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-   -   1985 Monte Carlo SS known as Barney (https://www.lateral-g.net/forums/showthread.php?t=43529)

Ben@SpeedTech 02-05-2015 09:29 AM

Wait, what's that? I can finally see more racing on the horizon!

Congrats on getting the carb done and good luck with the other stuff.

Gscherer78ta 02-05-2015 09:50 AM

I am running a Qjet on my Poncho 400 and last year had it tuned by a guy here well know for his carb knowledge and what a difference it made! Really, WOW!

I read Cliff's books and read stuff on the internet and tried what I thought was everything and was looking at new carbs to buy when I had this guy tune it and now it runs great.

Looking forward to hearing about your racing this summer!

Che70velle 02-05-2015 05:40 PM

Great news Lance! Looking forward to hearing about your on the road results.

glassman 02-05-2015 08:42 PM

Good read Lance. I've only driven a few "really" well tuned carbs in my life and when there on, there on. But getting them there requires patience, knowledge, and experience, none of which i have. I've done a little with my dirt bikes, but 4 strokes, two strokes, another story. I think Siegster here can tune a carb or two,and i've had some friends who could do that. Its an art thats getting lost. But hey, i can still putty a window with the best of them !!!!! :thumbsup:

Sieg 02-05-2015 09:20 PM

17-18 inches of vacuum at idle! .........I've dreamt of that before. :sieg:

If the stars align and atmospheric conditions are ideal I can get 12" @ 950-1,000 rpm. :D

SSLance 02-06-2015 05:32 AM

Truck motor... ;)


Not so much fun on the top end but you should feel it pull out of a corner on the autocross course...

Plus, VERY street friendly....

SSLance 02-06-2015 05:38 AM

I made this video up last year after a few runs on the bigger autocross courses we run at Heartland Park Topeka. I just love listening to the Q-jet opening up...



Listen to the chuckle about 10 seconds in from my passenger on his first ride in the car. His Mini won't do that. :drive: :D

Ron Sutton 02-06-2015 08:14 AM

Oh yeah :)

Ben@SpeedTech 02-06-2015 02:00 PM

Man that car looks like it plain hauls the mail!

I look forward to spanking you when we finally meet up. :poke: Lol!

SSLance 02-06-2015 02:34 PM

I'll admit...I've probably played the above video back three or more times just today...with the speakers turned up :D It is a fun car...and it's the dead of winter here...and the car is in a hundred pieces right now. I had to get my fix in somehow.

I look forward to the opportunity for you to attempt to spank me Ben, :poke: :D It is a blast to finally put it on the track and see where things measure up.

Dan Howe and I couldn't have had any more fun than we did running at Gateway last summer. Was a great weekend...

Justin@EntropyRad 02-12-2015 09:07 AM

Sweet
 
Pics look good hooking corners:thumbsup:

GregWeld 02-12-2015 09:15 AM

I'd love to watch the video but all I'm getting is a black box in the post.... is it on youtube somewhere??

SSLance 02-12-2015 09:47 AM

try this Greg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...&v=c2YZmBwRCUI

Ron Sutton 02-12-2015 09:50 AM

A little sawdust ... but only a little. Nice driving improvement.

:cheers:

GregWeld 02-12-2015 09:52 AM

Got it Lance -- great video! Nice driving.... and the car sounds great and corners pretty flat!


The video was back on this site this time when I came to post this... I'm in Maui and using my iPad as my "wifi" link to laptop so maybe it was just a glitch for me - but thanks for sending it!! My wife was very happy listening to it over the surf... LOL

GregWeld 02-12-2015 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron Sutton (Post 594334)
A little sawdust ... but only a little. Nice driving improvement.

:cheers:




Going to have to hook that string to his hands from his feet?? LOL

SSLance 02-12-2015 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron Sutton (Post 594334)
A little sawdust ... but only a little. Nice driving improvement.

:cheers:

Thanks, I worked VERY hard on my driving skillz last season and feel like I made huge gains. I know the car is still more capable than the driver, but I'm getting there.

I wonder if anyone else does this? I can look back at last year in my mind and vividly remember the specific corners I screwed up as a driver that cost me a win, or a great time...on several different courses and days. I also look back at the videos regularly (one just to get me through the long winters) and play them through in my mind saying, "you need to this here, not that" to get through that corner faster etc.

The good news is, I'm really starting to recognize what it takes to be fast, the next step is making my hands, feet and eyes...replicate those actions.

SSLance 02-12-2015 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron Sutton (Post 594334)
A little sawdust ... but only a little. Nice driving improvement.

:cheers:

Have you watched this video yet Ron?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPQhQPgbDDU

This was from the last event of last year...

Panteracer 02-12-2015 10:12 AM

Lance
 
Lance,
I always tell everyone when you and the car become one
then it is working.. I know it is tough to figure things out
when you make a bunch of changes to the car.. I am in that
boat now... Looks like things are working out for you
I sometimes tell myself to slow down to go fast.. pushing it
(unless you are Danny Popp) seems to work against you

And seat time, seat time are hard to replace
I hate to say it but taking mine out this weekend to the
coast for a spin.. suppose to be in the 70's here in Kali
No real winter here.. keep at it and have fun that is
why we are doing this

Bob

GregWeld 02-12-2015 10:22 AM

Is it just me or is that steering column moving around a lot??? Not picking on you or the car.... calling it out because I saw it and maybe it's nothing or maybe there is a way to "fix it".... Or maybe it's just my old sorry azz eyes and the shadows.

I thought your driving was pretty dang smooth! And maybe Ron will comment on hand position -- because I'd like to learn from this too.... but I was thinking that your left hand should stay on the 9 O'clock side of the wheel rather than coming all the way across your body?? IDK...

SSLance 02-12-2015 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GregWeld (Post 594344)
Is it just me or is that steering column moving around a lot??? Not picking on you or the car.... calling it out because I saw it and maybe it's nothing or maybe there is a way to "fix it".... Or maybe it's just my old sorry azz eyes and the shadows.

I thought your driving was pretty dang smooth! And maybe Ron will comment on hand position -- because I'd like to learn from this too.... but I was thinking that your left hand should stay on the 9 O'clock side of the wheel rather than coming all the way across your body?? IDK...


No, your eyes aren't fooling you, the steering column was about ready to fall apart that day. The tilt mechanism started to get a little bit of play in it at the SCCA Solo Nationals in Sept and I just hoped it would hold together through the end of the season...that last race day in Oct did it in big time though.

I actually just got the column back from Jim down at GMTILT, he completely rebuilt the tilt mechanism, changed some things on the column itself and prettied it up quite a bit. Might even get it back in the car this weekend.

Regarding hand position, different instructors will tell you to do different things with your hands depending on the situation, but above and beyond that, I believe in order to have complete control of the wheel (and your car) your hands have to be where you want them to be and are comfortable with them. For instance, at Gateway on the road course, my instructor kept trying to get me to put my hands at 9 and 3 o'clock, but this put my elbows right into my seat bolsters during a turn and I couldn't do what I wanted to with the wheel because of that. With my hands at 10 and 2 my arms were more free to control the wheel, creating more car control. I also like to bring the opposite hand for the turn (ie right hand on a left hand turn) down on the wheel before the turn so that once in the turn the hand is at about 3 o'clock, same but opposite for a right hand turn. Once I explained this to the instructor he agreed.

On an autocross course, I am typically thinking at least a corner ahead of where I'm at on the course and will try to get my hands where I'll need them to be on the wheel for the next corner as well. That's why you'll see me moving them either one way or the other on the wheel, so they'll be ahead enough of the wheel so I won't have to cross them up during a turn. It doesn't always work out perfectly but knowing how much I'll have to turn the wheel to negotiate a turn helps so that I can position my hands ahead of that movement. A smaller steering wheel and\or a faster steering box would negate this extra hand movement, but this works okay for me now.

A lot of guys racing these older muscle cars have to turn them way more than I have to turn this one, so I don't feel too bad about what I have to do .

SSLance 02-12-2015 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Panteracer (Post 594343)
Lance,
I always tell everyone when you and the car become one
then it is working.. I know it is tough to figure things out
when you make a bunch of changes to the car.. I am in that
boat now... Looks like things are working out for you
I sometimes tell myself to slow down to go fast.. pushing it
(unless you are Danny Popp) seems to work against you

And seat time, seat time are hard to replace
I hate to say it but taking mine out this weekend to the
coast for a spin.. suppose to be in the 70's here in Kali
No real winter here.. keep at it and have fun that is
why we are doing this

Bob

Bob,

I stayed away from making changes to the car for most of last season for just that reason. I told Ron that I wanted to work on the driver that year, not the car. :D And I have found the need to slow down to go faster at times as well.

What I find happening to me, and I think this is either street tire related or maybe more specifically Falken 615K related...is once I slide the car by over driving it, which ever end I slid, immediately continues to slide in the next few corners even if it isn't being over drove. Usually it's my rear tires...I call it making them angry. If I carry too much speed or exit too hard out of a corner and spin the rear tires...when I go into the corner after that, the rear steps out MUCH earlier than I expect it too...then the whole process compounds on itself and the run is ruined. If I just back it up a tad and don't make that initial slide, they continue to stick for the whole run and I'll put a great time down.

This killed me at the Pro Solo last fall because sitting there at Christmas tree light start with a competitor beside me, I'd launch hard every time and spin the back tires. From then on in each and every run, I couldn't keep the back end under the car and the looseness got continually worse each run. I actually spun the car twice that day...and I NEVER spin this car out on a course.

There were other factors involved as well which made the bad situation worse, but the making the tires angry is one of the things I look back on and realize now and vow to try to avoid in the upcoming season.

GregWeld 02-12-2015 12:24 PM

Makes sense to me Lance!

Panteracer 02-12-2015 01:07 PM

SS Monte
 
Lance,
It is hard for me going from dot autocross or road race tires
to these 200 rated tires.. takes all my confidence of railing a
turn into tiptoe land...I agree to leave the car alone if it is neutral
and work on the driving part

I ran my Pantera at Optima with 200 rated tires and they
were crap.. ran it at the last Goodguys and used my dot
V-710 Kumos and it stuck like glue.. just fun runs but
it was the 3rd fastest time and I only ran the first day
and they are road race compound that takes a little while
to heat up

Newer 200 tires coming out might be getting better because of the SCCA,
Speedway and Optima series.. I think whenever I can run
my dot kumos (American Autocross series etc) that is what
I am going to do.. or just do fun runs at Goodguys it is
just for fun for me..

Bob

SSLance 02-12-2015 01:49 PM

When I first started with the SCCA autocross group, there were two schools of thought regarding tires passed along to me from the veterans. Many told me to learn how to drive on street tires first before going to R compounds because the R compound tires would mask bad driving habits. The rest were already sucking on the R compound crack pipe and they told me to get R compounds on the car as soon as possible if I really wanted it to work.

Since that time, the SCCA is making a concerted effort to weed all of the street class cars off of R compounds and it is interesting watching those that have made a living so to speak with R compounds on their street cars having to readjust their driving back to street tires. Some are doing okay at it, others not so much at all.

Granted, I only ran second hand 60 series A6s on 16" rims on my car but I found the 40 series Falken 615Ks on 17" rims (that were basically the exact same tread width as the A6s) to be easier to drive on than the A6s. They responded better, they spoke to me better, and they were more predictable when you got too or stepped over the line of grip.

They may be down just a bit on overall grip from the A6s, but I like how they feel better and as long as everyone else has the grip with their tires, I'm okay with them.

One friend has a newer Miata that he ran R compounds on for years and is a great driver. He put Rivals on it 2 years ago and HATED them, so much so that he went Chump car racing instead... Well maybe that wasn't the whole reason but it's funny because he runs Falken 615ks on his Chump Miata now and does fine with them.

Panteracer 02-12-2015 03:29 PM

SS Monte
 
I have really only autocrossed about 6 times in the last 5 years
Been running on the road race courses but want to get back
to autocrossing more often now that my Firebird is getting sorted

I remember when first it was yokes, then Hoosiers then Kumos
One tire always seemed to be a little better than another
I have Rivals on the Pantera and to be truthful some of the
problem is I could only get a shorter tire out back and taller in
the front and the car does not like it.... but you are right you
get spoiled with R compound tires

Bob

Ron Sutton 02-12-2015 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GregWeld (Post 594337)
Going to have to hook that string to his hands from his feet?? LOL


He's gotten pretty good. But I gave him crap before when I watched one of his videos last year. I forget my exact smart a** remark, but it was something along the lines of needing to take a wet/dry vac to the track to keep up with the saw dust.

:lol:


Ron Sutton 02-12-2015 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SSLance (Post 594342)
Have you watched this video yet Ron?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPQhQPgbDDU

This was from the last event of last year...


I take from the sailor language you hit a cone?

You looked good in the video, but your steering column looked like it was flexing quite a bit. When you get your good seats & belts in the car ... that hold you in place better ... that should go away.

Was it a pretty fast lap ?


Ron Sutton 02-12-2015 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GregWeld (Post 594344)
Is it just me or is that steering column moving around a lot??? Not picking on you or the car.... calling it out because I saw it and maybe it's nothing or maybe there is a way to "fix it".... Or maybe it's just my old sorry azz eyes and the shadows.

I thought your driving was pretty dang smooth! And maybe Ron will comment on hand position -- because I'd like to learn from this too.... but I was thinking that your left hand should stay on the 9 O'clock side of the wheel rather than coming all the way across your body?? IDK...


I saw that steering column flex too!

So Greg I think you know my philosophy ... is for the driver to gently & smoothly shuffle the wheel their hands ... and not get crossed up. But I've seen guys with the funkiest hand action & positions still win races.


Ron Sutton 02-12-2015 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SSLance (Post 594364)
Bob,

I stayed away from making changes to the car for most of last season for just that reason. I told Ron that I wanted to work on the driver that year, not the car. :D And I have found the need to slow down to go faster at times as well.

What I find happening to me, and I think this is either street tire related or maybe more specifically Falken 615K related...is once I slide the car by over driving it, which ever end I slid, immediately continues to slide in the next few corners even if it isn't being over drove. Usually it's my rear tires...I call it making them angry. If I carry too much speed or exit too hard out of a corner and spin the rear tires...when I go into the corner after that, the rear steps out MUCH earlier than I expect it too...then the whole process compounds on itself and the run is ruined. If I just back it up a tad and don't make that initial slide, they continue to stick for the whole run and I'll put a great time down.

This killed me at the Pro Solo last fall because sitting there at Christmas tree light start with a competitor beside me, I'd launch hard every time and spin the back tires. From then on in each and every run, I couldn't keep the back end under the car and the looseness got continually worse each run. I actually spun the car twice that day...and I NEVER spin this car out on a course.

There were other factors involved as well which made the bad situation worse, but the making the tires angry is one of the things I look back on and realize now and vow to try to avoid in the upcoming season.


Greg knows my funny phrases.
1. Don't surprise the tires ... by doing things abruptly with the steering wheel, brakes or throttle ... or they'll bite you.
2. Don't piss the tires off by sawing on the wheel & over steering ... or they give up.
3. Keep the tires happy & they'll respond by giving you grip ... and grip is corner speed.

We can't be naive enough to think we can abuse the tires and they'll still perform at their peak. It doesn't work that way. The key is driving them up to the edge ... their limits of grip ... as smoothly as possible.



SSLance 02-13-2015 04:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron Sutton (Post 594446)

I take from the sailor language you hit a cone?

You looked good in the video, but your steering column looked like it was flexing quite a bit. When you get your good seats & belts in the car ... that hold you in place better ... that should go away.

Was it a pretty fast lap ?


Yeah, it was a real fast lap, about a half second faster than my previous run which was good enough for the class win that day. That cone cost 2 seconds negating the run. Worst part was, it wasn't even really necessary to be that close to it, I was just concentrating on setting up for the sweeper and misjudged how close I was to it.

SSLance 02-13-2015 04:39 AM

When I mentioned above that the car is still more capable than the driver, this is what I struggle with most...and it ties into pissing the tires off during a run.

My worst habit used to be overdriving into the corner,standing on the brakes too hard and entering the turn in part of the corner too hard on the brakes with the back end jacked up into the air and causing the car to be loose on turn in and roll thru. The millisecond that you start sliding the car is the moment you start loosing time until it stops sliding. I am much better at not doing this now, it is a rare problem.

What is more common is I'll enter the corner a bit on the easy side and brake a little too long and then mid-way through the roll thru zone my right foot says "GOING TO SLOW" and it'll hit the gas...which is wrong wrong wrong.

One of two things will result, either the car will take weight off the front tires where it is still needed and the car will push or it will spin the rear tires before the weight gets transferred back to them resulting in loose. Either way...huge amounts of time are lost waiting for the grip to come back and now my tires are pissed for the rest of the run.

I read driving books all of the time and generally the cornering advice is geared towards road courses, where you have 10 laps of practice during a 20 minute session to pick out your braking points, memorize visual cues, and practice the 10 or so important corners on the 2 minute lap track. All before your actual racing starts.

In autocross, especially SCCA autocross, you have 3 runs on a course you've never driven before, with 10-15 important corners during a 60 second lap to set your best time...and you are done. THIS IS HARD.

There is no time to set braking points, memorize visual cues, much less practice. You have to drive by feel and instinct. You have to know what your car is going to do before you dive into that corner and how it is going to come out the other side. Contrary to road racing, you generally do NOT make up time on the straights in autocross, you make up time carrying as much speed as you can through the corners. And the second you start sliding a tire is the second you start loosing time.

This is especially hard when for larger part of the 30+ years you've been driving...coming out of a corner with the rear tires spinning in a spirited powerslide was considered FUN!!! :drive:

OLDFLM 02-13-2015 06:03 AM

^^^ Great Post!!! ^^^

GrabberGT 02-13-2015 06:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SSLance (Post 594491)
....
This is especially hard when for larger part of the 30+ years you've been driving...coming out of a corner with the rear tires spinning in a spirited powerslide was considered FUN!!! :drive:


Now just hold on there one second... Are you saying I've been doing it wrong all this time and this is NOT fun?!?! :poke:

Good post.

Ron Sutton 02-13-2015 07:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SSLance (Post 594491)
My worst habit used to be overdriving into the corner,standing on the brakes too hard and entering the turn in part of the corner too hard on the brakes with the back end jacked up into the air and causing the car to be loose on turn in and roll thru. The millisecond that you start sliding the car is the moment you start loosing time until it stops sliding. I am much better at not doing this now, it is a rare problem.

What is more common is I'll enter the corner a bit on the easy side and brake a little too long and then mid-way through the roll thru zone my right foot says "GOING TO SLOW" and it'll hit the gas...which is wrong wrong wrong.
Yup yup yup ... it is wrong, wrong, wrong. But a VERY Common mistake by developing drivers.

One of two things will result, either the car will take weight off the front tires where it is still needed and the car will push or it will spin the rear tires before the weight gets transferred back to them resulting in loose. Either way...huge amounts of time are lost waiting for the grip to come back and now my tires are pissed for the rest of the run.



You have this figured out.
Now you just need more practice driving in a little deeper, using a little less brake, letting her roll ... and repetition getting consistent at it. That is the fun part. Don't beat yourself up, just work on improving.

When I was developing young drivers climbing the ranks of the racing ladder, we never focused on results. Never. We never focused on winning or getting a top 3, etc. Never. We always focused on learning, improving & applying what they learned. And these kids won a ton of races against long time veteran racing adults.

The great part is you KNOW what to do. So this year just have fun focusing on improving & applying what you know. That's my 2¢.


:cheers:



SSLance 02-16-2015 07:51 AM

Took care of some little odds and ends this weekend on the car, some that had been needing attention for quite a while.

First up, ever since I switched to the Sick Speed Monte clutch pedal, I've had a gaping hole in my firewall...the initial hole for the John B pedal and then the adjustment to it for the Bernie Built pedal. I covered them up Sunday with a clutch rod boot that had been on my shelf for almost 2 years.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-2...0214150951.jpg

I then had to work on my pedals a bit. The powdercoat on the clutch pedal made it a bit sticky if the bolt was tightened down too tight, so by leaving the bolt a tad loose it let the brake pedal swing over and just kiss the clutch pedal sometimes if not pushed straight down. I shortened the head of the bolt that holds the clutch master rod to the pedal and then sanded on the clutch pedal swivel to make it fit the inner sleeve better allowing the bolt to be fully tightened down. This tightened up both the clutch and brake pedal and botho move smoothly now without touching each other. I then hung the pedals back in place.


Next up was the bracket to mount the coil in this position under the dash.

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-M...207151216a.jpg

Wasn't a big deal and I think it turned out fine. No pics of finished bracket yet though.

My friend John also helped make up a couple of coil wires to help finish up the coil install before he started on the brackets to mount the new seats.


Packaging the seats in place is proving to be a challenge. We've got a good start on them and have a plan in place, we just need to raise the back mounts up another inch and then adjust everything once again for driver comfort. I'm super glad that I decided to have the tilt column rebuilt (which turned out beautiful BTW) as it looks like I'll need the steering wheel adjustability to get the driver comfort dialed in.

Mainly I'm running out of room for my left elbow with the seat in "racing position". The side bolster of the seat and armrest on the door panel leave little room for my elbow so we had to raise the front of the seat bottom, tilting the seat back back...allowing my feet to be closer to the pedals but leaving more room for my arms to flail about during spirited driving. With the seat in this position, I have to tilt the wheel down for a comfortable grip and tilting it up for entering and exiting the seat will be necessary.

This is still a work in progress but at least I've sat in the seats bolted to the car and I know they fit within the area allowed. Fortunately the Recaro sliders allow for a TON of adjustability for and aft on both sides and we should be able to get things mounted in a permanent position on both sides that serves the intended purpose and will allow different size drivers and passengers to make themselves pretty comfortable.

Now I have to tackle the MSD box wiring once again to rearrange things since the coil was moved inside as well as bolt the carb back down and tidy up under the hood. I've ordered a new electric fan harness from Harnessworx to clean up that area as my homebuilt harness had some issues. Figured now is as good of a time to clean that up. Some other little odds and ends need accomplished as well, like making this throttle cable bracket play nice with my intake manifold.

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-2...0214151317.jpg

Just little time consuming things... To be continued...

SSLance 02-23-2015 10:24 AM

Pretty good progress this weekend, lotta little things tidied up.

Here's the seats, sorry for the crappy pics.

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-Y...0221151503.jpg

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-H...221151503b.jpg

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-C...221151503a.jpg

Man, the camera really shows how dirty the carpet is right now...

I'm pretty happy with the location and fit so far. Still have room to tweak the position around a bit if needed, might tilt the driver's back a bit more...we'll see once I drive it.

Modified throttle cable bracket works...

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-f...221151505a.jpg

My new harness for the electric fans gets delivered today. Installing it along with wiring up the MSD box and put the passenger inner fender back in with battery and should be close to test firing it.

65_LS1_T56 02-23-2015 04:10 PM

Lance, sorry the seats don't fit. I guess you'll have to send them to me after all. You need my address?



:lol: , looks great. Nice job!

SSLance 02-23-2015 04:27 PM

You are first on the list if I decide I can't make them work Aaron. :D

They are okay, not as bad as a lot of the seats I sat in at PRI but not quite as good shoulder wise for me as the large Cobra seats that were my pick as I left PRI. They might end up being okay once I get harnesses and get used to them.

WSSix 02-24-2015 06:29 AM

Congrats on the good progress, Lance.


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