You are not alone.:yes:

You're right Ned! "That's" they best they could come up with?!?! But that just further reinforces my thought that they all are in cahoots!! :willy:

The Republican Party needs to separate itself from:

Religion


What a woman chooses to do with their body


Lilly white rich guys (and I happen to be one of those....)


The Democratic Party needs to separate itself from:


More social programs for "everyone"


More Government is good


Class warfare ideology

It's the same rhetoric every time around on both sides. I agree, you have to change your approach if you want to change your results. It's going to take time to change the past, that's the real problem.

what is the defination of insanity again???

doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different outcome?

:yes:

I tend to think Congress has more power than the President, but those executive orders can be a real thrill and one of the most powerful and longlasting things the Prez can do is nominate US Supreme Court Justices. Of course they have to get Senate approval but the Dems lead there too.

I know we all rag on Congress, and a lot of them are worthy of such, but I do believe they (for the most part) think they are doing what's best for the country. We just all disagree on what's best for the country lots of the time.

I think Mitt was a pretty good candidate. Mitt was probably the most liberal Republican candidate for Prez in the past 100 years, if not more. He still didn't win and I think a more conservative candidate probably would have fared worse.

Something that should be chilling to the Republican Party is the fact that since 1988 they have only won the popular vote one time.

I'll give you a pass on using "manor" where you should have used "manner" right before going into a rant about people misusing words...:rofl:

I don't know how many of you actually watched the Republican primary debates, but asking how many of the candidates believed in evolution with - maybe- one hand raised? Really?

The Republicans used to have intellectual vitality, rigorous arguments and decent positions on the issues. Now they are simply anti-[name your interest] know nothings.

Unless and until the Republicans define themselves, rather than letting Rush, Fox News and the Tea Party define them, they are the 21st century Whigs.

I agree. But let's go a bit further on the Republican side-

As much as they need more of the female vote they need the Hispanic vote even more. This is pure demographics at work here.

The Pubs have a good hold on Texas...but that state has gone from 'red' to 'pink' and in another 10 years or so it's possible that the majority of the Texas population will be latino.

If the Pubs lose Texas it is simply 'game over' in Presidential elections for them. They have to win over the Hispanic vote, and quite frankly I"m suprised it"s such a struggle for them. Hispanics are typically Catholic and have strong family values-which jive with things Republican. But then again when the Repub candidate speaks about 'illegals' and self-return to their country of origin it doesn't bode well for getting votes.

I think its game over now, thats why everyone is so worked up. This election the republicans showed up, there just isn't enough of them to make a difference. Again, I heard this year became the first that more then 50% of the adult population are receiving direct checks from the government(Fed, and state employees, welfare receipiants, Social Security receipiants,etc., etc.)Why would they vote for anything but more,more,more.

Unless the economy goes into a total freefall, I can't see fiscal consevatives taking power again. I'll be the first to say the republican party is not fiscally conservative, but they are surely the lesser of those two evils. Thank God for gridlock Maybe the house will jam things up so hard that nothing will get done, unfortunatly the replublicans are notorious for rolling over. Somebody smack me, I think I'm turning into a Libertarian.

But look at what states receive the most from the government, and compare that with what states are considered red or blue.

What you'll find is republican states are huge takers, sitting around on the couch all day collecting welfare that the democratic states pay for (also china). Republican states on average get 1.46$ in federal spending for every tax dollar paid, democratic states get 1.16$, and out of the 15 states that pay more than they get, 3/4ths are blue states.

The south, clearly needs to get a job and start making something of themselves.

Dig a little deeper and find out what percentage of the population in those states are REGISTERED voters -- and what percentage turned out. It might be interesting to see why the "south" votes Republican?

California is a classic example of what is wrong with this Nation...A blue state.

And it will need a Federal bailout soon...Shows how well their Ideaology works...And the nation is on the same path...

You said a mouthful right there. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to predict California as the first state to go bankrupt (technically).

True. But we're too big to fail. :lol:

I can go to 10 different places and get 10 different break downs on where the money goes, so lets not delute ourselves into thinking that dems are not HUGE waisters of my tax dollars. Don't know about your state, but I'm sure its the same as mine, the lions share of tax money goes to the the inner city, the bluest part of the state(the crazy part is the more they spend, the worse it gets) I'm no appoligist for the republican party, but as bad as they are, the democrats are way worse. Just look at the deficit under Obama, the wars are winding down, yet spending goes through the roof.

All I can say is, stop listening to what they are telling us, and start watching what they are doing. Bush ramrodded the the Patriot Act though, Obama is bending us over with Obamacare, don't know which is scarier. Look at where the federal government is, they now are controlling heath care, the insurance industy, the auto industry, the banking industry, none of which is constitutional. You know the founding fathers are looking down thinking how did you let this happen.

Now THERE is a mouthful.... Just spend some time reading quotes from our founding Father's.

They predicted that some of this would happen....They told us to not let it happen...The Federal Reserve, Government intrusion, etc...

But many aren't listening, and the dumbing down of society is at an all time high...

That was my prevailing thought on election night. :wow:

Classic!

You sir have it correct. They will Praise Reagan time and time again. What did Reagan do for Latinos and others as far as the immigration issue?
All the Republicans had to do what separate themselves from Faux News and idiots like Limbaugh and Trump and they may have had a legitimate chance.

Me personally, I don't like the idea of checkpoints when driving across Arizona and don't want that nonsense to spread to other states.
My guy was Ron Paul but, he did not stand a snow balls chance in you know where.

Keep it up Republicans and the nest president will be Cory Booker. And no this is note a race thing it is a "vote for anybody but them" thing. Much like how Obama won the first time around.

Might wanna recheck the data on the Reagan comment. He did a pretty big immigration amnesty deal - and we're back in the same mess 30 years later.

Simpson Mazoli Bill

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfHKIq5z80U

Bush did a big deal on immigration too.

And the Latino vote totals went down for those presidents in their next elections.

Jim

Absolutely right. Amnesty!
Reagan knew exactly what to do and what to say for the time.
As a Latino I am going to give you my opinion. We want to vote Republican as mentioned by another member earlier. We also understand that tightening the border is important. But, to go and deport people who come here, and work for our benefit we do not believe is right. By benefit I am talking about buying produce at stores for cheap. Get rid of the migrant worker and you will witness the biggest inflation in the cost of produce you have ever seen. (just one example). No one thanks the migrant worker for his labor and cheap earned wage so we can buy our food for cheap.
Reagan said it himself, employers hire them. The employer benefits and we benefit.
The counter argument is "we want legal migrant workers correct"? Well once a migrant worker is legal he is going to try and get a better job and leave the fields.
We need to be honest with ourselves as Americans we can not tell people not to come here and when they do, tell them we have work for them. We need to realize there are jobs we will not do for certain pay or labor.
We need to be like Reagan and face the issue and see what compromise we can come up with.
“If they come into the United States to pick tomatoes, they can’t go out and work at McDonald’s" was once said by someone. And you wonder why you don't get the votes you need.
Keep it up Republicans.

I may be way off or just missing what you are saying, so please correct me if I am wrong. What I took from that is that you think it is alright for a person to come to the United States illegally, so long as they are here to work as cheap labor?

I'll jump in here.... :D


When I go to Home Depot -- I see people that WANT to work... and I like that about those people. They're not standing by the freeway offramp with some sob story on a piece of cardboard...


What I do not like - is that they (meaning anyone that comes illegally) pay ZERO taxes... and when they get ill... they show up at the ER and we fix them up free of charge... and I don't like that some of the money they earn is sent out of my country... and I don't like the mess that is left behind in the areas they inhabit. In other words - come here and RESPECT my way of life... don't turn my country into the crap country you left behind.

If people come here and like it... then I want them to try to better themselves - learn to speak english - and pay taxes etc just like I do. I don't want them to work in the fields for low pay and do back breaking work. But that "low cost" of labor you cite doesn't jibe with the 11 BILLION DOLLARS that California budgets for "illegals".... So just like Obamacare... there is no "free" or "low cost" medical care... someone is paying - we're just recognizing it in a different column on the spreadsheet .


So --- I don't like to bitch --- unless I think I have a better way....

We don't need to deport people.... But we do need to find a way to organize them and bring them to some sort of "legal state" where they can be here - pay taxes and medicare etc - but not be citizens without going through what our laws already say they must do.

What I don't like is what I see when I go to Southern California... where parts of it are looking more and more like Northern Mexico... and THAT is what people are upset about I think... So I think people would like a "fix" for the issue - and I think people in general would like to see other people do well and improve themselves... but NOT at the expense of our way of life as we know it.

Does that make sense?

That is what Reagan did.

Greg it makes sense to me and I respect your point of view and agree with 98% of it.

I wasn't looking to stir the pot and my question was an honest one. The reason I asked for clarification is that a very very good friend of mine came from those who pick produce. His parents came to the U.S. legally and worked VERY hard to carve out the best life possible for their family. They started in the fields. Their children all are very well educated (by their own means) and all have very good jobs. I have nothing but the utmost respect for them.

I just don't think it's fair to those who do all that it takes to come to the U.S. legally when many others come in illegally. It's a pretty big slap in the face to anyone that has earned it.

My wife works for the local police department here in Las Vegas and I have a lot of friends on the department. They will tell you that the illegals that cause a great many problems. The fact that that they came here by an illegal means shows a bit of who they are. Those that came here legally...well that also shows the type of person they are.

I honestly don't care where a person comes from. I have been all over the world with my job and I have spent time in a lot of poor places. There are good people everywhere and we all have the same basic desire to improve our way of life. Anyone that make the immigration issue strictly about Latino's or any other one specific background is wrong.

That's my .2 cents. Hope I used words like "their" properly. :_paranoid

Here's what's REALLY wrong ----


If we just take Mexico and the U.S.


We have TWO governments that have failed their people. Mexico by not providing an environment (after 100's of years) where it's people can make a standard of living in their own country.... and ours - by allowing people to knowingly break the laws and get away with it (and that's the people seeking work and those that employ them).

GregWeld,
as a American of Latino decent I agree with you as well.
Unlike what most people think Latino Americans don't like seeing there neighborhood go to SH*&!
If you think the Mexican American likes paying taxes all you have to do is go down to Mexico.
The typical Mexican would rather have dirt roads and burn there own garbage as opposed to pay taxes for nice roads and waste collection every weekend.

Wake up Republican, they have the same ideology as you. But, if you want to categorize them as a taker and not a worker then you will never get their respect come election time.
I am only 1 person. My vote is only 1 of many. But, I do vote. I did not vote for Obama in 2008 or 2012. As well, I did not vote for MCcain or Romney. I pulled for the guy I thought was best for America and treated Americans and people with respect, Ron Paul.

With all respect my friend, I didn't ask what Regan did. I asked if that was what you where saying and honestly I am more interested in hearing your personal opinion and views. You bring a unique perspective to the table. One that perhaps I can learn from....if you're willing to share.

If not here in the public eye, them perhaps via a PM.

:captain:

Very well stated Greg.

Agreed!


Personally -- I like PEOPLE... if they're good people. Period. I do not like some people by way of their own actions regardless of color or race. There's way more classless, filthy, white folks that were born right here in the good old USA...

I had a warehouse in New York City -- all Puerto Rican guys.... they were the BEST guys in the whole wide world. Honest hard working guys. They were paid well and treated well. I ate with them regularly. Those guys were the best!

Not necessarily true. Most Latinos know why illegals come here illegally. As GregWeld said their government failed them. When it is impossible to feed your family a man will do what it takes to survive. They are no different than an unemployed American. They just want a job, any job.

I am going to bow out because I know where these threads and debates typically end up. I want to thank all that kept it civil and treated an opposing view with respect. Maybe, some need to treat others with respect instead of categorizing them as takers or people looking for handouts. I think the media over used that b.s. and offended many. People took to the poles and voted not for the best guy but, the worst of two evils.
This is just my opinion and it does not mean much. But, one thing is for sure regardless of what anyone calls me, I am an American first and foremost and I vote. And there is allot of garbage I am seeing coming from both parties that I could never agree with.

And there's the difference.... in a nutshell. YOU are a tax paying, hard working, American. You don't expect something for nothing. You put your boots on and go to work every day. You care. You vote.

My old saying -- "Don't vote? Then don't bitch!"


:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :cheers:

I 100% understand that a desperate person will do whatever it takes. Hard to argue that...not that I am arguing.

I suppose the answer is that there is no simple answer. Once size doesn't fit all.

I won't allow this thread to go sideways. As long as everyone is respectful, I see it as a positive. We have all learned a lot here on LG. :thumbsup:

You deserve a response before I leave.
I will give you only one example. My gardener is Latino. With out sharing any of his personal life I will say this. His son served with the Marines and was wounded badly in Afghanistan last year. His son received honors from our country for his service and almost giving his life for this country. He is what Faux news calls an "Anchor baby". That to me is insulting.
He is what I call a real American. Should he and his family be sent back? Or as Americans can we see it to treat them as a special case? Can we go back to what Reagan tried and treat those that have sacrificed working in fields or those who wanted the same as our ancestors to live the American dream a second chance?

I see what you are getting at. Hard working people earned (in a way) their place in the American dream because they have contributed. Or perhaps a better way to say it is that there are many ways one could earn citizenship. I could support that idea.

What I can't support is when criminals come here from other places. But that's an entire different can of worms. :rolleyes:

Thought this was worth sharing........
https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphot...29539217_n.jpg

And that sums up why I COULD NOT vote for President Obama....


He doesn't subscribe to ANY of those ideals.

While very indicative of the feelings of lots of people on this board.... not something from Honest Abe's mouth...

http://www.snopes.com/quotes/lincoln/prosperity.asp