I buy and hold AT&T (T) for a "steady eddy" and because it pays a larger dividend than many stocks. Ditto this with Verizon (VZ) which I don't own but have from time to time (use these to park money if you're not sure where you want to put it - they don't go down much and don't go up much either).

AT&T etc are the kinds of stocks that you hold really long term because over time they will save your butt when things go south -- and you can count on 'em to not rattle your cage. Stocks like this aren't very exciting when things are going WELL... but they are very nice to own when things aren't and we will all go thru periods when the steady eddies are the only thing "working".


:cheers:

They are up 18% for me and that was just 3 months ago when I took my 401k and put it into a self directed IRA

damn!! nice!!

Im trying to get my work to allow us to do self directed 401ks, instead of mutual funds... we'll see.. its an "option" according to the 401k company, but my work has to sign up for it or something like that.

Getting ripped off on my 401K
 

Looking at the 401K options available to me by my employer, I believe I am getting a bit of the short end of the stick. Basically NONE of the funds available to me in my plan have a decent expense ratio. Even the "Index mirror" funds are over .1 thats $100 every 10K in Management fees ??? !!!! Total BS.... So my question is can I move money from my jobs plan to any kind of retirement account that I can manage myself? For example through Vanguard? Are their tax issues or penalties that make this a bad idea? I assume maybe only the money I contributed is eligible?

Look into setting up a Personal Brokerage Account through Vanguard. I've seen someone else on here talk about doing that. I'm trying to do the same thing at my work, but we use John Hancock Pensions, and the "company" needs to be setup to allow it (its an "option, JHP said, that my work must approve")... This will allow you to invest in whatever, just like a normal brokerage account. Worth it to check.

So here's a "bigger picture" thing to look at IMHO. The fees are "nothing" IF -- BIG IF -- the funds are making your money grow. That, after all, is what you're supposed to be paying the bozos to do!

I would take a harder look at your money growth - dividends, if any, etc and see if - while the fee is annoying - if they're making you a grand for every $100 you're paying them...

:cheers:

A couple "observations" in my Schwab account... when I look at a red letter day like today. I noticed a couple holdings are green. I'm the kind of guy that always looks for "what is different". So on a day when everything is green - I check up on the one or two that are red... and vice versa. I'm looking to make sure I haven't missed some important news event that would affect my holding.

Today -- Mickey D's is up... okay - nice but nothing happening there...

But I also noticed Annaly (NLY) and Blackrock Duration Income (BLW) are UP on a red day... again no particular news... BUT in looking at the chart - I click on the YEAR TO DATE charts of these two...and here's what I love:

BOTH have nice share price gains ON TOP OF outsized dividend payouts. NLY is up 6+% YTD and BLW is up 4% YTD. While that doesn't sound like much (and may or may not hold) those are nice returns if they were all by themselves -- add the dividend and bingo... I'm a happy man.

AGAIN -- This is NOT A RECOMMENDATION -- These are NOT -- read that right -- NOT buy and hold names. We have an adverse rise in interest rates etc - and these get CRUSHED in a stampede for the door. So if you're not watching, and reading the news, and paying attention -- DO NOT buy these kinds of shares. Stick to the MCD - KO - PM - JNJ - KMB - KMP type names.

Not really.. speaking exclusivity if the INDEX funds I have... they are making more on fees than I am in growth.... total scam... total BS... the unnamed company managing my $$ has better options.. just not in my plan.. Coincidencely they are my Co. Customer... huuuummmm

You guys know what I love about dividend stocks??

Today the DOW was down 124 points and I finished the day in the GREEN.... Gotta love 'em!

:cheers:

Ah ha -- you have a bit of a conundrum there....

What do you guys think about converting my SEP IRA over to a direct type and investing in property. My ROI analysis on a single family has me realizing 20-25% on my initial investment in the first year and it increases as principal reduction increases. Of course rental amount decline will offset to some extent in the future.

How does the current stock market level compare to highs in history? Is the market to high for the economy?

#1 Todd -- talk with someone qualified to answer your question -- I'm almost positive that PROPERTY is not allowed in a SEP/IRA/401 investment vehicle.

I own part of an apartment building in GWEN'S IRA -- and only because it is a partnership and LLC... and it's been absolute HELL to have it in there. Most institutions won't hold "private paper".... and because it's not a qualified investment - we have to file income taxes on it every year - and the taxes have to be paid out of the IRA -- and try to get that done... it's just a total PITA. To the point that last tax filing season I had a discussion with my accountant about just "buying the investment outta there"! Turns out - that can't be done either... :rolleyes:


RE: Market question


There is no way anyone can answer a question like that... it's just GUESSING. And or "market timing" - which doesn't work. The market - like housing - just goes up over TIME.... You'll never get in at the right time. The minute you're in the little man in wall street takes everything you bought straight down. :D

I finished in the green today also, not by much but green is green.

Here is what happens when Greg Weld is in charge of the fireworks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lrPCE...e_gdata_player

Could that be the reason I'm retired?!?!?! One big OOPS..... :lol:

One of my best buddies is my advisor so he'll set me straight on the logistics. He'll tell me to leave it in there regardless. My thought is to use the money in a venue where I'm extremely experienced vs. a mutual fund that isn't performing, hasn't been performing, and I'm not sold will ever perform. Times change, the market has went up and down since I started investing, it's been a safe investment, not a retirement plan. Where else am I going to get 25% on my money? The compound effect hasn't come into play yet.

My only concern is putting to many eggs in one basket. I just consider low prices and low rates a genuine opportunity. I'm contracting a propert in a GOOD area of Vegas for 109,500. I can rent it for $1050 a month. The mortgage(PITI) is $612 a month. Cash flow $400 a month, principal reduction, and depreciation. Down the road I can realize the residual or 1031. The only fault I can find is if the **** really hits the fan.

where is it ?;)
the shack im in now has me paying very close to that(well above market value), and the landlord wont budge...
plus i was too stupid and careless before the economy tanked so im stuck being a renter for now.:(

It's in Silverado Ranch. I won't accept that boat anchor for payment.:D

you read my mind!:P

aww, im stuck staying in the north by the shop.

For you, Todd -- it might "pay" you to make a withdrawal of your SEP/IRA and just pay the taxes and penalty on it. I totally agree with you that with your knowledge and ability - you should be buying rentals.

You'll just have to come up with some extra "deductions" to cover the withdrawal to minimize the hit.:unibrow: No way around the 10% penalty - but that is nothing compared to the opportunity.

There are plenty of investor groups right now that are buying anything and everything they can steal. This is something you should maybe look into - where you're the managing partner and get 51% stake plus "fees" (5% annually) for finding - structuring - managing. The partners buy shares and it's their money that makes up the down stroke and fix up costs and fund the initial pot for repairs etc. Usually the ROI is 7% and their portion of the tax benefits of depreciation. You'd only be limited by how much skin you'd want to put in the game - and the guys I know that do this (we've been doing this since the early 80's - except it's large Class A apartment buildings not houses) won't invest with anyone that doesn't have significant skin in. But look at it this way -- instead of 30K down on one house -- if you have 10% in - you're partners would have 270K in -- so you could buy 10 houses instead of one.

If the shizzle hits the pan "that bad" we're all screwed regardless of the type of investments we have.

Property is an absolute steal right now. We'll likely never have the prices so low, and the financing at ridiculously low rates at the same time. Back the truck up and buy like a pig.

If interest rates weren't so low I'd finance the stuff for you... but the bank will give you cheaper money for a FAR longer term. I bought a building for my brother in law last year and gave him a 6% rate for 5 years with a balloon (that I'll just roll unless he wants out). But that is commercial property which carries higher rates. Rates are like 5.45% on a 3MM 30 year with a 80% LTV. I gave him a 100% plus the build out costs.... just like the old days!:willy: :lol:

That's a great idea that I'll put some serious though into. I'm limited to 5 single families due to financing restrictions anyway. That is, unless I find private financing at a higher rate. One way I may get around it is to have Kelli and I finance some separately.

I'll find out if there is any angle to gain access to SEP funds without a tax burden and post it here next week. My broker has a grasp on it as well so I'll pick his brain a little.

I can get my initial investment back in 5-7 years depending on vacancy, rental rate decline, and repairs. Then I'm still getting 20-25% return on my money based on todays rental rates. Even if it drops to 10-15%, hard to beat.

Thanks Greg, I was going to ask you this question.

Todd interesting points. I would be doing what you are thinking for sure but crack shacks in my area $800k are an average home is a million bucks! :_paranoid

God bless SIN stocks.... (think TERBACKY MO and PM etc:D )


Every time we have a down day... I look and the down ain't a 1/3rd of what I think it might be... so you look at your accounts to figure out why. It's the SIN stocks holding like a foundation under a house.

I used to use them to park money - but in the last 3 or 4 years I've just seen the light and now use them for income and growth. AND they've turned into the stocks that go green on a red letter day. Gotta love that!:cheers:

This is the biggest pitfall of real estate investing, cash flow is not a function of rent - PITI, because what happens when you have to replace a water heater, or a roof etc?

In reality a property like that will over a longer period of time cash flow probably 150-200$ a month. Now as you mention you get the benefit of principle and possible appreciation so it can definitely be double digit returns.

Most of the hard core RE investors, like say from biggerpockets.com, would advocate rent be 2% of the purchase & rehab price, so 1k rent on 50k house but that would mean investing out of state (the south mostly) for many of us, and then paying a property management place (thus taking 8-12%)

I found that when looking at the numbers that anything less than 1% is not worth it to consider, and you have to assume that expenses will be about 40-50% over the long term, and that does not include PITI.

Again though, the deal you mention would not be terrible, I don't have my spreadsheets at work but I'm closing a somewhat similar ratio deal in 3 weeks, a 132,500 house that I figure will rent for 1300+ quickly. I projected making about 250$ a month, with PITI of around 690$.

Don't forget the tax benefits of depreciation. They can be substantial and especially for the "self employed" person.

COKE STOCK SPLIT 2 for 1
 

Well good morning gents....


Any of you hear about the COKE (KO) TWO FOR ONE STOCK SPLIT?? Splits July 27th and you should see the shares in your account early August...


Does this mean anything? Well.... yes and no.

A stock split all by itself just means that you'll now have twice as many shares at half the cost per share. So there is ZERO value change. BUT.... at some point it becomes what I call the "law of large numbers"... so a .10 share price move is now multiplied by the number of shares you have... and any dividends etc - should they decide to raise them also see that same affect.

:cheers: :woot:

Since I do not have any Coke, would now be a time to start and grab some of the "law of large numbers"?

KO looks tempting and I am a user. :D

Effective in 16 calendar days and it's currently at a historic high of $78.25........:question:

Okay -- responding to the two previous posts....


Scott -- Apparently you don't look at the charts -- the long term charts.... 5 and 10 years.

If you do - I'll ask you this question. At what point would you have chosen to get in - pick a point - and then would you have asked me the same question about a "historic high"?

Total Return

1 Year
+17.3%
3 Year
+74.3%
5 Year
+72.1%



Mike -- A stock like this is a long term buy and hold and there is NO WAY to time the market. When you buy - it will go down - but look at the above historical return.... and I'll ask you the same question I did Scott. At what point was the right time to get in, in the last 5 years? Would down $1 on a bad day be the right time? Would that affect your performance? :D

I looked at this one and should have said "near" historic.
http://chart.finance.yahoo.com/z?s=K...n-US&region=US

Entry anytime between '62 and '95 or in '03 or '05 which is where it will be 7/27 :D

Buy it now check back in 5 years is my rational with this one. I doubt Coke will go the way of Kodak.

Oh..... FYI -- I held 4000 shares this morning when I BOUGHT another 1000 shares for a total of 5000.....

And when it splits I'll own 10,000

I consider this a small position ($ wise) and would load the boat if it paid a bigger dividend. But the way I invest - for every small paying dividend - I own a corresponding higher risk / higher paying dividend play. So it's about balance. I don't want too much 2.6% stuff -- because then I have to buy more 7% stuff... (which I just did but it's another apartment complex LLC that will pay 7.69% pre-tax)


This is one of those stocks that you own for "account protection" - so we'll now call this a "protector" instead of a steady eddy. It will give you peace of mind and protection on the downside when everything has gone to hell in a hand basket and will pay a "decent" dividend while you wait for things to turn around. At these prices it only pays 2.6%... but that's almost DOUBLE the rate of the 10year government bond - and probably safer! :willy: :woot:

I just placed an order for 50 shares so when it splits I'll have 100 which is a 200% position gain so there! :rofl: :woot:

Exactly my point...

Yeah there may have been a couple best / perfect entry points - but tell me in the future when those are going to be?

These stocks -- and for LONG TERM INVESTING -- you buy and start to collect the dividend. The earlier you buy - the more dividends you collect.

Either way - the day or week - or month after you buy - the stock will suck... and then you look at it and the SOB is up and you've gotten paid the whole time.

This is why I own MCD - KO - ED - JNJ - KMB. They're not sexy... but they keep me sleeping well and they pay me - and I check on them and damn if they're not gainers too (most of the time).

HAHAHAHAHA --- GOOD MAN!

Taking a page right out of your buddy Warren Buffets play book.

Somewhere it's in this thread where in the next couple years - his dividend is equal to his original investment... Boy, that would suck wouldn't it?

Call him and ask him when the right time to buy was... :rofl:

Just dumped a couple of loosers for a 115 share boost to my small KO position. :D .......... Executed the trade while drinking a coke!!! love the stuff. :thumbsup:

Not sure if I mentioned this but my 18 year old daughter opened a Roth and seeded it with MCD. She's funny and been watching it, she is a total health nut, and I said everytime you see your step-sister with a mickey D bag thank her. Of course all in good fun they love being smart-alecs.

I got a letter in the mail, to vote for or against the stock split. Greg do you usually mail those things in? I didn't fill it out or vote.

I look forward to the split and more splits in the future. I own 81.5 shares of KO.

That old fart probably would have told me '62. :D

I never vote or bother to send in any of that stuff. Frankly -- the big institutions vote and control everything. If Warren Buffett votes for something - it matters - MY VOTE - Not so much.

That's funny!

The whole time I was in europe -- where EVERYBODY SMOKES -- and it was pissing my wife off (the smell etc)... I kept telling her... NO DEAR! that's the smell of MONEY! I'm hoping they're all smoking 3 packs a day because that's what's paying for our trip!

Took her awhile but she finally got it. :thumbsup:

Sweet! I own KO. That definitely makes up for my choice of OXY over Conoco Phillips when I missed out on that division.


I had a well I was doing some work on a couple months ago. I told the company man his well smelled like dog $hit because it really did small that way. He laughed, breathed in deeply, and said it smells like money to him.