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-   -   LSA Powered 69 Camaro -"Lou's Change" (https://www.lateral-g.net/forums/showthread.php?t=37183)

syborg tt 04-06-2013 06:50 AM

Very Nice. I bet your getting excited

Jay Hilliard 04-06-2013 07:08 AM

Nice job! Car looks great with that LS9. What are your plans for paint or do you plan on wrapping the car?

Lous69 04-06-2013 07:43 AM

Thanks for the compliments.

Yes, it is exciting seeing all the parts coming together.

The car will be painted.

We have some one off design touches coming including a 3D "printed" grill.

It's looking like the stock SS hood is not going to clear the LSA engine cover so we are cooking up a very cool custom hood design that is subtle enough to be timeless but also effective in giving us the needed clearance.

It certainly helps having a son who is an automotive designer and does this sort of thing everyday.

Jay Hilliard 04-06-2013 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lous69 (Post 474038)
Thanks for the compliments.

It's looking like the stock SS hood is not going to clear the LSA engine cover so we are cooking up a very cool custom hood design that is subtle enough to be timeless but also effective in giving us the needed clearance.

It certainly helps having a son who is an automotive designer and does this sort of thing everyday.

You could always raise the area on the SS hood to allow clearance and keep those SS stacks. :D

V8TV 04-06-2013 04:09 PM

The hood is going to be slick. Looking forward to building it!

frankv11 04-06-2013 05:59 PM

Excellent job and moving along pretty quickly

parsonsj 04-07-2013 08:45 AM

I love this car!

Can you elaborate on how you were able to size the charge coolant pump? Does Meziere directly support the LSA? Or did you have to do the engineering?

Lous69 04-07-2013 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by parsonsj (Post 474162)
I love this car!

Can you elaborate on how you were able to size the charge coolant pump? Does Meziere directly support the LSA? Or did you have to do the engineering?

Thanks for your interest and appreciation John.

Unfortunately, I don't have any fancy engineering calculations to share.

To determine what to use for the intercooler heat exchanger and pump, I scoured the various forums and found pieces of information that "guided" me to our pieces as follows:

This posting gave me an understanding of how the CTS-V intercooling set up compares to other current GM offerings like the ZR1's:

http://caddyinfo.com/wordpress/inter...lsa-sts-v-lc3/

This article gave me some idea of how the ZL1 intercooling system and top hat compared to the CTS-V LSA set up: (interesting how they basically used a pump from the Chevy Volt running on increased voltage)

http://www.gmhightechperformance.com...1/viewall.html

This posting had some data on aftermarket pumps:

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=233555

Here are the specs of the heat exchanger we ordered: (we actually sourced ours through C&R along with our 2nd Gen. radiator module)

http://www.gettorq.com/store/chevrol...nger-fans.html

Here are the specs of the intercooler pump we ordered. I talked to the Meziere rep at Sema and got comfortable that this pump would last a long time based on the fact that it is used as the primary engine coolant pump in other applications.

http://www.gettorq.com/store/chevrol...pump-torq.html

Hopes this helps.

P.S. You will be happy to know we are going to be drilling a hole back by our battery to install a II Much Fabrication fuel tank vent!

Lous69 05-19-2013 11:33 PM

We have decided that in order to gain some more clearance between the engine and the hood we are going to make a custom cowl hood that actually accepts the same carbon fiber insert that is used on the modern ZL1.

We expect this route will also help keep things substantially cooler under the hood as well.

His new rendering shows the same custom grille he designed but uses the cowl and carbon fiber insert from a modern ZL1.

You'll notice the center hump in the middle of the stock 69 front valence panel looks a little "forced" as it transitions into the cowl.

http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/...psa191ac33.jpg

To remedy that he softened the hump making it look right without bringing undue attention to what is going on. It should look nice and clean when done.

Since the new ZL1 hood is aluminum, we chose to fabricate a facsimile of the ZL1 cowl out of steel that would except the carbon fiber insert and then be grafted into a steel 69 cowl hood.

Back to the car, the final metal fabrication and gap work is underway. All the mock up, electrical and plumbing work is almost complete too.

The car should soon be going to body and paint!! We're hoping like heck we can drive it this season.

http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/...psa6ff7f3f.jpg


http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/...psef3905cc.jpg

http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/...ps246e8a9a.jpg

http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/...pscfa7ccfe.jpg

Rick D 05-20-2013 04:56 AM

Lou, love the new rendering of the hood!! Can't wait see you guys pull it off, love the grill also!:king:

syborg tt 05-20-2013 10:02 AM

Looks really nice and I love the hood. I am not sure if you are away but ASC Composites makes the replica ZL1 Scoop

http://www.acscomposite.com/store/#!...26&id=15889812

http://images-cdn.ecwid.com/images/87523/71546917.jpg

Lous69 05-20-2013 10:15 AM

Thanks Syborg TT, for the tip on the ACS aftermarket version of the ZL1 hood scoop.

We think we're going to opt for the exposed carbon fiber look of the factory scoop.

Unfortunately, GM is pretty proud of that scoop and is pricing it accordingly.

syborg tt 05-20-2013 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lous69 (Post 481338)
We think we're going to opt for the exposed carbon fiber look of the factory scoop.

There is a guy on Camaro5 that makes a full carbon version at 1/4 the price of GM's

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=194371

214Chevy 05-20-2013 10:43 AM

I was thinking of doing something like this on my Chevelle. I'm watching.....:idea:

eric1967 05-20-2013 02:57 PM

This thing is killer. Where are you at in St. Louis? Keep the pics coming. Thanks Eric

66fury 05-20-2013 04:14 PM

Awesome hood choice!

Lous69 06-07-2013 01:16 PM

Adam at V8TV did a terrific job fabricating the hood modifications and the core support cover. He is rather humble and was sure to give a lot of credit to his team mates, including Nathan who also knows how to convince metal to do amazing things.

Here are some pics of his work making templates and building the custom hood:

http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/...psd5f7b73c.jpg

http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/...pse5792dab.jpg

http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/...ps841fb835.jpg

http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/...psc02ac8d8.jpg

http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/...psfff168f7.jpg

http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/...ps53957476.jpg


http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/...psd2e3dfe2.jpg

http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/...ps1cfd6114.jpg

And here is the result of his skilled handy work!!!!

http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/...psb3ebbd3e.jpg

http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/...psde126b06.jpg

You will notice that the rib that runs down the center of the valance panel and hood were also removed to make the new hood look like it belongs. We're really happy with the way it turned out.

Next he tackled the core support cover. Here is the rendering he started with:
http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/...ps8bc5696b.jpg

A little siphering....

http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/...s5d3bc63e.jpeg

And bingo!
http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/...psad137426.jpg

http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/...ps6c977e00.jpg

http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/...psdb214857.jpg

Rick D 06-07-2013 01:43 PM

Looking great Lou!! So how much longer until we see some paint on this bad boy?

tubbed69 06-07-2013 02:58 PM

Lou that works looks great,really like that core support cover and hood

syborg tt 06-07-2013 03:33 PM

I am so envious as Kenny and I were going to do this to my car. We both decided that let's keep my car simple this time around and when we do v2 for 2014 Good Guys I will without a doubt have a hood styled just like this. This is Freaking Awesome and I am so happy you guys were the first to do it.

On top of the hood. You have picked two of my favorite people in the industry and I am certain you are going to love this car.

http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/...psb3ebbd3e.jpg

V8TV 06-07-2013 03:59 PM

The guys in the shop have been doing a fantastic job with Lou's car. The metal work is nearly finished, and the exhaust is being built now. Then it goes to body / paint.

Thanks so much for the kind words, the hood does look awesome, with kudos going to the crew and Dan Steinhauser for the amazing design that blends the two seamlessly. Lou is right, the hood will be a signature element of the car. This one won't need to be a rocket ship to be cool, but it will have performance to back up the good looks!

214Chevy 06-07-2013 04:05 PM

Very nice. Love the look of it.

Rick D 06-07-2013 06:47 PM

That hood is freaking awesome :king: great job Kevin!

V8TV 06-07-2013 07:52 PM

Thanks Rick, but I had very little to do with the hood itself. We have a great crew in the shop, and Adam really worked hard to make this come to life.

Greg from Aus 06-08-2013 12:27 AM

That hood is the best I have seen.

:king:

WILWAXU 06-08-2013 01:58 AM

Yup. Hood looks great!

Lous69 06-15-2013 08:22 AM

These forums have allowed us to speed up so much of our learning that I feel compelled to "give back" in order to help others the same way.

Dave Mikels, (Mikels Performance Engineering) works closely with Brian Thomson (Thomson Automotive Engines) to create serious but dependable Horsepower for the likes of Mark Stielow (Red Devil, Mayhem, Camaro XV).

That is impressive but what I find most admirable is that Dave and Brian have not let their success go to their heads as it relates to responding to customers like me and all our newbie questions.

What I mean by that is I was impressed when I called their business and they answered the phone personally.

They each put a high priority on first learning what I wanted in my application vs. just rattling off what they have to sell off their shelf.

They did not make me feel stupid when I asked them the same questions I know they have answered a thousand times before.

Unfortunately, similar businesses that have enjoyed as much success as Dave and Brian have evolved into a take it or leave it approach with new customers.

Dave and Brian are obvious choices for me. I spend my hard earned money carefully. I'm actually proud to be one of their new customers.

Thanks to Dave's knowledge, we are getting a lot more than just a performance tune matched to select Thomson engine upgrades.

We're also getting seamless integration of PWM fan control, Reverse Lockout without a need for a separate switch and Vintage Air A/C.

In case it helps your own builds, here is the Lou's Change set up and what Dave is doing for us right now:

ENGINE:
We are starting with a brand new LSA crate motor
We swapped out the CTS-V Intercooler top hat with a new ZL1 top hat. (I'm pretty sure that was an idea Brian suggested to me when he talked to me early on in the build. I had no idea they could be swapped out so easily)

ENGINE MODS:
Supercharger Pulley change (2.56:1 to 3:1)
Cam Swap (Thomson Spec.)
Valve springs (Thomson Spec.)
Injectors (Thomson Automotive Spec.)

ENGINE CONTROLLER:
We are using the GM Performance Parts E67 LSA controller that came with our LSA crate engine.

FUEL SYSTEM:
We have the full Vaporworx system installed in our DSE tank complete with the fuel pump and controller they provide (rated for up to 1000 HP).
We will use Dave's advised 450kPa fuel pressure

ENGINE COOLING:
We have a C&R cooling module along with the 2 fans they provided (rated for up to 1000 HP)
We have installed 2 brand new PWM fan control modules like those used in the C6 Corvette.

INTERCOOLING:
We are running a Mazierre 55 GPM intercooler pump
We are using the same intercooler heat exchanger used in the GT500 complete with fans.

AIR CONDITIONING:
We are using the Vintage Air Generation 4 A/C system
We are using a Sandene Compressor
We have installed a GM A/C pressure switch
We are still using the Vintage Air Trinary switch to the control compressor

TRANSMISSION:
Brand new T56 Magnum
We have a Vehicle Speed Sensor installed and connected to the VSS lead that was included in the GMPP engine harness as purchased.

REAR END:
Ford 9 inch with 3.7 gear ratio

HERE IS WHAT Dave is doing for us:

Installing pin out and a labeled wire for the PWM control module.
Installing pin out and a labeled wire for the GM A/C pressure sensor.
Installing pin out and a labeled wire for reverse lock out.

CAL:
Capture original factory Cal

Enable and program PWM fan control:
- PWM vs. Discreet
- 128 Hz PWM frequency
- 204 degrees engine coolant = 10% duty cycle
- 235 degrees engine coolant = 90% duty cycle

Program fan control parameters for “after run”:
- If engine coolant temp. greater than 235 degrees or A/C pressure greater than 260 psi at key off = 50% duty cycle until engine coolant drops below 230 degrees AND A/C pressure drops below 241 psi.
- Otherwise, fans shut off after 2 minutes regardless of temperatures.

Enable Vehicle Speed Sensor control of reverse lock out.

Reprogram table for AC pressure control of fans. In order to use Vintage Air/ Sandene compressor, need to change table as follows:
- Fans all in at 90% duty cycle at 260 psi as measured by GM A/C pressure sensor.

LSA Engine Performance tune per modifications selected
- Supercharger Pulley change (2.56:1 to 3:1)
- Cam Swap
- Valve springs
- Injectors

I'm suspicious Dave and Brian will have some more suggestions before we're done. I'll post what we learn as we go and report back to validate how it all worked.

Lous69 06-22-2013 12:02 AM

Mock up phase is finally complete!!!

The car is now disassembled again and off to body and paint!!!!

I stopped by to see how things look. Both Kevin and Kelle were off on a business trip so Adam was showing me the work he just completed on the firewall.

He created a recessed area in the firewall to provide a little more engine clearance on the passenger side because the DSE frame and motor mounts position the LSA as far back as possible.

http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/...ps679596e0.jpg

Trevor had relocated the DSE windshield wiper motor and pump to inside the driver side fender so the original mounting location was filled in.

http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/...psc66edfad.jpg


As Adam was showing me his latest work he explained that he was now in the process of going over the entire car, inside and out grinding, welding, and massaging all the fabrication and repair areas to make them undetectable.

He mentioned that as he works, Kelle is constantly inspecting, sticking pieces of yellow tape that explain the things she isn't totally satisfied with yet.

He wasn't complaining at all. It was more like boasting about how thorough they are in their work even though it can be very tedious.

He said it typically takes about four rounds to get Kelle's final stamp of approval.

Of course, as the customer, that was music to my ears.

I read some of the notes on the yellow tape and realized they were things I probably would have missed...... and I'm a real stickler for details.

One of her notes really got my attention:

As I said earlier, the new wiper motor mounting location is under the driver side fender where no one will ever see it. Even so, her little note in that area said "make pretty".

It's comforting to know the people building your car are holding themselves accountable to do top quality work, even in areas no one will ever see.

Thanks to Kelle for setting the V8TV quality standard and thanks to the team for meeting it!!!

http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/...ps8b47c1fd.jpg

syborg tt 06-22-2013 08:00 AM

Okay that's funny note

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lous69 (Post 488474)


waynieZ 06-22-2013 11:51 AM

Lou the car is coming out great. They do very nice work over there. I love the drive train your using. Sweet ride.

MX145 06-22-2013 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by waynieZ (Post 488590)
Lou the car is coming out great. They do very nice work over there. I love the drive train your using. Sweet ride.

X2! Very Cool

Lous69 07-04-2013 11:50 AM

Happy Fourth of July everyone!!

The car is officially in body and paint now!!

The paint booth has been loaded up three times with all the miscellaneous parts and those are all painted now.

The bottom of the body tub is next.

Color is not far away!!

As you relax and enjoy your Holiday, here are some of the latest videos of the build for your viewing pleasure. Kind of like one of those cable channel holiday weekend marathons!!:popcorn2:

So glad all the rust is finally behind us now. For all of you still in the middle of rust repair, stay the course. There is light at the other end of the tunnel.







Here are videos of the mock up for the Detroit Speed QUADRALink and the Wilwood brakes.







ENJOY!!

waynieZ 07-04-2013 08:59 PM

Its coming a long nice Lou.

Lous69 07-13-2013 08:23 AM

Things are coming along. The bodywork has officially begun.
The engine upgrade parts supplied by Thomson Automotive have been installed by Tony, my favorite, fully certified Chevrolet technician. Tony is the only person I would let work on my Z06 and my daily driver.
He takes great pride in everything he does and he loves his work. In fact, everyone I have talked to at Weber Chevrolet in Waterloo, Ill. treats you like they are glad to see you. I have purchased brand new cars from both Mercedes and Lexus. They have nothing over the customer service and attitude I experience in Weber's service department.

Here's Tony looking proud of his work, like the engine is his baby. (Actually, he and his wife are expecting their first real baby very soon!)

http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/...ps4632941b.jpg

While delivering the engine so they could paint it all up nice too, I snapped a few pictures of Nathan and Zach's handywork preparing the body tub for paint.

When I noticed how they are making sure the rockers are perfect all the way around to the floor pan I complimented Nathan. He calmly replied that he has noticed some body men can get a little lazy in those areas and that has always been a pet peeve of his.

http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/...ps78d69435.jpg

I love how the firewall turned out. We had to recess it a bit.

http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/...ps359f2ae5.jpg

http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/...psbb1440e6.jpg

http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/...pse39bca99.jpg

My son Dan assembled the grille he designed and printed in Renntech's 3D printer. He is also a perfectionist when it comes to his craft so he wants to make some final tweaks but it looks like it's going to turn out exactly like he wanted it to. Here's a picture he sent me from his cell phone. We'll post more on that as things progress.


http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/...psb6e19722.jpg

214Chevy 07-13-2013 08:28 AM

Great pics!! Everything looks great. A couple of questions:
1) What update did you do to the engine.
2) What is the custom grill made of...fiberglass, metal, carbon fiber, etc.? (can't tell by the pics)

Lous69 07-13-2013 08:34 AM

Engine upgrades include Cam, valve springs, injectors, pulleys, solid coupling, damper and matching tune by Dave Mikels who works very closely with Brian at Thomson Automotive.

Dave and Brian are great to work with too. They sent the parts overnight delivery just to make sure we could get them installed in time to avoid any delays in body and paint. I especially appreciated their willingness to help us out because their main business is selling complete engines not selling parts.

Dave helped us figure out how to do a lot more with the ECM than just tune it for the performance mods. He also helped us enable things like reverse lock out using vehicle speed sensing, PWM fan control and AC compressor pressure sensing for cooling fan control.

The first grille prototype was printed in ABS plastic.

Rick D 07-13-2013 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lous69 (Post 492889)
Engine upgrades include Cam, valve springs, injectors, pulleys, solid coupling, damper and matching tune by Dave Mikels who works closely with Brian at Thomson Automotive.

The first grille prototype was printed in ABS plastic.

Looks great Lou! Can you explain what you mean by "PRINTED" in ABS plastic??

FETorino 07-13-2013 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick D (Post 492905)
Looks great Lou! Can you explain what you mean by "PRINTED" in ABS plastic??

I remember a while back on Jay Lenos car garage show he had an episode on this stuff. Awesome technology.


Ron in SoCal 07-13-2013 12:10 PM

One of the first of these companies I was exposed to was 3D Systems back in 1986. Back then it was used primarily as product prototyping, and still is. Amazing technology and the indusrty has come a long way very quickly. Today there are forums and downloads for design files. You can make anything from a microscopic piano, to a fully functioning semi-auto.

Lou, your son made a fabulous grill. Can't wait to see it mounted!

Lous69 07-13-2013 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick D (Post 492905)
Looks great Lou! Can you explain what you mean by "PRINTED" in ABS plastic??

The video does a nice job of explaining what 3D printing is overall.

To actually print our grille, Dan used a machine that uses a little different technology.
Instead of a powder bed as shown in the video, the machine Dan uses feeds the plastic of his choice, in the form of a monfilament line, into a heated nozzle that melts it and deposits it in very small droplets, one layer at a time.

It literally "builds" the 3 Dimensional part, one very thin layer at a time. Think of it as a lazor printer that deposits solid plastic instead of colored ink. It just keeps deposting one layer at a time as instructed by the design he puts into it.

To create the design itself, he first scanned a stock 69 Camaro grille with a
hand held, 3D scanner similar to the one in the video above. That gave him a computer model of the stock grille.

Next he replaced portions of the stock design with his own design ideas. His new design is then converted to a CAD file that can provide instructions to the 3D printer.

The grille in the picture is what came out of the 3D printer. It is an actual ABS plastic part that will be finished and used on the car.

Fascinating stuff. We plan to post a video of the entire process from start to finish with the grille in the car.

http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/...psb6e19722.jpg


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