What more is the ATF supposed to do? How could they have stopped Lanza? After reading reports of Fast and Furious, it sounds like they have plenty of 'tools'.

All I'm hearing from central planners and their proponents are unrelated, reactionary solutions in search of a problem, that have no effect whatsoever on criminals, but law abiding citizens. And certainly have little to nothing to do with the Newton tragedy.

How many "rounds" in a pack of cigarettes? but big tobacco doesn't target children or isn't involved in law making...:rolleyes:

How many "rounds" in a 12 pack? but there aren't any kids dying from DUIs or anyone from capitol hill blowing hot on a breathalyzer... :rolleyes:

If we could just save one child... we would gladly throw away the whole constitution....



Jeff-

LMAO!!! THAT IS AWESOME!!!!:lmao:

^^^^^^^ totally agree!!


Wild Bill for President!!:D

Just got home from a concealed weapons permit class for UT, longtime friend was the instructor and 28 vet of local law enforcement. He is also the PIO (Public Information Officer) so he is the front line with the media.

His father was an HK dealer selling to law enforcement agencies on the west coast and still is a Class III dealer operating a indoor range and gun store.

He made a very interesting point in the class regarding the assault weapons and magazine capacity issues: "Roughly 80% of the 1000 firearms felonies committed each day in the US are committed by felons in possession of firearms. MAKE the crime punishable by life imprisonment and in two years you will have removed a substantial number of illegal weapons and criminals from society. Why go after a weapon category that is responsible for 1% of the felonies committed in the US.
Word travels fast in the underground and gang banger world and they'll learn to use alternative weapons to firearms putting them at a disadvantage to the law abiding armed citizen."

problem is the revolving door justice system here. Jails are full and people are getting tired of housing them. Much like the 3 strikes punishment, it makes the felons much more dangerous.
Congrats on the class. It puts a different perspective on owning doesn't it?

Even if you are not in CA its worth the look and support the cause. http://calguns.net/

x10 on Wild Bill... that is a great clip. :lol:

That's the thing with criminals, deterrents really don't work. A thief doesn't rob a bank thinking he's going to get caught.

Again, all of the talk is about "keeping guns out of the hands of criminals". Was Adam Lanza a felon? Did he have a criminal history?

Mixed in all the hysteria we have shifted off course. The politicians and media have moved the goal posts. The FBI's own stats show us that violent gun is down 49% in 20 years, and that more people kill with hammers and other objects than guns.

The real issue is that in all these mass shootings, the kids were on psychotropic prescription drugs.

Of course Fienstein wont mention that. She'll just put on some theatrical display of fear and emotion. Not to mention, her saying that the cross lobby is stronger than the gun lobby? Classic divide and conquer. What a witch.

Sorry if already posted. I haven't kept up with the thread entirely and I haven't checked the accuracy of the claim.

From the World Health Organization:

The latest Murder Statistics for the world:

Murders per 100,000 citizens

Honduras 91.6

El Salvador 69.2

Cote d'lvoire 56.9 52.2

Venezuela 45.1

Belize 41.4

US Virgin Islands 39.2

Guatemala 38.5

Saint Kits and Nevis 38.2

Zambia 38.0

Uganda 36.3

Malawi 36.0

Lesotho 35.2

Trinidad and Tobago 35.2

Colombia 33.4

South Africa 31.8

Congo 30.8

Central African Republic 29.3

Bahamas 27.4

Puerto Rico 26.2

Saint Lucia 25.2

Dominican Republic 25.0

Tanzania 24.5

Sudan 24.2

Saint Vincent and the Grenadines 22.9

Ethiopia 22.5

Guinea 22.5

Dominica 22.1

Burundi 21.7

Democratic Republic of the Congo 21.7

Panama 21.6

Brazil 21.0

Equatorial Guinea 20.7

Guinea-Bissau 20.2

Kenya 20.1

Kyrgyzstan 20.1

Cameroon 19.7

Montserrat 19.7

Greenland 19.2

Angola 19.0

Guyana 18.6

Burkina Faso 18.0

Eritrea 17.8

Namibia 17.2

Rwanda 17.1

Mexico 16.9

Chad 15.8

Ghana 15.7

Ecuador 15.2

North Korea 15.2

Benin 15.1

Sierra Leone 14.9

Mauritania 14.7

Botswana 14.5

Zimbabwe 14.3

Gabon 13.8

Nicaragua 13.6

French Guiana 13.3

Papua New Guinea 13.0

Swaziland 12.9

Bermuda 12.3

Comoros 12.2

Nigeria 12.2

Cape Verde 11.6

Grenada 11.5

Paraguay 11.5

Barbados 11.3

Togo 10.9

Gambia 10.8

Peru 10.8

Myanmar 10.2

Russia 10.2

Liberia 10.1

Costa Rica 10.0

Nauru 9.8

Bolivia 8.9

Mozambique 8.8

Kazakhstan 8.8

Senegal 8.7

Turks and Caicos Islands 8.7

Mongolia 8.7

British Virgin Islands 8.6

Cayman Islands 8.4

Seychelles 8.3

Madagascar 8.1

Indonesia 8.1

Mali 8.0

Pakistan 7.8

Moldova 7.5

Kiribati 7.3

Guadeloupe 7.0

Haiti 6.9

Timor-Leste 6.9

Anguilla 6.8

Antigua and Barbuda 6.8

Lithuania 6.6

Uruguay 5.9

Philippines 5.4

Ukraine 5.2

Estonia 5.2

Cuba 5.0

Belarus 4.9

Thailand 4.8

Suriname 4.6

Laos 4.6

Georgia 4.3

Martinique 4.2

The United States = 4.2

ALL the countries above America have 100% gun bans

In God We Trust!

Well, step it up to the death penalty until the over-crowding is neutralized. :unibrow:

Regarding the CHL I've had one in Oregon since '84, I did this mainly as a social networking event and even though there's overlap in states honoring the permit, holding OR & UT permits I have carry rights in the majority of states. Here's the data: http://www.handgunlaw.us/documents/USReciprocity.pdf