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-   -   Dirt Missile rebuild begins (https://www.lateral-g.net/forums/showthread.php?t=57146)

gnx7 01-14-2019 03:01 PM

I haven't been on here in a while and I was hoping this car would be tearing up the track already! I am blown away (not as much you are Greg) at all the sloppy don't care work that was done by Sutton! From the driveshaft to the engine beat down. At least you are in good hands now and getting it sorted!

It'll be a fun car when V2.0 is finished! At least you found the issues out BEFORE taking it to the track. Scary work!

raustinss 01-14-2019 03:02 PM

are any "fish" plates being welded to the frame as well or ?

Che70velle 01-14-2019 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raustinss (Post 688489)
are any "fish" plates being welded to the frame as well or ?

Wondering the same. I’ve been around a lot of race cars and never seen a front or rear clip without them.

gofastwclass 01-14-2019 07:36 PM

I love all the information shared in this forum overall - especially this thread. I just took a 101 course on dry sump engineering thanks to you guys. Knowledge I'll probably not need but nice to fully understand not just how it works (I already knew this) but what not to do and more importantly WHY.

Thanks for sharing.

GregWeld 01-14-2019 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LS7 Z/28 (Post 688487)
It would really be awesome to see detailed photos of what you’re changing suspension wise, so that those of us who have the same suspension are able to see what you’ve come up with as a safe “repair” or change to the front lowers, 3 Link rear, etc. This build thread is sort of the only source that the rest of us might have for ideas and knowledge on what we should do. I understand if you guys can’t share all of it, but anything helps. I personally don’t know anyone to go to that I can trust for a redesign. Thanks again for sharing Greg/Blake.


I have no problem sharing anything at all..... and sorry to hear you’re in the same boat knowledge wise. I will repeat this —- I believe in his (Suttons) pick up points and choices of shocks etc..... My older yellow car is a joy to track... and this car was fast given all it’s issues and lack of being able to work on any suspension settings / tire temps etc.... that went by the wayside with all the mop up and repeat....

I think if you scroll back a ways — there’s a picture of the new LCA.... if not we’ll find one.

We (SpeedTech) are taking OUT the “decoupled secret sauce” rear end in favor of a simple 3 link. I think the plan is to also add all the pick up points for SpeedTech Torque Arm - and maybe we’ll be able to do some comparisons and testing etc.

GregWeld 01-15-2019 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 71RS/SS396 (Post 686996)
What a fuggin mess!
I can confirm that's not 2,000* coating.
I'm really curious what the tune looks like...betting it's "lean and mean"
Kurt will probably throw half of the engine in the trash and start over.

Seems your “half” guesstimate might be on the low side...... LOL

gofastwclass 01-16-2019 03:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GregWeld (Post 688523)
Seems your “half” guesstimate might be on the low side...... LOL

Can you at least keep the valve covers or oil pan? You know it's bad when the valve covers have to go!

Crap, just thought about this... Depending on the PCV setup Mr. Secret Sauce used the valve covers might be on the souvenir list too. :confused59:

Still hoping for the best for you in every way (especially health) GW.

Blake Foster 01-16-2019 06:18 AM

oil pan yes. valve covers NO

GregWeld 01-16-2019 07:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gofastwclass (Post 688542)
Can you at least keep the valve covers or oil pan? You know it's bad when the valve covers have to go!



Crap, just thought about this... Depending on the PCV setup Mr. Secret Sauce used the valve covers might be on the souvenir list too. :confused59:



Still hoping for the best for you in every way (especially health) GW.



The Secret Sauced V/C’s were a problem from the get go!! They were leaking from day one.....and I remember thinking — “I’ve NEVER EVER seen a LS motor with leaking V/C’s.... “

If I get them back I plan to take them way out in the desert and add some modifications to them with a 6.5 Creedmoor...... Then I’ll sign them and send one to you!



https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...3a727e28aa.jpg


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71RS/SS396 01-16-2019 07:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GregWeld (Post 688523)
Seems your “half” guesstimate might be on the low side...... LOL

:confused59: :confused59: :confused59: :confused59: :confused59:

rixtrix1 01-16-2019 10:08 AM

Hoping to see more build progress pics soon.

gofastwclass 01-16-2019 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GregWeld (Post 688553)
The Secret Sauced V/C’s were a problem from the get go!! They were leaking from day one.....and I remember thinking — “I’ve NEVER EVER seen a LS motor with leaking V/C’s.... “

If I get them back I plan to take them way out in the desert and add some modifications to them with a 6.5 Creedmoor...... Then I’ll sign them and send one to you!


Now THAT's funny!
I'll make sure to never make you angry. :D

57hemicuda 01-18-2019 03:44 PM

What ever Tim says goes on the dry sump, LOL, Kurt and him did more experimenting then probably anybody in the country. I am running factory 2 stage LS7 pump with A.R.E. pan, doesn't make enough vacuum to properly scavenge, so ended up using multiple vent tanks to cure my oil puke issues. Works great but took a while to dial in.

Tony V 01-19-2019 07:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 71RS/SS396 (Post 688454)
How you plumb the topend of the engine is really dependent on the scavenge ability of the pump and whether it can maintain vacuum on the crankcase when the engine is wound up. If you can't maintain vacuum when the engine is at max rpm you have to vent the crankcase pressure to somewhere or you're going to have blow-by issues.
I started out with a 3 stage Dailey that made vacuum at idle but with the 4.125 stroke crank I have it couldn't maintain vacuum when we revved it up. I added 2 more scavenge stages, I can now maintain 15" of vacuum at 8,000 rpm and picked up 20 hp. I initially ran it sealed but with street driving I started seeing moisture accumulation in the tank oil cap and the valve covers. I plumbed a -4 line from the drivers side valve cover to the top of the tank to turn the air over and cured the moisture issue.

What I have done with the 3 stage pumps is to run one -12 line from the valve cover to the top of the tank, you can run it to the tank breather but you'll just fill with oil quicker.

Tim, really appreciate you sharing....Greg can't wait to see some progress pics and now that you're down here in sunny AZ maybe i'll get a chance to the missile on track days. love this thread, learning what not to do and how to correct it, unfortunately it came at a cost for Greg, hang in there!

now to my question; I have a 3 stage Dailey and plumbed a -10 from valve covers into my breather line on my 3 ga tank and would usually see accumulation of oil in my breather can that would fill it 3/4 full after a full track day, is that normal?

71RS/SS396 01-21-2019 07:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tony V (Post 688653)
Tim, really appreciate you sharing....Greg can't wait to see some progress pics and now that you're down here in sunny AZ maybe i'll get a chance to the missile on track days. love this thread, learning what not to do and how to correct it, unfortunately it came at a cost for Greg, hang in there!

now to my question; I have a 3 stage Dailey and plumbed a -10 from valve covers into my breather line on my 3 ga tank and would usually see accumulation of oil in my breather can that would fill it 3/4 full after a full track day, is that normal?


I would just run a -12 off of one valve cover directly to the top of the tank so you don't keep filling the breather tank. Are you sure you aren't over filling your tank?

71RS/SS396 01-21-2019 07:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 57hemicuda (Post 688635)
What ever Tim says goes on the dry sump, LOL, Kurt and him did more experimenting then probably anybody in the country. I am running factory 2 stage LS7 pump with A.R.E. pan, doesn't make enough vacuum to properly scavenge, so ended up using multiple vent tanks to cure my oil puke issues. Works great but took a while to dial in.

I wouldn't claim to be the authority on dry sumps. I know what works on the combinations we tested. :cheers:

GregWeld 01-24-2019 07:08 AM

Dirt Missile rebuild begins
 
I forget who was asking —- but this is the mod we came up with for the lower control arm (LCA)..... Once we have the specs locked in for alignment — our thinking is we’ll weld this fully and eliminate the bolts that will allow for adjustment.



https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...8f965efcad.jpg


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SSLance 01-24-2019 07:10 AM

So simple...yet so effective...

GregWeld 01-24-2019 07:12 AM

SpeedTech built partial wheel tubs up front to keep “track debris” from just blowing all over the stuff on the firewall etc..... for those that have never run Hoosiers — you have no idea how sticky they are — and subsequently - how much junk they pick up and hurl!!




https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...ea914396d8.jpg


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CJD Automotive 01-24-2019 07:20 AM

If you keep taking the dirt track out of this thing, your going to have to rename it... again.

GregWeld 01-24-2019 07:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CJD Automotive (Post 688873)
If you keep taking the dirt track out of this thing, your going to have to rename it... again.



Agree!!! We’ll have to go from SUTTON DIRTY BUTT MISSILE.... to SPEEDTECH MONSTER MACHINE.... LOL

LS7 Z/28 01-24-2019 07:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GregWeld (Post 688870)
I forget who was asking —- but this is the mod we came up with for the lower control arm (LCA)..... Once we have the specs locked in for alignment — our thinking is we’ll weld this fully and eliminate the bolts that will allow for adjustment.



https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...8f965efcad.jpg


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

Thanks for the photo. Looks like a great idea. Are you guys looking into just using a solid swedge tube with rod ends for the 3rd link, and getting rid of the decoupled setup? I know you talked about the possibility of a torque arm. Would love to see photos when you guys get to that point. Thanks for sharing Greg.

BMR Sales 01-24-2019 08:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GregWeld (Post 688872)
pick up and hurl!!




all these simple mistakes make me want to Hurl!

GregWeld 01-24-2019 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BMR Sales (Post 688878)
all these simple mistakes make me want to Hurl!




I don’t think they’re “mistakes” — I think they’re INCOMPETENCE

Blake Foster 01-24-2019 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LS7 Z/28 (Post 688876)
Thanks for the photo. Looks like a great idea. Are you guys looking into just using a solid swedge tube with rod ends for the 3rd link, and getting rid of the decoupled setup? I know you talked about the possibility of a torque arm. Would love to see photos when you guys get to that point. Thanks for sharing Greg.

with the way the exhaust is built right under the drive shaft in a really narrow tunnel i don't see any way to do a torque arm. i would have loved to do a comparison of the 3 link and TA but just don't see a way to make it happen with out TOOO much extra work. This is really not an exercise in creating work only to rectify the issues that need to be fixed.

rustomatic 01-24-2019 08:12 PM

This is just too funny to not quote. I do hope you're doing well, Greg. Here's what's also funny: I've been driving a 1985 BMW 524TD (turbo, yo!) that I recently bought as a result of poor impulse control, and it's bizarro fun . . . So not missile level, but fun in kind of an opposite way. I do hope you're finding ways to have fun in the new year.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GregWeld (Post 688875)
Agree!!! We’ll have to go from SUTTON DIRTY BUTT MISSILE.... to SPEEDTECH MONSTER MACHINE.... LOL


GregWeld 01-25-2019 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blake Foster (Post 688884)
with the way the exhaust is built right under the drive shaft in a really narrow tunnel i don't see any way to do a torque arm. i would have loved to do a comparison of the 3 link and TA but just don't see a way to make it happen with out TOOO much extra work. This is really not an exercise in creating work only to rectify the issues that need to be fixed.



Good post Blake —- people probably are reading my posts and thinking we’re having to build an entire new car.....

The fact is - if it held fluids - rotated - or was “suspended” or wired —- that’s all getting re-done — and the body is being “massaged” — but we’re not redoing everything — just 70%

LOL

CJD Automotive 01-25-2019 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GregWeld (Post 688931)
— but we’re not redoing everything — just 70%

200,000 ways not to build a car...
Having Speedtech build it the way it is supposed to be done and not having every question answered with, "when I owned my 12 race teams and won 200 races...". Priceless.

Panteracer 01-25-2019 10:56 AM

Dirt missile 2
 
I wanted to do a torque arm on my Firebird but
as Blake states the exhaust is a big factor on
getting things out back and under the car.. Most say they are the best
but I did not want to give up ground clearance and have to do a
rerouting of my 3" exhaust

Glad this car is getting sorted out

Bob

Blake Foster 01-25-2019 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Panteracer (Post 688936)
I wanted to do a torque arm on my Firebird but
as Blake states the exhaust is a big factor on
getting things out back and under the car.. Most say they are the best
but I did not want to give up ground clearance and have to do a
rerouting of my 3" exhaust

Glad this car is getting sorted out

Bob

Bob you need to look at our web site we can run 3" dual exhaust out over the housing with lost of clearance and there is no issue with ground clearance "WHEN DONE CORRECTLY"
as with ANY aftermarket rear suspension you WILL have to reroute your Exhaust.

GregWeld 01-26-2019 10:35 AM

Dirt Missile rebuild begins
 
A buddy wants the “sauce” (AKA as S * * T) from the DBM..... Despite the fact it was already falling apart... and he was told “I wouldn’t spend the money to ship this junk”..... (not me saying that either).

Remember this car had all of about 30 laps on it —- and this “decoupled offset 3 link” crap is already falling apart.... Gee! Who’d a thunk it!?!?



https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...6d3a8c064d.jpg


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DBasher 01-26-2019 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GregWeld (Post 688961)


All I see in that picture, besides secret sauce and failure, is an adjustable camera mount. :sieg:

GregWeld 01-27-2019 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DBasher (Post 688967)
All I see in that picture, besides secret sauce and failure, is an adjustable camera mount. :sieg:

All I see NOW —- is one mans attempt at trying to have others beholden to him..... ie —- S C A M / S H A M / MARKETING

FaBrycation 01-28-2019 11:31 AM

All these pictures of messed up/jacked up/done wrong stuff makes me sick... a guy like me that would love nothing more that to have an opportunity to do it the right way for a good person and to see the level of "don't give a f*ck" by someone to a person in your situation Greg is heart breaking. These stories and proof of the scam artists that are out there make it harder for people to trust builders and rightfully so. It doesn't help those of us that just want to be good at what we do and honest in our work.

I am glad you are in good hands now! the good progess is exciting. I can't wait to see a video of you driving it!

ScotI 01-28-2019 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FaBrycation (Post 689022)
All these pictures of messed up/jacked up/done wrong stuff makes me sick... a guy like me that would love nothing more that to have an opportunity to do it the right way for a good person and to see the level of "don't give a f*ck" by someone to a person in your situation Greg is heart breaking. These stories and proof of the scam artists that are out there make it harder for people to trust builders and rightfully so. It doesn't help those of us that just want to be good at what we do and honest in our work.

I am glad you are in good hands now! the good progess is exciting. I can't wait to see a video of you driving it!

Well said :thumbsup:

214Chevy 01-29-2019 08:24 AM

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...ea914396d8.jpg

Hey Greggo...why weren't some nice wheel tubs built like that before by the "Race God?" Nevermind....:lol::lol::lol::lol: Maybe Hoosiers weren't that sticky way back when.

GregWeld 01-29-2019 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FaBrycation (Post 689022)
All these pictures of messed up/jacked up/done wrong stuff makes me sick... a guy like me that would love nothing more that to have an opportunity to do it the right way for a good person and to see the level of "don't give a f*ck" by someone to a person in your situation Greg is heart breaking. These stories and proof of the scam artists that are out there make it harder for people to trust builders and rightfully so. It doesn't help those of us that just want to be good at what we do and honest in our work.

I am glad you are in good hands now! the good progess is exciting. I can't wait to see a video of you driving it!

Thanks for the kind words Brycen!

I’m just pleased that “mister I built 200 race cars” self imploded.... While I’m 100% positive he will go to his grave telling anyone that will listen, and even if they don’t want to listen - he’ll keep talking — that “I” destroyed his business....

Just like the lie that the “economy” and “sponsors” killed his “I ran 9 race teams” business — when — in fact — it was out right FRAUD and the subsequent lawsuit that aided his demise...

He was given a golden opportunity and couldn’t rise to the occasion.

GregWeld 01-29-2019 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 214Chevelle (Post 689055)
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...ea914396d8.jpg

Hey Greggo...why weren't some nice wheel tubs built like that before by the "Race God?" Nevermind....:lol::lol::lol::lol: Maybe Hoosiers weren't that sticky way back when.


Well — WTF do you want for a car that cost TWICE as much as a HOWE.....

Boosted Falcon 01-31-2019 11:58 AM

Greg,

So sorry to hear about this nightmare. It is great to hear the car is in good hands and will be on track soon.

DBasher 01-31-2019 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GregWeld (Post 689059)
He was given a golden opportunity and couldn’t rise to the occasion.

Fact!


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