Great Job on the Tow Hooks Todd. I realized tonight everytime I strap my car down I'm on top of my brake lines. I'll have to do something.

I sure like this car! :thumbsup:

I'm guessing for what you do with the car even going to a 4-point REAL harness would be a HUGE improvement on the track! :yes:

If your gonna be fast, and do alot of track days with your car, you will find the limit and go off track and hopefully not into something hard.
I would try to make a 5th point work even if its over the front of the seat.

Can't you have the interior shop that did the car slot the seat for the 5th belt?

A 5th belt is almost a must.Without it when you pull down on the shoulder belts the lap belt will be pulled up..That 5th belt helps keep the lap belt where it belongs.

Gotcha, that makes perfect sense.

Anthony, come on bro. I have done a little of my own work in this 4000 page thread. Shouldn't you be working on something...:unibrow:

Sorry Bro - I meant to say the shop that stitched up the interior...we all know you have done most of the build! :thumbsup: :cheers:
Anyways, I remember you being very happy with their work. I would think they could make it happen for less money that a new seat?

Yeah..... he's done some of it two and three times! :unibrow: :rofl:




I've done stuff on some of my junk more than that and still haven't gotten it right!:faint:

I'm not getting new seats. I didn't even think about needing the hole for the jock strap.

Greg, I'm man enough to admit my mistakes...:lol:

Did you read my full post?

I've got more "used" (barely) parts on the shelf than I have on my cars! Each one of them a mistake... or -- as I tell some people -- "they've been upgraded". :lol:

Greg, we're in the same boat. I was talking about all these other liars on the site. :unibrow:

Agree totally....

So many people just make excuses... or choose to just "live with it" whatever "it" is.


I often think - when reading or sharing on here - that "I just do hot rods" -- they don't have to be "proven" in a track or auto X situation etc.... and I think about how much stuff I've had to just re-do... and that's just for "street driven crap"! If I had to actually make it perform.... :wow: Well.... I just don't even want to think about it.

I've climbed behind the wheel of buddies hot rods/restorations/whatever... after they've just upgraded to big disc system ---- and thought I wasn't going to be able to stop AT ALL.... and they're happy as hell with this! Just the fact that they tossed the parts on there is all they can concern themselves with. Then I get out and they say "what do you think"? And of course, I tell them. Then we set about trying to solve what's wrong. But it's amazing how steep the learning curve is... and trying to make a track car "great" -- is even steeper! I give huge kudos to all those willing to tackle this challenge. :thumbsup:

if you dont want to run the 5th, the schroths dont need the 5th point like a traditional harness. watch the crash test videos and you'll see what i mean. they have a little extra trick up their sleeves. but, the videos do only show the car being crashed one way. id love to see some more to prove their idea.

Todd, I remembered to snap a couple shots of the cross bar harness attachments. Be warned though, my camera died, so these are some of those dreaded Blackberry pics.

http://i366.photobucket.com/albums/o...115-1549-1.jpg
http://i366.photobucket.com/albums/o...10115-1548.jpg

Matt

I agree with Jake, last year I ran a new harness and did not install the 5th belt. It was a mistake, as mentioned you can not cinch the belts tight around your hips.

Also, when you get into more road racing sheet happens, adrenaline rush :willy: can play with common sense at times. :cheers: Experience will teach you the limits of yourself and car, generally my fastest lap times are right after an incident.

Oh and personal preference is to wrap the belts around the shoulder bar, I think it looks cleaner and takes a bolt / tab / weld failure out of the equation.

Hey Todd,

I like the new tie hooks and would like to copy you, if that is ok.

Did you go to a dealer, or wrecking yard for them. What would I ask for, or what model are they from?

Thanks for any help you can give me.

I definitely haven't found the limit of my car and especially myself. I just don't have enough track time. I've road raced 3 times and may have 40 laps under my belt. Many of those at less than full speed. The car has been set up different everytime as well. The closest I've come to the limit is at RTTC last year. The practice session the day before let me learn the track and the lines. I was still pumping brakes before every corner and it was a horsepower track which let me run the 3rd fastest time behind Pozzi and Mathews. I was on R888's but there was more left... Once I switched to street tires and disconnected the rear sway bar, the car lost it's handle. The recent spring change on all four corners has brought the feel back to the car. I really think the R compounds and rear sway bar was covering up the deficiency in spring rate. Finding the limit at Spring Mountain is hazardous to my cars health. :unibrow: The desert out there is brutal. Ask Larry.... I need to find me a track with grassy meadows. I was planning a private lesson at Spring Mountain befor RTTC but I doubt I'll make it. Time is something I don't have alot of anymore. I just have to accept my fate as a weekend warrior along with most of the rest of the racers at these events. The car has felt fantastic on my two recent desert hail mary's. I've been working on rpm matching and hole shots. I'm looking forward to the events this year.

Mike, I don't mind. I can't figure out who I bought my hooks from. Go on ebay and type in BMW Tow Hook. You'll get a bunch of the same type of stuff. My configuration wouldn't work with 17" wheels. It would need to be more inboard.

So.... when are you getting a new seat? lol

When I build a different car...:lol:

Todd, I think you car is great. No one is ever happy with performance. As soon as one level is reached it's on to the next one and so forth. Pro street is way worse, all they have is times and no real enjoyement outside of the little white lines.

Thanks Stuart. Don't get me wrong, I don't have any intention of heading down this path and starting from scratch anytime soon. I like my car and have few regrets. I still think it's capable of running with anyone with more tuning and a better driver. :lol:

:D :lol:
That is a great car Todd. Rips up the auto-x and can still grab the groceries as well.:cheers:

Oh gawd that's funny! And -- it's the best most cost effective change a guy could make to his car!!!!!!

You want a great time? Just have MARY POZZI flog the beast!


This, of course, goes for almost all of us (except guys like The Stig and Stielow) -- so I'm not picking on my buddy Todd here.... just sayin' --- it does take a bunch of skill to put these cars up top... and the more power etc a guy has -- I personally think - the more skill it takes to really be on top of it. Mary has proven this time and time again.... she can take a "lesser" car and wax everyone else. I'm not sure how the hell she does it -- but she does!
I wish I had talent like that... but I have neither the cars nor the talent.

Looks like you have your car pretty well sorted out now, was just curious on what you would have done differently. I just bought my steering u-joints and got the vibration reducing one. Wasn't sure if I needed them till you made a comment on that so that's why I ask.

Greg, you get wood on the ball once and a while. :unibrow: Getting the most out of a car with 666 hp is no easy feat. These recent desert hail marys remind me of just how insanely fast this car accelerates. My lack of road racing skills doesn't keep the engine in it's optimum RPM range. At the Optima Challenge I was leaving it in 3rd gear going onto the front and back straight. It needed to be in 2nd. That would've made a considerable difference. That's why I've been working on rpm matching. My car is really hard to heel toe. In fact, I've been practicing timing with just the gas and clutch. I've got to work onthe primary squirter a little yet. Autocross is another animal. I rarely shift out of 2nd gear.

Jason, if I knew then what I know now...:unibrow: Pretty sure I should be charging a consulting fee of some sort around here. :lol:

Floating rear end or a floating rear caliper(Good bye knock back) I've swapped axle and bearings, shimmed bearings, and switched master cylinders to make it so I don't pump brakes on the track. I still have knockback, it's just managable in all situations now.

4-7 cam swap (Pretty sure my harmonic vibration between 2650-2950 is induced by the extra crank stroke/the firing order change is supposed to smooth out conventional small/big blocks) Definitely an educated guess. The only nuisance now is in 5th in that range. The rubber passenger mount and steering knuckle almost eliminated it completely in 1-4 BOTH engines have had it.

Found Jason Pettis at Pettis Performance the first go round. Jason builds one hell of an engine and really gives a damn.

Rubber mount the drivetrain completely. I know a factory interlocking mount won't cut it on the drivers side. Adapt say a ZR1 motor mount.

Use more GM parts. They are reasonable priced and more servicable.

DSE quadralink- I've spent way to much time making this g bar work. (Moving shock mounts, springs, end links, shock travel)

T56 magnum- I'd slice the tunnel and make it fit along with running extremely small working angles. 1-2 degrees. I'll end up with a modified 600 or RS 600 eventually. The stock tko 600 is a workhorse but it shifts like a school bus. :D

Lighter weight- Aluminum hood, no sub box, elinimate the back seat, etc

Install a console

Seats that allow a 5 point harness

Clear bra from day 1

Tinted the factory glass-Aftermarket fits like shiat

Spent less money:rofl: :rofl: I coud've cut some corners here and there. I've got way to much money in this car. It's really easy to get sucked into this hobby and think you must have all the newest most expensive stuff. (Tail lights, hinges, fender braces, aluminum block:faint: ) At the end of the day, you don't need all the newest highest priced stuff to compete in these events or drive from point a to b.

With all that being said, I have no regrets. This is my first real rodeo building a car from scratch. I thought I was one hell of a mechanic before this project started. When I worked on cars for a living, I liked drivability the best because it came down to trouble shooting and finding a solution. Working the bugs out of the car and using it has really been the funnest part of the build for me.

Todd, you have paved the way for a lot of guys on here with all the information you have shared, especially me. That last post you made about what you would do different is one of the most valuable posts made to someone like me----you are one of the guys actually out there doing road courses, auto Xing and driving the car. The comments you make, the products you use, your write up of how they've worked (good or bad) really means something to me--and obviously they do to others as well. It ultimately helps guys like me to buy right the first time, thus enjoying the car more. Not sure anyone has ever said this to you, but thank you for sharing those experiences with us here as they have helped me immensly! My build plan for the car over the next 2 years has and will continue to change based on details you've listed here and conversations we have had. Thanks for the honest assesment and sharing your feedback here---it's that kind of information that really makes this site a great place.

Based on how much money i've saved thus far, and the fact that I love your "Payback" more than most, i'm thinking of renaming mine "Refund". :lol:

Doug

Todd,

You sound a little down, but you shouldn't be. You have built a great car and you have the raw talent to wheel it. Your willingness to share your ups and downs has been a great asset to the community. If I could offer you any advice (having personally been humbled by some of the best), you might want to consider an advanced driving school to refine your talents -- one little technique from someone who has seen it all can do wonders -- and a professional evaluation of your final suspension set-up (spring rates, shock set-up, roll centers, etc) might be beneficial (Dick Guldstrand comes to mind). You are on the verge of putting an "old school" hot rod on top of the tech-y LS crowd, and I'm rooting for you!

Pappy

Beneficiary wouldn't be bad either. :unibrow:

As a newbie around here, and not to take anything from Todd, Doug's complimentary comments could apply to numerous members threads and posts. I've had my car 22 years now and in the last few weeks of diligently reading Camaro build and mod threads I've picked up some very valuable insights that will save trial and error expense and deliver a respectable performance level.

I sincerely appreciate the caliber of Lateral G's members and the quantity and quality of their information. Thank you all, hopefully I'll be able to contribute as well.

PS - The good natured ribbing and humor is another benefit. :thumbsup:

You get the award for taking the least and making the most out of it. I've learned a thing or two from you as well. :cheers: I'll call you soon....

I was about to pull the trigger on a private lesson at Spring Mountain on the 4th last week. I'm just tired of spending money. I'd like to retire before I need diapers. :rofl: Appreciate all the kind words. Hurry up and get that car moving. We need to tear up the track together. Let me know when your vette is back in town, I've got to come over and check it out.

You're right, I haven't learned everything from trial and error. Many have paved the way before me and are always willing to help. Guys like Frank, Jody, Greg, are always willing to help with tech.

Todd - your thread and reviews are so detailed and technical sometimes I have no idea what is going on, and it gets me going on a path of researching and learning something new.. such as knockback when you started posting about it. Now I can say I know what that is and that I will be joining you in having it. :D

Good stuff man. Keep it rolling and see ya soon.

Doug - how about "Free Lunch"? :thumbsup: :D

I was about to write the same thing but Doug beat me to it. Many many thanks for all the information and honesty you've shared with all of us via this thread Todd. It's REALLY appreciated. Now that I have a Mr. 12370850 sitting in my garage, I'm sure I'll be picking your brain a few more times starting next year. I plan to run fuel injection and a hydraulic cam that's a little more modest than yours. Would be happy with HP/TQ in the low 600's. Hopefully I might actually be able to share some info with you one day too, although you've always been ahead of my curve. My build won't start until next year though(because I'm tired of spending money too!). This year I gotta just run what I brung.

Look forward to sharing a beer with you after RTTC. :cheers:

Really, congrats man. I'd put it in the living room until you're ready to build that bad boy. :lol: The wife will never notice. I'm onboard, let's talk big blocks next month. :thumbsup:

Yah, I'm thinking of putting a piece of glass over it and it'd be the best coffee table ever. Bottom side up so everyone can see those engraved main caps. :lol: Yep, next month we're talking big blocks. Sounds perfect. :thumbsup:

I also wanted to thank you Todd, your reviews, actual performance on track and answers to my questions helped me decide on my new rear suspension setup. :thumbsup:

Don't worry anout the money, more can always be made. :unibrow:

I love you man.

You're dead meat, Cassanova. :unibrow:

hell i just wanna thank for being an ass and making funny post!lol

o yeah and for giving me an almost complete bb!!
thanks bud!!

Not sure which I've spent more money on in the last 4 years, cars or beer. :lol: I've had a ton of fun making wise cracks on this thread and about everyone elses on the board.

That short block wasn't free, I'm still waiting for you to show up and mow my lawn. :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Seriously, the friends I've made(you guys) and all the bull****ting has been just as much fun as building the car. Let's get back to cars before our man cards are revoked. ;)

Sounds like a good idea, I was starting to wonder about you guys :_paranoid