Just be sure to remember the happy days -- and think LONG TERM -- cause there will be times when you'll have suicidal thoughts!

Pretty easy to look and think you're brilliant when the market is going your way.

Trust me -- you'll have completely different view when the market sucks.

The winners are the ones that can overcome and have a larger longer view. :cheers:

I should also mention that I was nearly convinced by a friends sister - had the plan and papers ready to sign ( she is a broker for JP morgan ) that I should use some of the equity in my properties to invest and use as a tax write off. Looking at this now it was pure madness, especially considering their fee's and her cut. Much happier now.:)

Now especially with a family on the way I really need to make the "right" decisions for our future - perfecting timing on reading this thread..

It will go down for sure, because i own it. murphy follows me around alot.

Sorry for the inconvenience, closed due to weather. :D

US Market closures due to severe weather in the New York area

Due to severe weather in the New York area, US equity and option markets will be closed on Monday, October 29, 2012. The bond market will close early at noon ET. There will be no Pre-Market Trading session or After Hours Trading session on Monday, October 29.

Please see the following press releases for more details:
NYSE: http://www.nyse.com/press/1351243418010.html
NASDAQ: http://www.nasdaqtrader.com/TraderNe...?id=ETA2012-44

Domestic equity and option orders placed while the markets are closed will be pending until the markets reopen. Cancelled orders will show as "cancel pending."

The Canadian Markets will be open on Monday, October 29, 2012, and Canadian equity orders will route to the Canadian exchanges. Please contact Charles Schwab's Global Investing Service at 1-800-992-4685 with any questions or for assistance with placing trades in Canada or other international markets.

See what happens when I go off to play?



:D

Due to Lateral-G's chief strategist taking the day off and the potential lack of trading activity the markets have also decided to take the off.......:D

Buy tires manufacturers! I seem to by buying a lot of them lately.... :rofl:

Thanks to your investing strategies you don't have to cringe when buying them!

I'll assume they have tire vendors with good pricing at the track similar to motorcycle track days?

Not to jack this INVESTING thread with car info.... but this is a car website!

LOL


The new Michellin Pilot Super Sports made the car (Audi R8 Spyder) far far quieter! They're not as thump over uneven pavement... and the ride is noticeably smoother. Sometimes there is a "blessing in disguise".... the PZeros aren't half the tire these new ones are.

:thumbsup:

Here's a quick look at ONE track day (5 - 20 minute sessions on a 2.75 mile track) did to a set of tires (PZeros).





http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/a...EMA/file-3.jpg

You just started to get through the consumer rubber into the race rubber and swapped them out?! :D

Looks like you were having a real good time! :thumbsup:

Blame it on the wife driving.

Kinder Morgan Partners (KMP)
 

Well --- opened up the account after a long day at SEMA -- and see Kinder Morgan Partners (KMP) is down hard (a buck seventy) === but of course a quick check to see why === and it's because they went "ex" dividend today... so they pay $1.26 per share....

Now only my feet hurt! And not my wallet (so much). :rofl:

With the Obama "win" (to me it's like he backed into it AGAIN - with barely half in favor) we wake up to a sell off in the market. No surprise here. So if you're wondering what should you do.... My advice would be to just sit back and watch for buys.

Remember -- if you're invested for the long haul - and that's a KEY STATEMENT -- then you will see your investments not be in the green column some times. BUT if you're invested in dividend stocks then they're going to keep paying - and they're going to be re-invested.... and over a 15 - 20 - 30 year timeframe you will be rewarded regardless of the taxes etc that people will stew over in the short term.

If you're living off the dividends - as I do - I sold half off all my holdings this morning. I have HUGE gains so want to lock in the long term capital gains at 15%. I will have a large pool of cash to begin to redeploy when I have more certainty in how my gains and income will be treated. Please remember that my holdings (that I use for this thread) are pretty large. Positions are in the 15 or 20 or 40 thousands of SHARES.... these are large numbers so if I sell half of a 40,000 share position - I still have 20,000 shares of "XXX". Again - I'm not trying to say "look at me" - I'm trying to show you and share with you all "my" thinking. It's easy for me to pull cash and profit out of the market temporarily and still have income and gain/loss and keep on truckin'. I still have a large Muni Bond portfolio which pays tax free income and I haven't done any moves there. I would - but the income that laddered bond portfolio pays - couldn't be re-invested in anything that's "as safe" and produces that 4% tax free. But as they mature (annually) I won't re-invest them in lower rate bonds...

So here's where the Obama "anti wealth" / "anti success" / "tax and spend" stance has a DIRECT AFFECT on someone like me.

I have an opportunity to invest in a 244 unit apartment complex in Tucson, AZ.... it would pay about 7%... but I WON'T make that commitment (which means I won't invest in it) because that investment doesn't pan out IF I'm going to pay 30 or 40% income taxes on the income stream. My guess is that the deal doesn't get done. Therefore the seller won't have a sale - and the potential investors will just sit on their cash because they're "uncertain". The sales people won't get the commissions so won't pay any taxes... and down the bowl the water flows.

That's why the USA NEEDS investments/investors and people that CREATE income. When you have income - you spend it - which creates income for others - and then every time that buck changes hands - the government takes a little cut of it. No spending - no changing hands - no taxes created. Real simple. :D

Not to get political but since al of my friends are pissed about the election outcome I am scratching my head as to why... On purely a finical basis if you income is sub 200K (like most of us) why would one say Obama over Romney or Visa versa? Asked another way if you were making 199K in income would your investment above still be a loser?

I'd also like more info here. I've been tossing this around for a while regarding the proposed tax hike on Capital gains and such and am curious why you would choose not to make that investment. Receiving a dividend check regardless of size as a result of your investment is still more money in your pocket. Just not as much now that you're paying 30% tax rather than 15%. Im not saying its right or wrong or that Im in favor of tax hikes but just trying to wrap my head around it.

I'm GUESSING based off what i read in Greg's comment, that he's not going to tie up that amount of cash in an investment that only is going to return 7%, and then be taxed 30-40% of that money, netting him a 3-4% return. I'm guessing there will likely be a better ROI to be had out there than that 3-4% for the amount of money to be tied up for that amount of time.

But i could be totally wrong. thats just how I understood it. lol

Like most POLITICAL discussions -- it's about IDEOLOGY rather than actual fact. With this particular POTUS... you're either with him - or against just about everything he stands for. When you have that - you have people that are either elated or they're PO'd.

Frankly -- and I don't want to turn this into a political discussion because nobody "wins" those and there really is no agreement to be had... but the Republican PARTY is to blame here. For the second election in a row they have given us someone that can't win... thereby delivering a victory to the Democrats. You can't run an "ultra rich/lilly white/Mormon" guy that even part of the lilly white rich guys can't get behind... and win. I believe that if you would have taken ONE of the two negatives out (pick one - Rich - White - Mormon) the outcome might have been different.

Forgetting the political.. the pending legislation/climate (next 4 years) will it effect those who make 199K and less from a PURE tax impact?

What I have read thus far is the people who are effected are those who benefit from handouts and those who make over 200K... is that wrong?

Property investments - and in particular INVESTMENT/COMMERCIAL properties are valued solely based on the return. The return is weighed against other returns offered elsewhere. It's just math. The only real way to invest in these types of properties is the combination of the cash flow and the increase in value when sold - so just like stocks - it's the TOTAL RETURN.

So two things come into play here. These are multi million dollar investments.... 7% return tied up for 10 years or so looks great if you think interest rates and returns would be "sub" that. But if we are going to tax these types of investments at ordinary income rates - then you have to take 40% off that 7%... and if we go to sell - and normal interest rates are lets say 5% 10 years from now - then the selling price of the property would be less than we paid... because the sales price will be based off the income the property can produce.

Now - if over the holding period we can raise rental rates - fine - then there's more cash flow etc - but then that would also mean that we're most likely seeing INFLATION... that inflation rate baked into the final sales price to another investor group would also affect the asking price.

Basically -- I'm making a 10 year "bet" on interest rates - property values etc. Since I'm not certain about much of that.... then I'll choose NOT to make that bet and stay more liquid rather than lock up a couple million into an investment that is NOT liquid at all and that I can't call the shots on because I'm not the managing partner - I'm only along for the ride.

Those that are lower earners - are probably not big investors... their incomes may be dependent on OTHERS making investments and building stuff etc. So rightly or wrongly - they're affected by what others are going to do.

If you're a real estate sales person - you depend on TRANSACTIONS for your income... no transactions - no income. Ditto the home inspector - the loan officer... None of whom probably make $250K per year. This is just ONE example but you can multiply this for almost every industry where the "average guy" works. If we don't build buildings - we don't need workers/welders/steel/glass/excavators/ and on and on.

Let's go back to when they put a 10% LUXORY tax on Boats over a certain $$ value... and Furs... and Cars over a certain $$ value. What happened? 60,000 (actual fact - look it up) people BUILDING boats lost their jobs because the rich guys buying those boats just didn't buy them... and high end car sales plummeted. They changed that tax but by then it was too late for all the "little people" that lost their job.

People have CHOICES.... the more income and more wealth someone has - the more choices they have. They choose where and how to invest and when you think about it - in reality - if ONE rich guy buys a 100' yacht - there were maybe 100 people working to build it.... so when that guy decides to NOT buy that... then you have fall out.

Obama doesn't understand ANY of that - because he's never had a real job or run a business... :unibrow:

Well, it is what it is. I am not posting politics, but my financial opinion.

I am not a really wealthy guy, so this is going to be an interesting time for me.

I think the election is part of the "punish the wealthy " tour..But strangely , those that voted for Obama end up shooting themselves in the head and not the foot. Many are young and see this as a "victory"..I think long term it won't be a victory for them at all..

If we were sidelining money due to unceratinty, what do they think we will do now...Debt,Taxes, Obamacare, ect...will only have brutal consequences on where we put our money..So if we don't invest, then Jobs are not created or kept..

I only see the middle getting crushed in the near future...The poor will stay as they are, and the really wealthy will weather the storm..The middle will suffer. Just my opinion, but sadly i think I am right..

I think I follow. And now compound that with your other example and people have lost out on job opportunities. Now would you have the same outlook on purchasing 20K shares of XYZ div. paying stock or is that business as usually assuming all other factors remains the same.

Yes the big guys wont have the ability to buy a X Million dollar real estate investment... that really wont effect the home inspector for example. who makes all of his $$ form the middle class buyers who need a mortgage...

What I am learning here is that the ones that are affected believe in the ole Trickle down effect... and all I am saying is..
I don't need an hand out.. don't want to wait for the therotitical trickle down stuff.. let me get my own and don't tax the hell out of me...
What i think I am learning is the threshold for that is 200K and that covers 95% (from the bureau of taxation's website) of the US population including me
:-)

oh man I was doing pretty good on my IRA but its a blood bath today.
It may go into negative territory.

In terms of tax impact for those of us making under 200-250k, I wouldn't anticipate any notable change unless you are into real estate, where the capital gain taxes going up could impact you (you'd be making a profit, but keeping less of it).

Keep in mind that if actual tax rates go up to levels from the 90s, it's still progressive meaning that your taxes would go up a few percentage points for income above a certain level. Let's say I make 205k and the tax rate for income over 200k goes up by 2%. I pay just 2% more on the 5k as a result of that increase.

Obviously in the case of some of these types of gains, or your situation the actual increase may be higher and for investment purposes you have options. Greg has talked about municiple bonds which may be an option since they are less/not exposed to these shifts. Chances are though that many other people will be thinking the same thing and the yields may drop in turn making it effectively the same as it was in terms of actual yield compared to other bonds.

Also, to keep things in perspective note that tax rates right now are historically low. Just about 50 years ago, the top tax rate was > 90%.

Yes that basically what i was getting at... purely from a tax perspective this is a better outcome for 95% of the population.. So why is everyone crying about the taxes that come form Romney losing.. confused...:question:

Dividend stocks taxed from 15% to at least 25% or more ? Not too confusing at all...

Or if they go from 15% to Income tax rates of ???? That is the problem...Or at least one of the many problems...:cheers:

Well the MAJOR difference in stocks vs hard assets is that stocks are liquid. I can change that (stocks) investment with a few keystrokes... with a commercial building I have marketing time - commission costs - marketing costs... and I'm a hostage to what the prevailing market is -- and what my PARTNERS want to do. With stocks or bonds -- it's just me -- and $8.95 for a buy and a sale... whether it's $500 or $5,000,000.... :D

If you believe that the tax money will just be thrown into an incinerator (or given to poorer people), you might just dislike the idea of higher taxes even if it doesn't impact you.

The reality is that whoever won, chances are taxes on the higher earners would have to increase. You can't cut your way out of debt without tremendous economic issues (see: Greece), and you can't tax your way out either and both sides fundementally know this. Expect a balanced package of cuts and tax increases, none of which is drastic, but some of which may affect you in one way or another.

The taxation will be interesting. I am a recent graduate from Residency and practicing hospital medicine. I make a nice living. Doctors have taken a 30 percent pay cut or more from Medicare in the not too recent past. My education cost north of 200K and that has an impact on what I bring home. It seems as though there is a breaking point with taxes and your income. I can influence mine easily by how hard I choose to work. I work 16 plus hours a day now, but if this level of work pushes a person into a higher tax bracket, some of my colleagues will choose to work less hours and bring home about the same net dollars and spend more time with their family. If this happens, it will contribute further to the supply/demand issues we are going to have with physicians as baby boomers age. You are almost de-incentivizing hard work. I don't understand the thought of you make more, you should pay more.
Of course, if I become a government employee with Obamacare, I imagine I won't have much control over my tax bracket. It stinks to finally make some money and then the game changes on you in spite of your hard work.

A couple of words on "taxes".


It's not that ANYONE can or can't pay more percentage in taxes.... What we're "politically" talking about though is different:

Fundamental belief #1.

The government is better at spending your money than you are... therefore you should just go along with whatever the government has planned for your money. i.e., send more to China for debt service... pay for Obamacare... pay for Welfare... pay for more government "programs" etc.


Fundamental belief #2.


Let me earn as much money as possible (the American way) - pay a percentage of taxes to the government... let them do with it as they wish - let ME spend money on investing to make even more money... pay more taxes - and spend money buying STUFF which then the person selling it to me pays taxes... and he's making money so he's spending money so the guy he buys stuff from makes money and buys stuff from someone else... Each transaction there had a tax paid associated with it.

Fundamentally - nobody is really sure which way is "the best"... but I sure as hell know that when I'm making money and spending money... the economy benefits. Sending more interest payments to China... Taking care of the illegals in the emergency room... I'm not so certain about that. I look at EUROPE and see their socialist, high tax rate, get "free" everything way of government and I don't see that working so well for them.

The countries that do the best - are the countries that actually MAKE STUFF.... China being a shining example of an economy that has gone bananas because they're a manufacturing powerhouse! They went from making stick and twig brooms to making iPhones.... and we're now borrowing from them -- so we can give that iPhone to people that make NOTHING - do NOTHING - and employ no one.

As usual, you have a great way to make a point....

Well written and to the point...No B.S. and both sides of the coin. Let the reader decide what they believe...Good Job..:cheers:

There is no situation in which you work less and bring home the the same because of tax brackets assuming the amount you work is tied directly to your income. You don't suddenly enter a 100% tax bracket.

Not to mention that tax brackets have only been going down for basically this entire century. The real reasons for supply/demand issues for doctors are varied, and the government certainly plays a part but you can't simultaneously say you should be taxed even less than you are now, and complain about medicare reimbursements that the government is basically putting on a credit card.

Okay --- so let's get back on INVESTING....


Politics will never be "settled"... and so far I've managed to live well regardless of who is in office, for some 59 years. In the end - it's the S.S.D.D. :D

Still, good info. No bashing, just mature opinions. WHICH IS WHY THIS IS THE BEST THREAD GOING!!!

Because without the beans (coin), we can't fart (make car stuff and drive faster etc)

Good luck all in the time to come, i'm a newb investor and am cautionly optimistic, cause we'll need it. I wish i could contribute more(data), but i is still gettin edjumakated...

Mike

Yep Mike.... serves no point to call names - or make dumb statements. You just work with the info you have and plan a plan and work it. As things change you adjust. If you don't - you don't make it. In the end - everything will be fine... and we'll all make money IN THE LONG RUN - and that's the goal.

:thumbsup:

Wow!
 

Stocks that would be hurt by Obama's preference for stiff regulations, such as banks, sold off sharply. And to make matters worse Wednesday, worries about Europe's debt crisis returned to the top of investors' what-to-worry-about list.

Add it all up and what you get is a "Molotov cocktail that created a pretty severe bout of selling," says Andy Busch, a public policy strategist at BMO Capital Markets.

To say the negative mood hurt stocks would be an understatement, as Wall Street was awash in red ink all day. The damage inflicted was severe. About $400 billion in stock market value vanished in the trading session, according to Wilshire Associates.

So there are some people here wondering why some people might be a bit upset about taxing people that make over 250k / year. I am one one of the upset people and I'll try to explain a bit why even though I will fall under 250k. While my taxes are unlikely to change this year because most of my dividend investments are in a tax deferred account, my net worth took a pretty sharp stick in the eye today. Why? Because of all the examples Greg and others have mentioned. We have a huge amount of uncertainty. We don't have a plan. We don't know what taxes are going to look like for the next 4 years. We don't know how the fiscal cliff is going to be addressed. I can deal with a day down 2%. Unfortunately, there is a good chance to have lots of 2% down days with this uncertainty. And just in case you haven't connected all the dots, the Weld's of the world pull out first, and John Q Public's 401k pulls out last. So all those 401k's of people making under 250k per year lose a HUGE percentage of these market swings. And while people under 250k / year won't pay more taxes, you have a big drop in worth. And while those over 250k / year might pay a higher tax percentage of their income in taxes, the gap between these two groups tends to widen. Like Greg mentioned. Tax revenue is easy to generate when big money is moving. When its not, trouble brews and no tax plan is viable.

I'll just say I'm not happy and leave it at that.

I'm with Todd on this (it happens sometimes :lol:) positive thinking and just go about your business and control what you can control. That's all any of us can do.

This thread has dabbled in Real Estate and interest rate talk here and there so I'll share what I'm doing. The building my business has been in since starting in 2006 is being torn down soon for condos. So I negotiated a shorter lease end (he didn't care, he is knocking down the building soon anyway and would have had to compensate me somehow for an early term on his part) and wanted to control our destiny and timing vs getting a 60 notice to vacate or something like that in the next year.

I have liked where commercial real estate prices have been and now they have converged with insanely low rates. We are buying a commercial condo nearby with 50% more space than we need (to grow into) and it's a nicer building.

SBA loan, 10% down, combined interest rate in the 4's, and the price is 38 cents on the dollar of what the high watermark was in 2008. I like those numbers.