Todd = Iceman.
Carl = Hollywood.

Like all callsigns, you don't get to pick. It gets chosen for you.

Let the fun begin.

How about snappy since I'm always breaking stuff.. :)

I've got a few in mind, but I need to chew on 'em for a while. It's not something you want to rush in to since it will likely stick with you for a while.

We'll come up with something good....:unibrow:

You know.. if you do it just to be mean that's really not in the spirit.. lol

Hey guys, there's a killer autocross here next weekend.. LOTS of runs at the California Speedway.

Thinking of going since my new bar will be here Monday.. interested?

Hey Todd,

On a lighter note and as indicated above, you might want to be cautious with the "call sign" thing. With 35-plus years experience playing the callsign game in the military fighter community, I have seen some pretty funny (and sometimes rough) stuff -- like the guy, last name Masters, who tried to self-name himself "Dutch" (Dutch Masters). Didn't float, so he was forever known as "Bater". Then there's Booger, Tits, Skids, and Crash -- all with good stories. As far as the Topgun theme goes, you might want to Google Quentin Tarantino's U-tube version of the movie. LOL Good seeing you at Optima. Your car looked very sharp and you will make it an on-track winner.

Pappy

Just gotta say that after reading ALL 1800+ posts and pictures over the last few days that this was an amazing build. Good job and awesome car:thumbsup:

Steve, I'm a little sizzled right now. The whole SEMA/Optima challenge thing along with a cold and work has me wanting to do nothing. :unibrow:

Pappy, we'll take it easy on Steve. :lol: Love that Corvette man!

Todd, thanks for the kind words. :cheers:

When I first saw your post and username, I thought you were the builder of Todd's previous "less-than-stellar" big block. :_paranoid

Nope, not me.

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/a...6898251_n1.jpg
Look at that weight transfer.....

It would be great if this was drag racing and I had the travel available. Since the Optima Challenge, I know the driver and car need help to get where I want to be. My first obstacle is that I've found that my rear shocks are bottoming out big time. I don't know if removing the rear sway bar made it that much worse or I've just been to dense to notice. :D I did know the RR was but the LR always had a little left until recently.

I decided to start from scratch and design a new bracket to increase my shock travel by 5/8". Any more and I will run into rear differential cover to crooss member contact or tunnel to pinion housing contact. The brackets are being cut now. Number two is the spring rate is clearly to soft. So I started from scratch and did a base spring rate calculation. To do that, you loosen the spring adjuster collar until the spring is at full length with just a hint of tension. You take that measurment and then drop the car on the ground to see how far the spring is compressed.

Free length is 11.75"
Compressed is 8.25"
11.75-8.25=3.5"
Current Spring Rate is 175=152 Adjusted due to 20 degree angle
3.5 x 152=532
Desired bump travel 2.58
532/2.58=206 Spring rate needed

So basically I need about 50 lb/in more than I currently have to control the weight. I'm going to start with a 220 lb/in spring and go from there. The ideal compressed spring length is around 9.34. That is over an inch more than I have now!!! I'm positive that my shocks were bottoming out under acceleration and some cornering. I'm hoping the extra spring rate and 5/8 extra shock travel keep the rear from bottoming out.

Up next may be the front springs. I have a feeling they are a little soft as well. I really want to keep the ride nice so I need to walk a fine line. I really want to get the car where it stays flatter in all the events. To much body roll and weight transfer is not good for what I do with the car. Stay tuned..
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/a...nge2010109.jpg

Sorry to hear your spring rates are off. What do you have in the front?

Frank set me up with 225lbs/in rate in the rear which sounds like from your calculations should be good, which makes me glad. I have 550lbs/in up front but that is with a BBC.

Car looks and sound great on the track thou, wish I was at the same point you are :hail: I'm still scraping stuff off my roof :lol:

I have 450's up front. With an all aluminum big block it puts me at about 500 lbs for the engine vs around 750 for a iron big block. I'll let you know how the 220's work out.

I was running 450's up front on the Nomad.. it's a SBC so is probably about what the ZL1 BBC is.... and I went to 550's up front and the ride GOT BETTER not worse.

These things all aren't what they seem on paper. I'd have bet my last buck the 450's would give nice ride and the 550's would be harsher... but go figure. I also changed the shocks from QA1's (they suck) to Strange.... so that may also have helped with the overall ride quality. My sister got in the car - I didn't tell her I'd done anything -- and she says -- Have you done something to the ride? It used to ride like crap!

She's right of course.... Gee.... come to think of it -- I sure hope she got home okay. :lol:

What's that Nomad weigh, 6000 lbs?:D I agree, I just don't want to swap both ends at once. I may go to 500's just to split the difference.

4023 #'s to be exact and weight balanced by a professional race shop here.

It's "svelte" like me! :D

Hey Todd, car is looking great! I have a question about your rear spring rate change. Obviously you are doing that to carry the weight and to prevent the shocks from bottoming. Are you concerned about making the car "looser" by increasing the rear roll stiffness without also increasing the front? Stiffer springs on the rear will definitely induce more oversteer, although not nearly as bad as bottoming a shock in the middle of a turn. I remember that you were fighting a loose condition early on. IMHO, You might have to sacrafice a little ride comfort (stiffer front springs) to get the car back in balance.

Pappy

That's one mean looking car.
Good luck with the spring rate.:thumbsup:

Just a thought
 

I would guess Stielow's car's motor weighs about what yours does and he is running 550 front and 275 rear. I think Rupp runs 550 or 500 front with a 275 rear. Mary Pozzi's 2nd gen runs a custom 275 lbs rear leaf.

Not getting into sway bars or sizing, but I would probably start at 550 in front and 275 in the rear. Seems to me with 3 different style suspension set ups, the 275 seems to work with these cars.

Pappy, you are absolutely right. Since I unhooked the sway bar, the car is actually a little to tight. I dropped the air pressure in the tires and it tightened it up even more. My thought was that the correct spring rate and more travel may balance out the car with the current front spring. Who knows....

Payton, listening to Mark's interview after the challenge is what got my wheels spinning. He mentioned 550/250 in the interview. His car looked really sporty. You are probably right, who better to copy! I think you have me talked into swapping the front springs.

What brand of springs are running? I just changed the brand on mine and found a difference in the same pressure.

Fronts are whatever DSE uses and the rear are Alston or where they source.

I've got a call into hypercoil. I may as well stay with the same brand on all four corners. What do you recommend Rodger?

Ridetech is selling Hyperco's now. The DSE units may very well be Hyperco.

The selction alston has is not broad enough for tuning a little bit. Plus the lengths are all over the map. I had problem on my car since it is so light so I switched to Hyperco's just for the selection.

have you looked at these guys springs.

http://www.landrumspring.com/pages/c...6&pagenumber=1

600 F 250 R great on the road course, ok on the AX, nice on the street.

Appreicate it Matt. I need to get my springs ordered today.

Does it ever end?:D Tonight I pulled my front and rear coil overs in anticipation of the new hypercoils coming pony express.

I designed some new shock mounting plates to give me an additional 1/2" of rear shock travel at ride height. After removing the springs I bolted on the new shock plates and simulated max shock travel. My measurements are right on the money. The chassis and body won't accept any more shock travel. The pinion housing is about a pinkie away from the crossmember and the rear pumpkin cover is fairly close. The aluminun shock mount was originally designed to be bolted to the rear end housing without a bracket. I had to move it due to wheel to shock contact due to wheel flex under load way back.

I now realize that the original design with my pinioin angle at the time would've caused rear end to cross member contact. I used to run equal and opposite U joint angles. Now I run the car with the smallest u joint angles possible. That changed the shock angle and now they aren't in an alignment with the bracket that suits me. I'm going to change to a ball bearing mounting to eliminate any bind while it's apart.

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/a...kUpdate014.jpg
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/a...kUpdate012.jpg
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/a...kUpdate007.jpg
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/a...kUpdate003.jpg

The front springs show sings of coil bind. As you can see, the collars are farther up the housing than I realized. I think it's a combination of a soft front spring and a way to soft rear spring. The moral of the story is the rear shocks were bottoming out and the front springs were coil binding. :D :rolleyes: I may as well have been racing a hay wagon. :rofl:
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/a...kUpdate017.jpg
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/a...kUpdate016.jpg

P.S. It's a little dirty under there....:_paranoid

That's all good stuff Todd! Good find and I know you'll have a good fix for it.

Keeping my fingers crossed for you that the changes work in your favor!


:thumbsup:

is this with both wheels compressed the same? if so, you may want to leave a little more travel so that you can have a little more bump travel in turns.

ex. your pinion could touch when both wheels are fully compressed, but you can then move one wheel up and one down without moving the pinion location (same as a turn). if you set the max when the center of your housing touches the crossmember or trunk floor and your axle tubes, tires, brackets etc. dont, youre giving up a little bump travel.

you probably already took this into consideration though.

What is your front motion ratio?

That's an interesting point and I didn't think of it. I did measure it with both shocks bottomed. If there is one thing I've learned building this car, it's to leave yourself more room than you think! I really hope the extra .5" of travel and the new spring rate keep it from bottoming out under accel!

I really like how you did your breather set up and I would like to do some thing like this to my Dad's car. What type of hose did you use and what size? Is it -12?

Thanks,
Jon

Hey Todd,

The accusump has me curious, do you have to manually open the valve with the yellow handle before every start up and close it before you shut the engine off every time you shut it down?

With the engine off if you open the valve do you know how long it will take for all the oil in the accumulator to discharge?

Do you ever pre charge with air through the shrader valve or is that only if you forget to close the valve before shut down?

Thanks Rich

Todd,

FYI make sure you inspect your shocks well. I bottomed out my varishocks and they were damaged. Look closely at the top of shock closer nut, where the shaft enters the shock. A shock that has bottomed out can leak and or have damaged internals. Check the DSE shocks for any fatigue due to coil bind, as most likely the shock body threads and upper spring adapter took a high load.

Matt

Hey Todd, whose core support bars are you using?http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/a...toShoot041.jpg

Need to find a set to replace my stockers that like to leak stuff out of them:
http://i328.photobucket.com/albums/l...teryGoo002.jpg

Think its some hot tank fluid that got inside them and likes to leak out on hot days. Since I hot tanked them before I had em painted :( (done it like 2-3 times now).

John, I used -12 and the low profile fitting on the valve cover is an Earls piece. The hose and 45 is a jegs brand. Don't mix brands in pressure applications. Make sure the valve cover fittings are shrouded and not at the front or back of the cover. I've seen to many guys make that mistake. Where is your oil under accel and braking? This set up has worked fantastic.

Rich, I leave the valve off on the street. It's always charged with 3 qts of oil and 6 psi on the dry side of the piston. It takes around 5 seconds to discharge all the oil. I will from time to time mix up the oil to remove the moisture. I usually open the valve slowly with the engine running. I've got a road race pan on the engine so it's just insurance on the race track. It's 3 extra qts of cooling capacity as well.

Matt, I looked at them and they seem OK. I'll double check them. The varishocks had mild seapage. My LF DSE had seapage while the RF is dry. 5k and a dozen races. Seems pretty par for the course. Looking forward to some reasonable spring rates!

Ed, these are the black anodized twist machine braces. Very happy with them from fitment to build quality.

Cool, thanks for the info Todd.

Thanks,
Jon

x2 :thumbsup:

Todd
I also have a question about your valve cover/breather system. I also have fabricated valve covers with no holes in them, how do you fill the oil? And what brand breather.catch can are you using?
Thanks
Mike

Mike, I just unscrew one of the AN fittings and I have a long funnel that fits in the opening perfectly. They are Moroso tanks.