going to roll this years into bonds due 2019 and MAYBE I'll get 3% tax free.... Do the math -- that's 30 grand a year net off ONE MILLION BUCKS invested. Sucks but that's what it is! If you want super safe instead of A rated bonds - you can drop to well under 2%!

Now... it won't stay that way forever... but in order to get my money back I MUST hold until maturity... so that's dead money until 2019 folks. Think about that! In my book - that's a long time! Next years bonds will roll into 2020's and so on. I hope rates don't go DOWN between now and then!

Greg..

Exactly.. I am trying to get the Wife to understand that.

I can spend a certain amount for life, or buy "wants", and end up broke.

People don't realize how much money it takes to live on after they stop working.

Another formula is you need 15 times your yearly salary, Invested to make it work. If you plan to live on less.

I am working on having 18 times my old yearly salary to make it work..

Right now it is tough to make money. I would love to lock in a CD at 11%.

Youd be surprised how cheap you can live if motivated, all my bills combined are $1300/mo. Even my dad lives quite well off $1000/mo social security income.

Anyways on to some planning, I can retire at 59 with 90% of my pension for the rest of my life(government pension, costs 10% of my salary), should I buy a house now and amortize the hell out of the loan by paying double the payment on a 15 year loan then put the entirety of my house payment into a 457(b), or just make regular payments on the house and pay the excess into my 457 thus reducing my tax burden. Basically im asking is it better to pay down a debt at 3% and gain equity and defer investing for 7 years(how long it should take to pay off a house), or invest for the entirety of those 15 years at the 457 maximum? If I invest the full amount into the 457 I can lower my federal tax rate to 15% (I have a 48,000 salary that when reduced to 43,000 by the 457 contributions drops me to a 15% tax bracket from the 25% im at now), so I would guess that the tax deferral would be worth it?

Personally at 3%, I would not double down on the loan payment, and I would Invest that money.

That is without the tax reduction. With the tax reduction , I would for sure keep the loan and Invest the rest. That is an additional 10% for you in tax savings, and you should be able to get more than 3% on your Investments. IMHO.

Now we need our resident Math experts to chime in and share their thoughts..

With these low fixed rate loans available now - there should be absolutely no rush whatsoever to hurry to pay them off.... And what you really hope for is raging inflation so that your investments produce higher yields! If you're paying 3 and making 7 it's pretty no brainer to me.


Equity in a house really doesn't produce anything except peace of mind... because you have to live somewhere regardless. The only reason anyone wants a paid off house is to have it paid off at the same time you retire - to reduce monthly costs. But even that goes away if you have more than adequate income.

If you invest - and re-invest the dividends your investments should double every 7 to 10 years... and your payment will stay fixed... and over that same period your income should increase - making your fixed payment even cheaper.

So - save now - invest now.

:cheers:

Great thread, would love to sit and pick your brain one afternoon over a coke.:D

Bring it on buddy! You know where I live!:woot:

Annaly Capital (NLY) went "ex-dividend" today - so it's trading down roughly the amount you just got paid... it paid out .55 a share and is trading down .53 a share as I write. Do not attempt to adjust your TV -- this is totally normal. Stocks typically always trade down the amount they pay out... then "normally" they'll take a couple days to recover.

You have to answer that question by analyzing risk vs. return. Paying off your loan early is a guaranteed no risk investment which produces a rate of return equal to the interest rate you are paying. You could also invest that money elsewhere such as the stock market in anticipation of getting a higher return (7% to 10%). If you invest in the stock market instead of paying the loan off early, you are taking on more risk in anticipation of a higher return. So it becomes a personal descision on whether you are willing to take on more risk to get a higher return. The risk is higher in the stock market because it is not a guaranteed return. The market may indeed go up 7% to 10% a year over the next 15 years, but there is a chance it will not go up at all, decline or even go up more than 7% to 10% a year.

You can also look at it and rate risk on a scale of 1 to 10 where 1 is a no risk investment with a low rate of return where 10 is a high risk that has the potential for high return, but also the change of loss. Paying off your loan would rate 1 or 2 whereas investing the money in the stock market maybe a 5? Where is your comfort level on the risk vs. return scale?

It is similar to asking should I invest in government bonds where I have a safe rate of return or invest in corporate bonds where the risk is higher, but the potential return is also higher. How safe do you want to be?

I am in the same situation with the housing loan vs. investments. I went to about 4 different lenders, local and online, and talked to them about possible home loan rates. Currently, I am 3 years into my 30 year fixed @ 4.375% which is a pretty good rate as it is. I was unsure if I should refinance with a 15 year, 20 year, or go back with a 30 year at a lower rate. In order to compare apples to apples, I had each lender give me a GFE (Good Faith Estimate). It is a standardized template that will help you compare apples to apples. If you dont get a GFE from each lender, then it will be hard to know what numbers you are really comparing against each other... So here is how it broke down for me:

Current @ 4.375%: $2300 (including escrow and PMI)
15 year @ 2.875%: $2700 (including escrow and PMI)
20 year @ 3.25%: $2400 (including escrow and PMI)
30 year @ 3.375%: $2000 (including escrow and PMI)

I could have swung the 15 year and cut the time it takes to pay my house off in half! BUT, That is a high monthly payment for me on top of electricity, water, garbage, groceries, etc and wouldnt leave me with much money at the end of the day to put into investments. So essentially, if i kept my current salary for the next 15 years I would have to hold off on investing for retirement for 15 years and basically lose that time for compound interest to help out my investments.

The 20 year came out to basically the same payment I have right now so I could live with the exact same habits I currently have (as far as spending goes!) AND cut 10 years off my home loan. It would have also allowed me to comfortably put in ~$300 bucks per month into an IRA on top of my company 401k contributions, and I could comfortably invest that money today...

With the 30 year I save ~$300 bucks a month from where I am at right now. So, this allowed me to now make my montly house payments AND invest $300 bucks per month with absolutely no change to my lifestyle. And, since I am currently able to make my house payment and swing $300 bucks per month into a Schwab account, if I take the 30 year then essentially I am able to keep my same lifestyle, make my monthly house payments AND put 600 bucks a month into additional savings for retirement (Schwab acct.)!! Thats $7200 bucks a year that I can invest, without changing my lifestyle at all. This is also assuming that I keep the same salary forever, which wont happen but its a worst case scenario.

In the end, I decided to refinance with a 30 year @ 3.375%. I would not have bothered refinancing unless I could save at least a percentage point. Reason being is that I am already 3 years into my 30 year loan so essentially I have 27 years left. By refinancing with another 30 year I am somewhat losing those 3 years of time. The other reason I wouldn't have refinanced unless I saved at least a percentage point goes hand in hand with the first reason. By the time I pay the closing costs, or have them rolled into my total loan value, not only am I losing that 3 years but I am also increasing the total loan amount by roughly 9k. If I were to just keep my current loan and make an additional 9k payment on my principal I could save a year or two of payments and interest which would have equaled the amount I save (this is assuming I was refinancing and saving less than a percentage point...).

All in all it took me a lot of chicken scratch on a paper pad, an excel spreadsheet with different amortization schedules on it, and a hell of a lot of back and forth and this and that before I decided on the 30 year. BUT, now I feel comfortable with my decision and feel like I can back up my reasoning. There are thousands of people out there who know more about money and future value of money vs. present value and all that stuff who would/will tell me I did the wrong thing. If I didnt spend all that time researching and somebody told me I did the wrong thing I would have started second guessing myself and thinking i eff'd up. So, spend some time, do some math, talk to your friends/family, and then choose a loan that you will feel comfortable with not only today, but also 10 years from now...thats my 1/8 of a cent:cheers:

Brilliant strategy!

When you do the time value of money... saving the MAXIMUM EARLY... is a key to long term returns compounded over time.

Will your investments always compound double every 7 to 10 years -- NO... but they only have to do that once or twice over your lifetime to make a SUBSTANTIAL difference!

But what will remain the same - your house payment and the fixed rate loan percentage. Where people screw up is in using their house as a piggy bank.

REINVEST the dividends and you're going to be a winner in the long run. You've got 30 years to retire - and then you'll live another 25 or 30 years... Your house will be paid for and your investments keep paying you. :cheers:

WOW.... this market is just whacked out! I like it -- but it's still just whacked.

You "newbs" are getting to see one crazy azz market that's for sure.

These market moves show you why you can't "time" the market -- and why it's so hard to "trade" the market... The days you think it should go up it goes down - the days you think there's nothing happening and the market is up 200 points.

It's days like today that show the "shorts" the door... and yet I think I'd have been betting with them (in other words - betting the market was going LOWER).

A very interesting look at investing.... and investing in big best of breed dividend payers.


http://seekingalpha.com/article/6917...g_income&ifp=0

Today I took a look at some of the home builders... Which is a group I don't own and have never owned. I now know why! Wow what horrible charts. I thought perhaps now might be the time to look to see if there's some upside to them but AS USUAL I'm way late to that party. The smart money has already bid them up over the last couple years.

Lennar (LEN) has moved 200+% in the last TWO years! And now trades near its peak and pays a lousy half a percent dividend.

K B Homes (KBH) is one they talked about on CNBC this morning as having "not traded up with its peers" --- but it too is up this year 35% already and pays a stinky little dividend.

It's easy to look and say -- geez! They're going up big time and I'm losing out... and that MAY be true enough.. and yes... I think we're on the road to a housing recovery based on the bids for property my buddy just got on his 5 acres (6 bidders slugging it out!).

SO HERE'S MY TAKE: This is gambling... you're gambling that there is a SUSTAINED (2 to 5 years) housing turnaround.. and at this point if there is one LITTLE hiccup in the numbers - you're going to see these sell off big time... and the dividends aren't the kind that will make you comfortable waiting for 'em to come back. So while I might miss a nice double over the next couple years - I might also miss getting my azz handed to me.

Remember that in investing - you have CHOICES... and if you make a wrong choice -- you get a double negative for your effort. The double negative is that you loose on the bet - and since your bet is now tied up - something else is on the move up. So you lost and you lost the ability to catch the ride on the upside... that's a double negative in my book.

So here's my thought when choosing investments -- you look -- like at a pretty girl - it's okay to constantly be looking... but you don't need to risk your marriage going on a date. Yes - the upside is appealing - everyone loves to hit a big winner.... but the downside is just not worth "the risk". Europe hiccups - we hiccup - the tax law changes (vote OBAMA if you want to continue on a downward "entitlement" slide ala Europe) that might happen etc... and there's a lot of risk to a shaky recovery at this point. And since you don't get paid to wait - why bother.

Greg - any thoughts on coal? They don't seem to have recovered well from 2008 yet. Also gambling, but thinking about picking some up some small positions in the likes of ACI or ARLP.

I don't know anything about coal - or commodities like that. I don't have investments in anything along those lines.

Greg maybe you should invest in companies that run and maintain internet forum message boards. You're obviously a big believer in their products :)

sure has been a crazy market...

on a good note tho.. I'm up 4% overall, with all my "Investing 102" strategy purchases i've made this year so far. Not bad i think!! Only 2 are "in the red" and one is only 1% in the red (CVX), other 6ish% (MCD), but that was bought before Investing 102 came along, when i was researching dividend investing on my own (starting to).

:cheers:

Although, technically, I'd want them ALL go to down for the next few years so i can build up more positions with the dividends they pay out.. but it is alot easier seeing your "picks" in the green vs the red. lol

Way to go Albert!

McDonalds will recover its former glory... and they're paying you to wait for it to do so... I was red in the name - after having huge gains in it - until this week when it went barely green... but I'm okay with the ups and downs of the market - those dividends are the true green!

The other day I was trying to show a buddy how to invest some new found money he's coming into... and I showed him a a "red" holding - it was down 4 or 5 grand... BUT then I showed him that they'd paid me 14 grand during the year. He got it!

I showed him that the gains nor losses are realized until you sell... and I don't plan to sell 98% of my holding any time soon.

On another note -- I have some (a years worth) bonds coming due between July and December.. so that money is "usually" rolled over into the next year out (in this case 2019 bonds) -- but my broker called and was trying to sell me on a couple and get this -- these were going to pay 2%!!! No growth in capital -- and 2% tax free.... until 2019! NO THANKS. I think he's fired. I can get 3% in McDonalds... and they'd have to be at the 30% income tax rate to get me down to 2% net...

Since you asked -- I looked into Coal... I now know why I'm not invested in that kind of energy...

Arch Coal (ACI) YTD - DOWN 52% - 1 year DOWN 73% - 5 year DOWN 89% - 10 year DOWN 39% And ----- drum roll --- the dividend is a whopping 1.74%

THEN I CHECKED OUT ALLIANCE RESOURCE PARTNERS (ARLP) -- now that's a stock a guy could invest in!

YTD - DOWN 19% - 1 year DOWN 21% - 5 year UP 33+% - 10 year UP 372%

And -- drum roll -- it pays a 7.31% dividend...

But since I don't know anything about that market - or why the Coal ETF (KOL) is so awful! Dreadful! BAD!.... I'd say I'm not looking to get into it. Just my own opinion. I just don't invest in stuff I don't know anything about.

What about Facebook?

Todd. I still think there is a lock on shareholders selling..I think it will drop when some people bail out.

It is still a no buy for me, but again, I only buy what I understand, and facebook doesn't seem like a good investment to me..More of a gamble , but not for me.

Hopefully others will chime in about faceBook.

LOL.... Leave it to you to ask about FaceyBook...


My "problem" with Facebook is multi-pronged:


Eyeballs can bail on these types of "companies" faster than you can blink. And you don't find out info on that metric until you wake up one morning and the stock is down 20%

The company is run by a single person with little to no experience. Let's use the foot in mouth - stock avalanche - ala the idiot that runs NetFlix... BOOM! One stupid amateur statement and your money evaporates.

I've hammered and hammered over and over again the INVESTMENT vs gambling. With Facebook there is only one thing that a person can hang their hat on -- they HOPE it's going up from where they bought it. Period. They don't make money (profit) - they don't pay a dividend - the P/E is way out of whack... there just isn't anything a guy can say that states this is a good solid INVESTMENT. MySpace evaporated... 'cause Facebook won... what happens when something "new" comes along and bang... the only metric a guy was gambling on disappears?

To me - this is like CROCS (CROX)... they're faddish. IF - BIG IF - the company can move beyond and become mainstream you're golden... if not... you have a nice loss on your hands. They miss a quarter and you're down big. Crocs 52 weeks 'range' -- $14.20 to 32.47 -- I don't want to be the guy holding at 30ish and the stock is trading at 16.

The very fact that the IPO was a flop - and you have the lock up period yet to come off is another troubling factor. If the IPO ran 50% and climbed from there... then the lock up wouldn't bother me so much - because the rank and file might tend to only trim holdings while waiting for the price to climb. But now - if you were a holder - and you watched as the money slipped thru your fingers - would you tend to bail or hold? My guess is there's going to be plenty of new stock to come to market.

Let's use Microsoft as a prime example of how new stock to market affects the stock. The only thing that causes a stock to rise (or anything for that matter) is you have to have more people that want something than don't....Think houses - we went from everybody is buying one to nobody wants one and look at the result!

Paul Allen and Bill Gates dump NEW (Founders Stock) on the market monthly - in Bills case it's public knowledge - and he sells 200 to 500 HUNDRED MILLION PER MONTH... New never before been on the market shares... That just pounds the stock month after month... Now that it's been down for years - the grants that the employees got/get - they can't bail on 'em fast enough! So there's more shares "for sale". Thus you end up with a stock that's almost impossible to lift.

Once again = In investing you have OPTIONS... there are so many other GREAT investments out there that have growth rates of 100% over 5 or so years AND that pay income... That's where I put my money. They don't come with bragging rights.. but I smile all the way to the bank.:unibrow:

I wouldn't buy Facebook but I seem to remember someone without a Facebook account buying some shares. :unibrow:

Only because I got them at IPO price of $38... and then PROMPTLY lost money selling the crap! :faint:

If you are thinking about investing in coal or wondering why it's getting hammered then I have three words for you: cheap natural gas.

I don't know anything about coal or investing in coal. However, if you pay attention to all of the news on Fracking i would only invest in coal if fracking starts to get shutdown due to all the environmental concerns.

Otherwise fracking could end up being the nemesis of coal. I read the following line in a recent news article about natural gas

Not only is natural gas cheap right now but it burns far cleaner than coal in power plants.

Just my .02

We've talked about Mutual Funds and 401's etc in the past -- and the fees they charge...


Here's an interesting look at them.



http://redtape.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2...wont-help?lite

Thanx for the link Greg, good article. This info is great for guys like myself, i've always saved, but not the right way (in other words, have done the cardinal sin of investing and forgetting). Its not what we make, but what we keep.

My dad said it best i think, "nobody manages your money better than yourself" (i'm sure he was quoting somebody else..lol)

That's the part that kills me the most I think... that people abdicate the one thing that is probably the most important to them. Money isn't everything - but it does pay for your essentials - your education - etc... yet people seem to not really want to pay attention to it. Trust me - it doesn't buy you happiness - but it sure as heck does everything else you ever need and want! Try living without it -- and you'll find out it's pretty danged important.

:cheers:

Morning Gents.

I just thought I would throw this out there.

Some people never get started on Investing because they just don't know what to do, or they always have something that get's in the way..Then months and years go by, and they haven't done anything.

I will say that I get help. I meet with a "Fee only" Fiduciary to discuss things, at least once a year. From the NAPFA organization.

Sure you can do it by yourself, but for those that may want help,DO NOT go to the bank, or a Broker. They are there to sell you their products, and at a high fees that has fees on top of the fees..

As my money grew, I decided to get a sounding board, a Fiduciary, to discuss my Strategies...

There was a rap song once that said,"I keep my mind on my money, and my money on my mind"..That is what I do..

I am not saying you have to have help, but if you ever think you need it,NAPFA, may be your choice..There is also the Garrett Network, but I have never used them.

Remember , FEE ONLY, and FIDUCIARY...not fee based...

Just a thought for those that are stuck in a rut, or frozen and not doing anything. For those of you with a good working plan, you probably don't need the help.

Mike:cheers:

Here's an interesting article on the effects of OBAMACARE on your income...


I don't want to get into a political discussion... or even a healthcare discussion... but I will be voting for a change. I'm just not for socialized "anything". We only have europe to look to if we want to see what all this "free" stuff does for an economy.


http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...p_mostpop_read

Great article Greg...Another way to punish us, to fund other projects.

We all have our "political beliefs".... and there is no right or wrong IMHO.... so political discussions can go on and on and end up with no answer. But --- one only has to drive thru California to see what happens when a government entity is forced (chooses?) to spend it's income on "entitlements" rather than infrastructure (roads and bridges etc), education, police and fire... which to me - is what government SHOULD be doing for the public. There are places in California that I just drove through - where I was certain I was in a third world country. The roads were crumbling.... and the houses and businesses along those roads were in even worse shape. To me this is a very strong statement that whatever they're doing - isn't working. Once someone goes on entitlements they don't go off and they're lives don't get better - they get worse... there is no income or productivity from that person - therefore the government collects less.... and spends more... and has less to spend on things that truly benefit the masses such as decent highways and keeping those clean and trimmed... etc etc.

WE -- three couples -- actually discussed where else we would go on our next trip to AVOID California. Next trip will take us thru Arizona and Utah. We'll be able to trailer at highway speeds and NOT beat the stuffing out of our equipment... and frankly.. we're hoping it's less depressing.

I want to share with you guys (and gals) WHY I don't believe in the FaceyBooks of the world as far as INVESTING goes.... It's because after having lived investments for some 30 odd years... it's been proven to me time after time - that it's just not necessary to 'gamble' when I can just invest... and while my investments might seem mundane... they seem to get the job done. I'm not bragging here -- to the contrary -- I'm trying to get the 'newbs' to understand and be able to separate the "exciting get rich" stuff from the just boring standard investments that DO make you rich over time. To have faith in INVESTING over gambling...

Let's look at one of my personal holdings, Philip Morse (PM).

For the Schwab account I use here (since it was "new money") it's the easiest to use for examples etc...

I bought 2500 shares of PM on 02/03/2011 @ $57.80

I added (remember to scale in and out!) 2000 more on 10/24/2011 @ $70.119

I bought 2000 more on 02/10/2012 (ONE WHOLE YEAR AFTER THE INTIAL INVESTMENT) @ $80.399

A month later -- I looked at my GAINS (paper) and decided I should lock some of that gain in -- because frankly -- NOBODY EVER WENT BROKE TAKING A GAIN.... (I laugh at this because it usually costs me money in the long run - as you sell stock that just keeps going up!)... So on 03/28/2012 I SOLD 1000 shares @ $86.671.... If you do the math - that was "free money". LOL

NOW THEN --- I'm still "chasing" yield -- and this is a good core holding and has a good yield...

So on 4/30/2012 I buy 500 shares @ $89.289

Then it drops a bit - and I buy 1000 shares on 05/21/2012 @ $84.144

You all will no doubt grab your calculators to see how I came out -- but that is not the reason for this post...

Here's the other factor -- I live off my dividends and interest... and while I locked in some LTCG -- (then promptly put it back in at higher prices!) -- the key here is to look at the ONE YEAR+ GROWTH OF MY ORIGINAL INVESTMENT @ $57.80 and TODAY it traded at $89.00 !!!!


I took a REALIZED GAIN of $57,803.58 (Long Term Capital Gain)

And my dividends of $13,595.00

Totals $71,398.58 (not bad for 15 months!)

All of this took ONE YEAR AND 3 MONTHS.... AND I STILL have a paper "GAIN" of $106,432.58 in the stock as I type this!

I ask you.... is this boring investing or is it gambling... and with this kind of growth of capital and getting paid to do that on top of the gain... does a guy really need to gamble?

Okay -- without all the details -- here's another BORING stock... AT&T...

By the way -- I'm not RECOMMENDING any of these names to anyone -- but in order to have a "discussion" you have to talk about something... so I'm once again using names that I own.


The thing about RETIREMENT is that you're going to have to plan on living a while AFTER you retire... hopefully 25 or 30 years. Think about that for a minute.... 25 years. Nobody ever does the actual math... but if you retire at 65 and want to live 'til you're 90... that's 25 years! Now days - people live that long easily! And think about the medical advances we've enjoyed in the last 25 years that have helped people live longer! 25 years ago - you had a heart attach - you died! Now - no biggie...

Okay -- so you have 15 years before you retire -- and you're going to live for 25 years AFTER you retire -- that's 40 YEARS! That's 40 years of INFLATION...


Had you bought/invested in boring old AT&T in 1986 (ONLY 26 years ago) -- you'd have 600+ % GROWTH in your CAPITAL -- and you'd have gotten a dividend to live on all this time. For 15 years it would have been reinvested buying more shares - then it would send you a check every quarter...

How boring is that? 605% growth.... That will keep you AHEAD of inflation... and keep you in a new fishing boat so you can actually enjoy your retirement! :woot:

well i sure hope they continue on that growth pattern... LOL.

they're up 6% for me since I bought $1k worth last month. :thumbsup: