I should add regarding "knowing when to take a profit".....


That I usually counter a profit sale with a loss sale.... If there is such an opportunity. THIS IS REALLY ONLY DONE WHEN IN A TAXABLE ACCOUNT....

It keeps the taxes lower on the gain and helps take the sting out of the loss sale.

It would be really nice if every stock pic was a winner but they're not... and knowing when to sell and "retrain" those slacker employees is something that is every bit as hard to know, as it is to know when to take that gain.

Congratulations on post number 2000!

Do I start getting a quarterly dividend for reading all of them?

Oh, wait, I am! :unibrow:

Amazing isn't it? 2000 posts.... probably 1900 of them mine...:lol:


More importantly --- I hope lots of people are forever enlightened about saving and investing - and that they're on their way to a better retirement than they otherwise might have been.

I'd love nothing better than to read on post number 10,000 that someone is a newly minted paper millionaire having gotten started way back in 2011 with this thread. :cheers:

Me too Greg, me too. You have helped dozens of us here gain knowledge, and knowledge is power. Thank you once again, from a procrastinator...Mike

I'm still reading daily! This thread has me doing sooooo much more with money and plain and simple time of reading investments and many other things. Thank you all! (especially GW since honestly this is his child )

Thanks, thanks, thanks.......

Glad to hear it! :cheers: :woot:

Fingers crossed and money invested! :thumbsup:

Thanks Greg, this is an awesome thread. Keep the lessons coming! :cheers:

Yes thank you. This has been a great thread and really opened my eyes and mind to investments other than property. :lateral:

I was well on my way before this thread, but thank you Greg for keeping me inspired and focused...


I am always up for learning more...:thumbsup: :lateral:

Always glad to see people are still reading. Just not much to post about right now. We've covered most all of the basics and I don't want this to turn into a "about Greg" thread because that's not what it's about. Every day I think about something to post --- but then it's not pertinent to 102 investing. So it's not that I'm not thinking about the thread -- it's just that there has to be a reason and something to post about that will HELP someone.

To post about daily ups and downs of the market is pretty pointless... and I personally never wanted the thread to be about which stock to buy or when to sell etc unless it's an example for the market in general (like the Facebook ordeal).

We're in a very unique position right now --- an election -- europe -- our own issues etc. My guess is - when we look back in a couple years - this will be viewed as an anomaly as markets go on a longer term basis. There is just so much uncertainty! I can't ever remember a stranger time for the WORLD. Politically and monetarily the world is really just a complete mess! In the meantime -- I've found plenty to be happy about and that for me is the focus. It's still a two year wait list for a Ferrari 458 Spider.... houses are selling... people around me are busy and doing "stuff" - going on trips etc.... so the take-away is that 80+% of the folks are what really count. They have jobs - they pay their mortgage - and life goes on. Invest in that... and let the rest of the stuff just be "news making headlines". :cheers:

How about talking about BPT and the hammering it took the last few days!!

I am trying to figure out why, it's on it's way back up a little. But I'm trying to figure out what happened.

Seems to have something to do with future reports on the production decline and worry that it may be overvalued.

Talk of this pushed the trading and sell off up 20 fold..

There is a problem valuing future production and value.

I am still long on BPT.. If today is an indication , it should bounce back..

At 9% , it is a big payer, but also can go sideways quickly..

I use it as a small play in my mix, but I will hang on to it.

When it went down, the sell off accelerated, causing it to drop further..

Seeking Alpha has some info, and look up "blood in the bay".

Don't read anything into this response except as it pertains to ALL reading this thread... it's not really a response to YOU but a response to all.

I have said time and time again that it is up to YOU (all) to understand what it is you own and WHY you own it. Simply buying some name that "others" own or recommend is the surest way I know to loose your arse!

These "trusts" have all manor of tax considerations --- they're not just simple dividend payers! They pay outsized "dividends" but they're not just straight dividends - the dividend is used to reduce your share cost and blah blah blah... so they get different treatment. Master Limited Partnerships (MLP's) are similar --- such as Kinder Morgan Partners (KMP).... Unlike straight up dividends -- you're going to get a bunch of tax forms mailed to you - and your accountant is going to have to deal with them!

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE GUYS ---- Do some research and or ask some questions before buying some of this stuff. These are different than just buying shares in a "normal" company.


Nothing wrong with owning them! I'm just saying that when you're investing your hard earned money -- you've got to understand what you're buying! If you were buying a car -- you'd know every damn detail! Don't treat investing any differently. If you don't understand it --- move on --- or keep working on the details until you really "get it".

It's like the LLC's I'm invested in for apartments.... you don't want to put your money in them and then 3 or 4 years from now call the management up and say -- "hey dude! I need 100K from this investment will you send me a check?"..... UH..... NO!! That ain't how they work. You don't want to find that out AFTER you've put in your money!

These trusts and MLP's have been absolute cash cows.... but right now we have "UNCERTAINTY" over the tax treatment with the current administration talking big about how they plan to rob the rich to feed the poor etc..... so there's lots of movement of money in this stuff. People don't like standing in front of a freight train - so the big money just chooses to move it. When that happens --- you've got more sellers than buyers and bada bing bada boom - you get a decline in the price. The good news is -- that as the price goes down - the new buyers (at the lower price) get a better percentage dividend!

These trusts and MLP's are energy price sensitive! They are - after all - energy plays. If the price of oil is high -- they'll get a bigger check and their costs pretty much stay the same (the spread) -- so the payout will be bigger.... conversely as oil declines so does the payout. When you look at the dividend payout of BPT it's all over the board... it's always decent as a percentage - but it's all over the board as a dollar amount.

As Greg said, everyone has to do their research.

I apologize for recommending something. Right after I did, it turned south..

So i will stick to general Information on Investing and not specific Investments.

:cheers: :lateral:

It never fails Mike.... You can have a stock run to the moon... the minute you talk someone into buying it - DOWN SHE GOES!

I'd buy BPT in a heartbeat - and especially at these lower prices! Anybody that bought on my birthday (yesterday) is picking up an almost 12% dividend!


Sorry -- did the wrong math -- it's was a 12% dividend not a 14%

Thanks you guys, I appreciate the lesson. Although I bought to hold so I'm not all that worried as Mike said. Even at the high price it was still a very good yeild for the dividend.

I have now gotten my wife to invest and am going to invest savings for my 3 kids now as well.

Happy Birthday Greg...:thumbsup: :cheers:

Thanks Mike! I made it all the way to 59 so far!


EEEEEEEHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAA:cheers:

Happy Birthday Greg! :thumbsup:

happy B-day

Well Done...I made it to 49 and all hell broke loose..I am now 52 and getting my health back I hope.

My positive thinking is I am planning my Portfolio 30 to 40 years out, just in case..

If not, oh well, but if so, I can pay to have my Arse wiped..

Of course I had a GREAT day in the market, except for..........Yep. BPT...:willy:

Such is Life... Health willing, I hope to see you at an event one day..:cheers:

Bpt
 

So ---- as I've stated many times in the past "big money" (pro money) is way on top of their game compared to "us"..... they get their info faster... they're paid to stay abreast of any minutia in the markets....

So -- if you're in BPT you might want to investigate and read this. There are several links to more detail but this might tell you why you're getting your arses handed to you for right now.



http://www.investingdaily.com/15602/...et-slaughtered


Then there is a link to the main article that most likely started the sell off:


http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...984902960.html

Thats why i never tell people what i invest in, only the few that know and trust me, it always goes the same way, friend/relative begs for "tips" and it goes south and they think you were just doing a pump and dump. But when it goes right they just spend their time imagining how much you made and forget they just made money for nothing.

Here's something else that EVERYONE needs to be very wary of.... I've said it in past posts -- but it bears repeating:

If you THINK Obama is going to win -- and the Democrats retain control of the Senate....(the Republicans have control of the HOUSE)... Then you need to be prepared for what will happen regarding taxes etc - and that will have a big impact on dividends/interest etc. Because these folks are bound and determined to raise taxes so they can spend more.

If you THINK Romney is going to win -- then prepare for the market to go UP because people will feel "safe" about their investments and the tax situation.

While this seems like a long time from now --- we have a MAJOR election in NOVEMBER -- mere days from now. We also have these clowns returning from vacation after Labor Day... and they'll all be making a bunch of half witted statements in favor or his or her "guy". These people don't care about "markets" and they don't really care about your investments and or what their half witted statements affect. They're politicians - they only really care about getting and staying in control.

The MARKET will signal early what it thinks about where we're headed. You need to pay attention to this because it WILL affect you. Over a real long term not so much -- and I'm not saying SELL and I'm not saying BUY -- I'm saying PAY ATTENTION and see how it relates to your investments so that you understand why something is or isn't happening.


JUST TO BE PERFECTLY CLEAR --- When I say "these clowns" and "these people" --- I MEAN BOTH SIDES.... Democrats and Republicans

I agree with your Last post..

Although it has to do with Politics, we are not being Political..More like the economics that are a big part of the Political system.

I won't talk sides, but i know my strategy will be the same if Obama stays, and it will change if Romney comes in..

For me, the Federal Reserve and the Debt are a portion of my Strategy...

No anger or hate for one side or the other...Strictly Business...

And the uncertainty that Greg talks about is very High, and it has been for a long time..I am playing both sides of the fence so as not to get caught behind one fence if things go a way i did not think it would...Uncertainty brings caution..

The good thing is that to make this kind of money in this enviornment, just wait when things actually turn certain and we really go bullish...

But we won't really know until the first of 2013...Taxes, Leaders, a lot to be waiting on.. Soon we will know..

But I stay Invested all the time...No sitting on the sidelines in cash...Only enough for an emergency fund, and to purchase more if the time becomes right..And for monthly bills....All the rest are employee's at work..

Is this only if you sell the stock or will this be something anyone who owns stock in KPM will have to deal with every year?

Happy Birthday Greg.

Thanks

#1 -- Thanks!

#2 -- MLP's and Royalty Trusts are "DISTRIBUTIONS" rather than "dividends" - and as such have tax consequences. That doesn't mean you have a tax problem - it just means that they are shown on tax forms and you'll get tax forms sent to you for the amounts you receive.

#3 -- This doesn't mean much if they're held in IRA/ROTH accounts etc.

#4 -- Unless you have pretty large holdings of this stuff - you're unlikely to get enough distribution that it's going to have a taxable influence on your overall earnings. I wish that weren't so! I wished you all were getting 50K a year from these bad boys!

:woot:

What Mike said ---- I'm not pushing a political agenda..... I'm trying to teach you all to pay attention the things that matter to your financial futures. And to understand and relate how stuff influences the markets.

When you start to understand what makes markets move - either up or down - you can start to go "Uh.... yeah okay that's why the market did "X"" whatever X is.

Then it's not so scary!

It's kinda like understanding why you flooded the motor.... it's no big deal if you understand it.

Always good advice..That makes it easier to maybe see changes also

Thanks Greg. As you've said, paying taxes means you've made money. I'm quite alright being taxed to an extent on an investment. I was mainly concerned with do I need to keep an eye out for these tax forms once a year.

A man after my own heart! I love to have to pay HUGE taxes! 'Cause that means I made a killing! :rofl: :cheers:

Hyg & Jnk
 

You might notice a "disjointed" quote for these today when comparing say Google Finance and Schwab... and or you look at your account and it's showing a big drop in these two - compared to the quote...

For example:

Schwab is showing a .30 drop in shares of JNK --- when the print is only a .07 drop.


Schwab is ADDING the dividend payout... so a .23 distribution gone "ex" today to the print price of down .07 - thus showing "down" .30

Not sure why they're doing it this way -- cause a trade price is a trade price so they shouldn't be arbitrarily showing something different. Oh well....

Both HYG and JNK went "ex" today. Oh how I love cash payments! :unibrow: :woot:

Okay --- so I'm always looking for something of "interest" to post... so I'll post up my moves today and WHY. This is just a "way of thinking" --- not a "what you should do" post. I'm still in the Investing 102 mindset when I post this stuff and I'm trying to get you guys to be "comfortable" THINKING about your investments -- not being robots - not being "me too's". Investing is about putting your thinking cap on and doing what's right for YOU.

I "park" money in several places -- especially with all the uncertainty etc with Europe and with our own economy - the coming election etc. So I carry pretty large positions in JNK - HYG - PFF - NLY.... These are YIELD PLAYS while sitting on cash... OKAY! That is completely different than an INVESTMENT in say Coke - or Con Ed - or Kinder Morgan.

I'm splitting on a nice road trip for a couple weeks.... While I'm GONE -- there are several MARKET MOVING events that have the ability to make large swings in the markets and particularly the interest rate markets.... So
I don't want to be caught - out on a nice road trip - having to sit on pins and needles wondering what the market is going to do. Thus -- I SOLD all my JNK - HYG - PFF. I'm holding NLY as that's a bit more of an investment than the others here.... Now --- here's the deal.... and this is the THINKING PART OF THIS POST. JNK and HYG just went "EX" --- so I have a gain in the shares AND I just picked up the monthly distribution. I can come back from my trip and I still have time to buy them back and pick up next months distribution!

I'm playing with some pretty large $$ here... so for ME... this way of "money management" is important. I want to maximize my cash flow... I like GAINS over losses.... and I can get both by just paying a little attention and looking and thinking BEFORE I just buy or sell.

If the market reacts favorably to the "news" - great! I can always buy back... and if it doesn't like what it hears -- I can buy back at lower prices and get a % wise better distribution! Either way -- it's a win.

Would I do this with long term investments? Heck no.... but doing this (raising cash) will allow me to buy more of those should the market take a powder while I'm gone -- or before I re-invest the cash.... REMEMBER we like it when things go "on sale"! If the market goes lower or spikes down - I'll back the truck up and buy more shares at lower prices and increase my dividend % --- what's not to like about that? If it goes higher -- since I'm just parking this cash -- I'll just buy at higher prices.... but I'll also be able to sleep well while I'm "away" playing. :cheers:

Today looks like a good day.... and yet - when I look at what I own and what's "working" and what's not (lazy employees) I noticed that an energy play I have is the laziest. Enbridge Energy Partners (EEP) is down a $1.24 (4%) on a big up day....

That is the Investing 102 cue....

WHY? When everything is green is this one so red? Ya got to just poke around and see what's up.

Seems they offered up a "secondary". That's when a company issues (offers) MORE shares to the market. Usually these are priced at a discount to the current trading quote - so that big money buyers will soak them up and if the offering is below market -- the minute it gets back to "even" - they've got upside potential. They offered 14 million shares at a 3.6% discount to the market --- THUS --- the "price" for the common is now taken lower on the street since the company just valued (offered) to sell shares at a lower price. Makes sense I hope...

So.... is the company going south? No. Is the business bad? No Is there a fundamental change in the business? No Well then what changed? What changed is that they "went to the market to raise some more cash"... i.e., the "secondary offering" ---- they are sellers --- and they get the cash. Usually this is done when companies are making acquisitions... etc. Because if they just needed money to operate --- nobody would buy the stuff! It's kinda like needing a loan --- if you go to the bank because you desperately need money - they won't give it to you! But if you don't really need it - you can borrow all day long! :unibrow:

So with these facts in hand --- in other words --- I went out to find out why this is selling off 4% and found out --- and when I saw what I needed to know I doubled down.... WHY? Because a company I like that pays a pretty good dividend just went ON SALE.... and now all it needs to do is come back to where it was and I have a 4% gain on the new shares. OBVIOUSLY that's IF it comes back. But this isn't FACEBOOK (FB)... :lol:


Again -- this is not a recommendation to buy or sell this company. I'm just using it as an example to show the way I (BIG I) think and use the market. :cheers:

Greg how do you find out this information so quickly? I find simple google searches do not help. Is there a website you recommend?

yeah been wondering the same thing.

I go to Google Finance ---- pull up a 'quote' for the stock I'm interested in and read the news that is listed down the right hand side. The "news" is shown in alphabetical order as related to the same alphabet shown in the time line on the chart... so you can relate news with a "move" or point in time.


If you use (EEP) for instance -- you'll see a big "gap down" with the alphabet starting at "C" --- and a bunch more stacked up behind it so D - E - F etc and the related "news" is about the secondary offering.

Then I'll read the "10K" for that offering info which comes along with news like this to see what the company says it will use the money for... OR in this case -- I clicked on news article "B" and that news article detailed the 10K filing and I got my info.

BRILLIANT HUH?? :unibrow: :unibrow: :D

How sad..... but this thread aims to change that! Now that's hope and change you can understand! :lol:



http://marketday.nbcnews.com/_news/2...udy-finds?lite

Thanks for the insight again :thumbsup: :thumbsup: always useful