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Looking great True!!
Don't worry about the parts if you break, alot of it was off the shelf. Heims are standard and I believe the bell crank came from Fay's. You gonns paint the entire underside gray? |
It looks very good. If it drives half as good as it looks you'll be dialed....
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Love it True! Welcome back :thumbsup:
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http://www.twonkhammer.com/wp-conten...d-Facepalm.jpg Nah, the black that's on it now is just Eastwood primer to cover the bare metal from where I scraped off the old nasty undercoat. It'll get seam sealer where needed and maybe a bit of Lizard Skin to take the edge off the heat and noise. That's it. I've always kinda thought that smoothing firewalls was a bit of a pointless expense but body working the underside of a car is like scented toilet paper. It's just gonna get crap all over it so why? |
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Right now, that is NOT a compliment. But :thankyou: |
Hey true don't forget about Carl Chicca's '69 Camaro also running the LD set up. Probably the fastest '69 Camaro on a road course.
Glad to see the huge progress :thumbsup: |
That's a great looking 3 link set up. It should serve you many good times on the autocross and track. I like the way the lower link bars are skewed slightly inward toward the driveshaft center line of the car, giving the total 3 link system better articulation. Nice set-up with the Watts link in the back.
Great work and looking forward to seeing what you do with the front. |
True,
I see some issues in your photos. 1. The front upper link mount can hit the driveshaft if it intrudes past the tunnel on the left side. I had to trim it on Penny & OLC. 2. The brake line hose anchors need to be moved to the front of the housing. If you use the tabs on top, they may get pinched against the frame rail. They did on Bad Penny. 3. The shock hose fitting will be super close to the exhaust pipes. Three options, notch the frame rail & put the hose outward, notch the crossmember more inboard & move the pipes in a bit. Run 2.5" tail pipes & dimple them in near the fitting. You don't want those fittings getting too hot, there are seals in them. O.l.c. Has 3" pipes which are dimpled. |
Thanks for jumping in Dave, appreciate it! In order:
1 - I'm not following you in this 2 - That one I recall on BP. Gotta call Chris' guys and order a set of these: http://i48.tinypic.com/2nb94wx.jpg 3 - Noticed that right away. I'm planning on a 2.5" exhaust anyway to keep the sound in the "I get along with my neighbors" range. Along with that, I'm thinking a heat shield riveted to the trunk floor should do the trick. |
Lookin' good!
Alignment does not seem to be off. The watts will be center of car not center of housing. In line with drive shaft and it has an offset pinion like all 9 inches. Watts will be 2 inches over from center of housing. |
True,
Looks great. What are your plans for the front suspension? Something aftermarket? |
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I can't find a photo of it, but if the front crossmember intrudes into the drive shaft tunnel on the left side, the drive shaft will hit it. So look at the rectangular tube on the left and right sides of the tunnel. If it is not flush, cut it flush and cap it off with another piece of flat steel.
When the watts bell crank is the same height as the drive shaft, it won't move side to side, but as the bell crank rises, it moves a lot more. David |
http://www.themopardude.com/image/34779875.jpg
Still think you should paint it pink. I think that's masculine in some cultures or something. |
Check the shock eye aluminum inserts for binding at full droop & compression. I had to turn down the OD a little.
The brake hose anchors you have may work as long as the hoses run under the housing & not over it. If you have the ATS transmission crossmember, I highly recommend you cut the tunnel & raise it above the trans about an inch. We had Shipka's trans up to the stock tunnel & got by but it was at the limit. I would put a bump stop somewhere to prevent bottoming out the shocks or the axle hitting the frame. There are small stops on the shocks but they are not tall enough to help. |
Thanks for the tribal knowledge David. Adding this stuff to the punch list.
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Amazing amount of fabwork time/skills put into this machine!
Progressing very very nicely. |
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Wow. Thank you very much. The goal from the outset was to do as much of the work as possible myself in this suburban 2-car garage. Obviously that precludes some tasks such as the cage (no room for a bender and no need for one once this car is done) and paint (illegal here) will have to be farmed out. I'm also having the electrical and engine install done by pros. Those systems are too critical and too expensive for trial & error. It has been a lot of work (but satisfying) and a long time (unavoidable) but I appreciate the kind words. Should have another update this week, maybe tomorrow, workload permitting. |
And now, on to front suspension v2.0.
I feel like I need to start with explaining why I felt the change was necessary. I count among my friends James Shipka and David Pozzi. They've worked together for years developing James' 1967 Camaro. When I began my build my intent was to duplicate his efforts. His car and mine share the same Lateral Dynamics 3-Link rear suspension. I followed with great interest their efforts to get the most out of the factory subframe with the ATS Chicane coil over conversion and AFX spindles. If you've followed that car at all you know that they came up against a number of limitations with respect to the ability to fit larger tires and do so in a fashion that didn't negatively impact geometry. Eventually, David created a solution to address both. David decided that he didn't want to duplicate the fix for me and I totally understand and respect that decision. So without a commercially available fix to the limitations of the AFX spindle I was at a decision point. Live with the limitations, change to an aftermarket subframe or change front suspension suppliers. The first option seemed like not much of an option at all and the second was a hit to the budget for the project that I had a hard time justifying especially given the sweat-equity I had built into the factory subframe. When Ridetech released their new TruTurn solution I quickly realized that what they'd arrived at was very similar to what David had done on James' car and I began to explore that solution further. Full disclosure, I was a critic of Ridetech when they first entered this market with what then were mainly air sprung solutions. After seeing the effort they've put into developing legitimate high performance suspension solutions over the last few years I can say that though my criticisms may have been valid at the time, they no longer are. What sealed the deal though was the addition to Ridetech's offerings of a true 3-way adjustable damper. Developed in partnership with Fox Racing these are truly top notch pieces. In a former career I worked closely with engineers at Fox on development of a number of bicycle suspension dampers and I'm well aware of the depth of their experience, the talent of their engineering staff and the resources they can employ to develop a solution to a unique challenge. If you aren't aware (you probably are) Fox in addition to being a leading supplier of motorcycle, bicycle and snowmobile suspension is among the leaders in developing cutting edge off-road truck dampers as well. With data and creativity coming from those various areas of expertise and the knowledge and resources available I had no doubt that the solution to be co-developed with Fox and Ridetech would be a good one. The results found on James car proved out that assumption and I was sold. http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/r...psq9pbo9nb.jpg Further, I want to point out the stellar customer service provided by Ridetech both pre and post-sale. Darren Schilling is RT's lead outside sales guy but he isn't some drone taking orders and writing down credit card numbers. The man absolutely knows the product and is an enthusiast of the first order. As an anecdote; while installing the front suspension I arrived at point in the install where the instructions for the TruTurn system installation and the spindle installation had a bit of a disconnect. So at roughly 6:30PM on a Friday night I tapped out a short email to him on my iPhone, hit send and went in the house fully expecting to get an answer sometime on Monday. I picked up my phone about an hour later to make a call and saw that Darren had replied to my question. At 9:30PM on a Friday night. Now YMMV on that and I certainly wouldn't tell you to expect Ridetech to always be as responsive, after working hours, on a Friday but I think it speaks to the dedication of the staff that Bret has built. So, on to the install..... The Ridetech TruTurn is based on a proprietary spindle that has a built-in drop of (IIRC) 2" and is modified in terms of the height of the spindle as well. It does however use a factory pattern hub and brake mounting matching that of a '68 Camaro disk brake spindle so any brake bracket or hub that would work on a factory spindle will work on the RT spindle but you get the improved geometry. http://www.ridetech.com/store/images.../0/spindle.jpg Further, the RT system employs a custom steering arm and drag link offset bracket that the corrects for the steering geometry which is altered by the steering arm. If you look closely at the system and the changes made by David to James' car you will see the similarities in how the two solutions were arrived at. http://www.ridetech.com/images/categ...rn-diagram.jpg All the above is designed to work with RT's control arms. The first thing I noticed upon opening the massive pile of boxes was how well the stuff is packaged. The Samsonite gorilla (some of you are too young to know what I'm talking about here, youtube it) couldn't have hurt the contents of those boxes. I filled two entire trash cans with the styrofoam packing material used to protect the parts. The second thing that struck me was how bloody nice the machining and fitment of the parts was. http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/r...ps167cecf2.jpg http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/r...ps1c8c544e.jpg http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/r...ps55ce0af3.jpg http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/r...psh0jw4ht4.jpg The attention to detail on this stuff is apparent. The install kit for the shocks comes with a variety of bushings that will allow fitment to darn near any application. http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/r...ps49e95793.jpg ....darn near. Because the Chicane coilover mount has one shock mount stub permanently affixed I had to machine my own bushing for one side. The means of doing so violated every safety discussion my HS shop teacher ever had and I shant disclose it here. It wasn't particularly difficult....it was just unsafe. It'd have been easier, and safer, with a proper lathe or mill...but I have neither. At any rate between RT's supplied parts and a bit of ingenuity (cough) I made it work. http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/r...psc54b256e.jpg The spring perch and pre-load collars fit perfectly and adjustments are buttery smooth given the precision machining of the shock bodies. http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/r...ps2f2fd1a9.jpg ...and the shocks come with top notch springs from Hyperco. Tough to beat those. I'm starting with baseline rates of 700 front and 300 rear and as I'm sure you noticed in previous posts, I used the RT shocks in the rear as well.... http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/r...psa21f0458.jpg Next item up was RT's front sway bar assembly. Again, really superb machining and excellent fit of all the parts. Absolutely no effort on my part required to get stuff to fit. Everything went in just right, the first time w/o any form of modification needed. Given the variations in production tolerances on 40+ year old cars this is kinda astonishing. http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/r...psba736e3c.jpg http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/r...ps540a994b.jpg http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/r...ps5509f18d.jpg ....image limit break.... |
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The control arms are just really burly pieces. I regret that I didn't take any pics of them prior to assembly so here are a couple from RT's website: http://www.ridetech.com/store/images...8f7435350a.jpg The lowers equipped with delerin bushings are built like a bridge abutment and fit perfectly into the spring pockets. The uppers, also delerin equipped, feature a clever means of adjusting caster. Rather than stacking up a crapload of shims to get to the caster setting you desire, the RT cross shaft is milled out to accept one of three slugs that are centered or offset to the front or rear. This provides for three much smaller adjustment ranges for caster w/o a cludgey stack of shims. [Note: I do in fact have a crapload of shims there. Seemed like the best place to put them so I didn't lose them before I got the car back on the ground and can do a rough alignment.] http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/r...ps5a4cc4ee.jpg As you can probably tell, I'm really excited about the shocks. Having Fox practically in my back yard (35min drive) is a nice bonus as well. And again, the fit and finish of the parts was top notch, service from RT before and after the sale has been stellar. I couldn't be happier at this point and I'm really looking forward to developing this solution to work in harmony with the Lateral Dynamics 3-link. Next up.....My UPS guy is now out on disability.....here's why.... http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/r...pslxkwspm0.jpg |
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But you will have some great braking force & no overheating rotor issues. :) |
I love the Ridetech suspension pieces. Well designed & good quality.
I agree on the quality of the Ridetech shocks. We have had many sets apart, disecting, dyno testing & reworking the curves for track use. I've worked with dozens of shocks brands & am impressed with how well designed & built the Ridetech TA shock is. While there are better performing true racing shocks (for more money) I feel the RT TA is the best value in street/track shocks. I'm making their triple adjustable shocks standard on my new AutoX-Star front suspensions. Of course we revalve them with a high zero number/mean digressive valving curve for autocross & track use that Ron Myers named "secret sauce". :cheers: |
Looking good True. Great write up. Looking forward to seeing this one completed. I see another NorCal track car being added to the list. :thumbsup:
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Well, I won't be taking it off the street, but it will see a good bit of track and auto-x time....if we still have places to auto-x.
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I might've named it, but the technically correct name is the "Ron Sutton Secret Sauce"...copyright/patent pending ... :cheers: |
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Nice parts and nice work, True. Thanks for the write up.
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This is such a pretty package. My own was not so bashful, but I did copy it from someone else...
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How's it going True? :)
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