Probably so!


Hadn't thought about that!


:thumbsup:

I found this "interesting" and spot on statement about Annaly Capital Management (NLY).... and thought I'd share it.

No one buys these mREITs because they love the mortgage business. People buy them because they like to collect high dividends. Everything being equal, declining mortgage rates equals a lower spread equals a lower dividend equals a lower stock price, and that is exactly what we saw in the case of NLY.

I work for FICO and I can tell you that the reason people often can't figure out how their FICO score is calculated is because we often can't figure that out either. :lol: I won't go into detail.

Love this thread. Learning a lot. Thanks to all the contributors. :thumbsup:

Looks like a good buyers market right now, some deals to be had. Alot of my portfolio is in the red since Obama was re-elected but that's ok. Sticking to them win or lose like Greg's suggested.

I wouldn't be buying YET... keep your powder dry... I'm thinking we have many more days / weeks yet to listen to the two sides go at each other with guns and knives ------ and that will roil the markets.

I laughed at the FICO score deal -- because I said to the guy -- DUDE! I don't need ANY credit -- so whatever it is doesn't bother me one bit! I just thought it was funny that the two would be different numbers. I also found it interesting that both of ours are LOWER because we don't have revolving debt! WTF! I have 3 credit cards --- two with 60K limit and one with 100K limit - I don't OWE ON ANY OF THEM -- and that's considered a "negative". Really? My thinking is that I should be given a friggin' gold star! And apparently I get NO credit for my net worth either.... or that I own 13 cars with ZERO payments.... again that must be considered a negative? OMG! No wonder our world is so screwed up!! :rofl:

Amen....I went 10% into cash and took profits before the election...That is my powder and I will wait ...I see it getting worse before it gets better...No one knows where the bottom is, but IMO, we are not there yet..

And yes, my Wife's FICO is 25 points higher than mine :willy:

FICO score HAH! I see it this way.. (could be right or wrong but its how I feel)

Your score does not tell how capable you are of paying a creditor but tells a creditor how well you pay your creditor. In other words... do you have history of paying interest. The more reliable you are at paying interest, the more valuable you are to them hence the higher score. So in essence we are paying a fee (interest payments) to get a higher score so that more creditors will want to offer us loans so that we can pay MORE interest. :willy:


^ not the most eloquently written response on this thread but....

You nailed it Chris. It's a combination of your credit history AND your record of paying interest reliably on revolving debt. The more often you run a little balance on the credit card, the higher the score. Ass-backwards of course, but the score is tailored more for marketing than anything.

Greg, next time I see you I'll have a gold star for you. Big ass thing that'll cover the back of your shirt. :thumbsup:

I decided this morning that I'd publish the last 6 months of DIVIDENDS on the Schwab account. WHY? Because I want to remind you all about what the dividend is doing -- REGARDLESS of what the SHARE PRICE is doing. IN other words --- I'm getting REAL LIVE CASH CONSTANTLY.... the share price today is NOT important as long as these companies are sending me checks --- it's NOT important really - until I want to sell. If I don't want to sell - then the daily share price is nothing but a place marker. :D






Date Action Quantity Symbol Description Price Amount Fees & Comm
11/14/2012 KMP KINDER MORGAN ENERGY LP UNIT LTD PARTNERSHIP INT
type: ORD DIV - CASH
$15,120.00
11/13/2012 3903609 GEN ELEC CAP 6.625XXXPARTIAL CALL @ 25.
type: CREDIT INT
$1,707.18
11/01/2012 T A T & T INC NEW
type: QUALIFIED DIV
$6,600.00
10/30/2012 SCHWAB1 INT 09/27-10/29
type: INTEREST
$5.51
10/29/2012 NLY ANNALY CAPITAL MGMT REIT
type: ORD DIV - CASH
$17,500.00
10/10/2012 MO ALTRIA GROUP INC
type: QUALIFIED DIV
$8,800.00
10/05/2012 HYG ISHARES TRUST IBOXX $ HIGH YIELD CORP
type: ORD DIV - CASH
$9,701.68
10/01/2012 KO COCA COLA COMPANY
type: QUALIFIED DIV
$3,825.00
09/28/2012 GEA GEN ELEC CAP 6.625%32PINES DUE 06/28/32
type: CREDIT INT
$4,140.63
09/27/2012 SCHWAB1 INT 08/30-09/26
type: INTEREST
$7.35
09/17/2012
as of
09/15/2012 ED CONSOLIDATED EDISON INC
type: QUALIFIED DIV
$3,630.00
09/12/2012 JNK SPDR BARCLAYS CAPITAL HIGH YIELD BOND ETF
type: ORD DIV - CASH
$6,682.32
09/10/2012 HYG ISHARES TRUST IBOXX $ HIGH YIELD CORP
type: ORD DIV - CASH
$5,845.32
09/10/2012 PFF ISHARES S&P U S PFD FUNDS&P U S PFD STK INDEX FD
type: ORD DIV - CASH
$2,516.50
08/30/2012 INTEREST 07/30THRU 08/29
type: MARGIN INTEREST
-$29.73
08/30/2012 SCHWAB1 INT 07/30-08/29
type: INTEREST
$2.05
08/15/2012 NNN NATIONAL RETAIL PPTYS REIT
type: ORD DIV - CASH
$4,740.00
08/14/2012 KMP KINDER MORGAN ENERGY LP UNIT LTD PARTNERSHIP INT
type: ORD DIV - CASH
$4,920.00
08/14/2012 EEP ENBRIDGE ENERGY PTNRS LP
type: ORD DIV - CASH
$5,435.00
08/09/2012 JNK SPDR BARCLAYS CAPITAL HIGH YIELD BOND ETF
type: ORD DIV - CASH
$2,296.25
08/07/2012 HYG ISHARES TRUST IBOXX $ HIGH YIELD CORP
type: ORD DIV - CASH
$3,280.55
08/07/2012 PFF ISHARES S&P U S PFD FUNDS&P U S PFD STK INDEX FD
type: ORD DIV - CASH
$2,514.86
08/01/2012 T A T & T INC NEW
type: QUALIFIED DIV
$6,600.00
07/31/2012 BLW BLACKROCK LTD DURATION INCOME TRUST
type: ORD DIV - CASH
$1,075.00
07/30/2012 INTEREST 06/28THRU 07/29
type: MARGIN INTEREST
-$15.74
07/30/2012 SCHWAB1 INT 06/28-07/29
type: INTEREST
$1.91
07/26/2012 NLY ANNALY CAPITAL MGMT REIT
type: ORD DIV - CASH
$19,250.00
07/12/2012 PM PHILIP MORRIS INTL INC
type: QUALIFIED DIV
$5,390.00
07/11/2012 JNK SPDR BARCLAYS CAPITAL HIGH YIELD BOND ETF
type: ORD DIV - CASH
$2,356.51
07/10/2012 MO ALTRIA GROUP INC
type: QUALIFIED DIV
$8,200.00
07/09/2012 HYG ISHARES TRUST IBOXX $ HIGH YIELD CORP
type: ORD DIV - CASH
$3,366.31
07/09/2012 PFF ISHARES S&P U S PFD FUNDS&P U S PFD STK INDEX FD
type: ORD DIV - CASH
$2,464.25
07/03/2012 KMB KIMBERLY-CLARK CORP
type: QUALIFIED DIV
$1,480.00
07/02/2012
as of
07/01/2012 KO COCA COLA COMPANY
type: QUALIFIED DIV
$2,040.00
06/29/2012 BLW BLACKROCK LTD DURATION INCOME TRUST
type: ORD DIV - CASH
$1,075.00
06/28/2012 GEA GEN ELEC CAP 6.625%32PINES DUE 06/28/32
type: CREDIT INT
$4,140.63
06/28/2012 SCHWAB1 INT 05/30-06/27
type: INTEREST
$1.47
06/15/2012 MCD MC DONALDS CORP
type: QUALIFIED DIV
$3,500.00
06/15/2012 ED CONSOLIDATED EDISON INC
type: QUALIFIED DIV
$3,025.00
06/11/2012 JNK SPDR BARCLAYS CAPITAL HIGH YIELD BOND ETF
type: ORD DIV - CASH
$2,368.39
06/07/2012 HYG ISHARES TRUST IBOXX $ HIGH YIELD CORP
type: ORD DIV - CASH
$3,523.85
06/07/2012 PFF ISHARES S&P U S PFD FUNDS&P U S PFD STK INDEX FD
type: ORD DIV - CASH
$2,428.70
06/01/2012 JPM+I JPMORGAN CHASE 8.625%PFDDEP SHS REPSTG 1/400 NON
type: QUALIFIED DIV
$4,042.97
05/31/2012 BLW BLACKROCK LTD DURATION INCOME TRUST
type: ORD DIV - CASH
$1,050.00
05/30/2012 SCHWAB1 INT 04/27-05/29
type: INTEREST
$2.34
05/22/2012 KFN KKR FINANCIAL HLDGS LLC REIT
type: ORD DIV - CASH
$2,700.00
05/15/2012 NNN NATIONAL RETAIL PPTYS REIT
type: ORD DIV - CASH
$2,695.00
05/15/2012 KMP KINDER MORGAN ENERGY LP UNIT LTD PARTNERSHIP INT
type: ORD DIV - CASH
$7,200.00
05/15/2012 EEP ENBRIDGE ENERGY PTNRS LP
type: ORD DIV - CASH
$5,325.00

I didn't break out a calculator but that looks to be in the neighborhood of 200k. Sweet return for letting your money work for 6 months.

:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Still giving us great information Greg, thanks. I still dont understand alot of it. Apple is kicking my butt, I keep telling myself, remember long term, and dividends, so I am not panicing.

On the bright side we are saving a little, and have been able all year to pay cash for things that normally we would have to charge. Thanks.

Funny how when the market is down like last year during the 400 point drops and now after the election, I get calls from investment firms asking,"How am I doing " ?

They don't call me on the up days...They want to review my portfolio....No thanks...

I never add it up - so couldn't tell you what it is. Let's just say that I don't have any cash flow problems.... and this is just ONE account. :woot:

My point is... if you've invested your 401 or ROTH IRA.... then you shouldn't be concerned about the markets ups and downs. If you pulled out now in order to save yourself the market sell off..... you'd miss out on the dividends.... while you were in cash. Then I guarantee you that congress would announce overnight that they've settled on a fiscal cliff fix... and the market would go up 500 points and you'd miss out on that too! That's the problem.

Let's say the market goes south ala 2007.... and it just steps down and down and down daily and weekly for a year. You're down 35%. BUT -- you'd still be getting the dividends and they'd be buying shares down there at the low prices every quarter... they'd be adding to your share count FASTER than if the prices where higher! Now each one of those shares is paying a dividend - they're like rabbits - the more shares you have the more shares you buy.... 10 years from now you'd not be worrying about what happened to the friggin' fiscal cliff!! :cheers:

Anyone care to chime in on where i should look next for my next area of investment for some good diversification?

I currently own these in my ROTH IRA. And all roughly the same value ($1k-1.5K)

I ready to make my next $1k purchase to (i think) round out my $5k ROTH for the year! (woohoo! maxed that puppy out!)

Anywho, here we go:

ABT
CVX
ED
KMB
KO
MCD
MO
T

I was thinking something in the transportation (railroads) arena, or construction, or, jump back into a high yield one (NLY?) since its nicely valued now or something of that nature to bring up my overall yeild?. lol

Or, should I just hold out and wait for something later, if this market keeps going lower?

thoughts?

(By the way, I'm gettinb 0.8% interest on this cash before I toss it into my Roth. and I can hold onto it a couple months into 2013 and still back fill my $5k 2012 ROTH allotment. If its suggested i stick with cash so I can "be ready" to jump onto something)

Got any bleeders in that current group you might want to "average down" on? I'd be looking at that FIRST....

If not this instant -- you do have until April 15th to fund I think?? If that's true -- I'd wait until we see some clarity on the "fiscal cliff" negotiations.

My big bleeder was MCD at 10%, which I averaged down to ~4% last week (after my break even sell on NLY).

Right now, Im looking at:

ABT = -8.4 (so i would cut that in half)
CVX = -4.65 (i would probably cut that down to around -3)
ED = -6.08 (that would be cut in half)
KMB = +5.87
KO = -2.25 (Id cut that in half)
MCD = -5.52 (that would be cut to about 4)
MO = +0.36
T = -1.01 (could cut that to in half)

Only worthy ones I see close would be ABT or ED. ABT is now paying a 3.2% yield on that price (and soon to split into two separate companies in Jan, so who knows what that could bring (+ outcome)/take away (- outcome)). ED is paying a 4.4% yield now, which is actually pretty good. Their recent "down fall" recently being the result of Sandy, could go down farther depending on their outcome of this whole "how they handled the hurricane situation" investigation that's being dumped on them.

Come 2013, I'll have another "buy moment" with another $1k ready for purchases too as I am about 2 months "ahead" in my ROTH investment to reach $5k/yr. Which sit in a 0.8% savings account until I'm ready to make my buy. Otherwise they sit in the ROTH IRA cash account at 0%. So i try and work the system for just a few extra bucks a month. ;)

I'd put more into ED right now.... I did personally. The "I'm on sale" light is flashing due to the issues you sighted --- SANDY. That will go away in a couple quarters or maybe even next quarter. This is a steady eddy. It pays "decently" - events like this cause it be on sale. I'll take that any day. :cheers:

What you'll get is the rise back to the norm (always makes me feel good) AND the dividend.

Yeah... good point. Thanks for asking "the question" which made me think differently about it. 4.4% is a pretty solid yield in my book ;). :thumbsup:

Today was the kind of day I talk about..... A little "kiss and a promise" about the fiscal cliff and all of a sudden stuff jumps.


That's the problem with trying to "time" the market. You'll never be in to get the nice bumps - if you'd sold out trying to protect the downside. You'll never get out at the top - and you'll never catch the bottom. Just give up and invest and ride it out. The dividends will come in -- and eventually you'll be a winner.

That's why I say to scale in and scale out. If you want out of a stock -- okay -- sell half and wait...

Same with buying in.

Now ---- if you have enough money. As in millions or hundreds of thousands invested.... THEN you can afford to take some off the table when you have outsized gains -- and sit on the side - but I'm talking about a situation where you're still going to have major skin in the game. :cheers:

Well --- Personally I'm glad all you guys are in the market now.... it makes life interesting doesn't it?


What a difference two days make! Friday nice - Monday even nicer! And that's why I say -- when you have some dough -- just put it in. You can't telegraph these kinds of days. Either UP or DOWN!


Here's what I think will happen (or could happen) -- people are hoping against hope that Congress is going to solve for the fiscal cliff... so we get these spikes. My guess is - we'll get a spike or two on the downside before it's all over. Pelosi and Boenher aren't going to just roll over. They'll get greedy at some point and we'll see a disappointed market move.

Remember! We buy on those kinds of days --- not on days like Friday and today. Even if it's 50 cents or a dollar per share... it's the SWING we want if at all possible. The difference is the dollar down to a dollar up swing is 2 bucks. But over the long haul that little bit of difference isn't going to make or break an investors portfolio! It's just that if you think you're in a wild market swing period -- then if you can catch a dip -- it makes you feel better. :D

++++++++++++++++++++++++



Now ---- I read an article over the weekend that tried to explain the big selloff we've had as --- ALL THE RICH PEOPLE ARE SELLING THEIR BIGGEST GAINERS IN ORDER TO LOCK IN THE 15% CAP GAINS RATE....

I totally agree with "some" of that. I did it myself. Why not? I had half a million in long term cap gains... might as well capture that at 15% tax rather than wait next year - maybe it goes up from there and maybe it goes down - but they've telegraphed that they want this rate UP from here...

BUT --- THERE'S ALWAYS A BIG BUTT --- All these so called rich guys are then sitting on CASH. What are they going to do with it?? Bonds don't pay squat -- CD's? Ha! What a laugh.... Real estate? Yeah maybe.... once we see the tax rates... but my guess is - the majority will go right back into stocks.

Where else are you going to make any money on your money? I'll take 5% dividend, and maybe some capital growth, and pay 20% tax -- vs -- 2% and pay nothing (muni bonds) and be guaranteed zero capital growth.


In the end -- it will return to MAKING MONEY. The tax is just a byproduct of that.

Great info GW

What a nice upswing today.

I believe its days like this that make it worth sticking through all the down days.

Yes sir...That is what Long term investing is all about...:woot:

Just like the 400 point swings during the year, you have to stick with it..

Long term, the dividends, and eventually the gains will be worth it.

Always keep enough cash for your everyday stuff and a rainy day fund, and let the rest ride long term...

Happy Investing to you all..Errr, I mean Happy Thanksgiving, errr...I mean both...:lateral: :cheers:

It isn't easy to be a real "INVESTOR".... regardless of how much skin you have in the game. But if you stick with it --- and I mean TRULY stick with it. You will be thankful.

I don't care what you're invested in - it doesn't have to be stocks. It can be real estate... it can be pigs... but you've got to know that at some point you'll have losers and at some point the pigs you bought won't be worth what you paid for them. But stick around long enough and the pigs will make baby pigs and eventually they will get sold and you'll make some money. :lol:

FB is my pig :unibrow:

Kinda off topic But relevant...
 

On Income Tax and Employee granted stock options.. (restricted and Non)
When does the capital gain clock start (1 year short vs 1 year+ 1 day Long)

Does is start on Grant date?
Does it start on Vest Date?

For example.. if I get options granted year one.. vest 25% per year over 4 years... on the first 25% doe that clock start on day one of grant date or dat one of vest date?
So if I sell 2 days after 1st vest is that short or long term Cap gains?

Well --- sadly --- these are ORDINARY INCOME and you'll pay taxes at the current rate on the date you exercise. No long term ANYTHING on Options.

Remember too -- that when you exercise --- let's say 100 grand worth... that will RAISE your rate on all of your other salary. Be prepared to be hit with a whopper tax bill.

Back in the day --- We had massive Microsoft options.... we'd sell (they had 10 year expiration dates - so about 1996 you were forced to sell or let the option expire) what we had to... the next year - we'd sell to pay the taxes. While at the time you're whining about it - it's not a bad problem to have. :unibrow:

I put some cash to work first thing this morning in Annaly (NLY) and Con Ed (ED)... just nibbling and adding to my holdings. Both of these have been stepping down for awhile now - and as they do - the dividend PERCENTAGE rises. I practice what I preach and I scale in and or scale out. As an example -- I held 7,000 shares of ED -- This morning I bought 1,000 more. At 4+ percent return -- it's a decent hold and I think it's been selling off due to the big storm and the expected costs. I view this as a temporary issue. Not that this is a stock that moves all that much to begin with (which is why I own it in the first place!).


I added 10,000 shares of Annaly.... at these prices -- it counteracts the lower dividend % of shares like ED. I would repeat - this is not a stock that should be bought and forgot. It's a pure dividend play and as such - is much more volatile. These kinds of shares are where I park cash.

Thanks for taking action on NLY, hopefully your Midas Touch will drive it down and I can grab another 100. :thumbsup:

what are guys like you going to do if the dividends tax goes from 15% to 39.6%? I believe that's where it's set to go Jan 1 if Congress doesn't change anything.

As a coincidence to what Jody posted, here's a piece from Buffett published in the Times today regarding investment behavior under changing tax rates:
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/26/op....html?hp&_r=1&

:cheers:

In response to Jody.... or anyone asking really....

Personally my goal has always only been one thing. To make as much money for myself as humanly possible. The tax bill is just what it is, a function of making a bunch of money.

When I was a V.P. and partner in a multimillion dollar importing company in New York City.... I paid 50% federal income tax - New York City income tax - New York State income tax - and sales taxes on top of that.... I never once thought -- OH! I shouldn't make any more money because I might have to pay taxes on it. Never.

I figure if I earn a dollar - and I owe the gov .40 of it - I still keep .60

What I do think about is.... I won't do anything right this instant that might have me making the wrong moves. In other words... I passed on an apartment building (1 mill minimum investment) because that type of investment is illiquid... and the new taxes might possible affect the returns on that kind of investment - therefore affecting the value of that investment going forward. This is called "uncertainty" and uncertainty is what NOBODY wants because it causes paralysis in the markets. Just as I'm sure it did for that particular investment. Once you know what the situation is going forward - then everyone makes their adjustments and moves forward.

COLUMN-Four reasons dividends won't fall off 'fiscal cliff'
11:58 AM ET, 11/30/2012 - Reuters
By John Wasik

CHICAGO, Nov 30 (Reuters) - With a tax increase on dividends and capital gains looming, high-dividend paying stocks may hold up well - even if investment income rates climb on Jan. 1.

Unless Congress acts by the end of the year, taxes on dividends will automatically rise from the current 15 percent to as high as 39.6 percent. While that sounds like a draconian increase, it should not discourage investors from owning high-dividend paying stocks nor should it trigger a lasting market decline.

You can blame inertia, but individual investors are likely to stick with their dividend stocks anyway. And those who do may even be rewarded for the fear factor of higher rates. Companies like Wal-Mart have moved up dividend payments to December. Others like Costco, Wynn Resorts and Tyson Foods are declaring special dividends, some of them quite substantial.

If history provides any clue, the market should get over its anxiety quickly and move on. According to a study by Ned Davis Research, dividend stocks performed well during past periods of higher dividend taxes. The firm studied years when rates ranged from 28 percent (1988-1990) to 70 percent (1972-1978).

In every period studied, except for 1987, high-dividend stocks outperformed non-dividend payers. The margin of outperformance was as high as nearly 15 percentage points.

What's the connection between tax rates and dividend-paying stock returns? According to Milller/Howard Investments in a recent report: "There is no correlation between lower dividend taxes and the performance of dividend-paying stocks."

There are some fundamental financial and psychological reasons why dividend payments and tax rates are unlinked. Here are the four most compelling ones:

1. Investors still know how to play the ongoing contest between bonds, insured vehicles and dividend-paying stocks. Savvy investors buy on the spread, or the difference between asset classes. Right now, that gap is big.

The national average rate on a one-year certificate of deposit, according to Bankrate.com, is a miserable 0.29 percent, although you can find a CD yielding 1 percent if you shop around.

You can get a 2 percent yield on the Vanguard Dividend Appreciation ETF right now. The exchange-traded fund holds a basket of stocks that consistently boost their dividends. This spread is unlikely to narrow soon since the Federal Reserve has said it will leave interest rates close to zero into 2014 if the economy continues to be sluggish.

I know I'm comparing apples and oranges - an insured investment with stocks - but long-term, total-return investors are willing to take on the extra risk.

2. The best dividend-paying stocks combine income with potential growth in the payout over time. Conventional bonds and insured deposits pay a fixed rate until maturity. While there may be some compounding, your income stream won't change during the time you hold your bond to maturity.

Dividend payers can increase their payouts every quarter - and many have done so consistently over time. Energy company Chevron, for example, has been paying dividends since 1912; Colgate-Palmolive since 1895, and Stanley Black & Decker since 1877, according to Investorplace.com's list of "dependable dividends."

Investors will continue to embrace consistency paired with dividend growth even if tax rates climb.

3. Dividends still provide a modest cushion in calamity. While dividend-payers still are subject to stock market risk, they are much better to own in a pinch in a low-yield, slow-growth environment.

If you examine the most elite companies that have raised dividends for at least 20 years - the S&P High Yield Dividend Aristocrats - those companies have outpaced the broad S&P 500 index over the past one, three and five years through 2011.

Even when you include the disastrous results from 2008, the Aristocrats turned in a 1.53 percent return for the half decade versus a negative 0.25 percent for the stocks of the S&P 500. Keep in mind that one-third of total stock returns have come from dividends since 1926, so in the absence of appreciation, dividends provide some insulation in bear markets

4. Total return still matters. Yield isn't the only reason dividend payers will prevail in the event of a tax increase. Companies also offer the potential for capital appreciation in growing economies.

The most consistent payouts come from sectors of the economy that straddle defensive and growth categories. Utilities, for example, many of which have been around for a century, have traditionally paid out large portions of their cash to shareholders. Combined with an increasing demand for electricity and energy, they've done well in recent years.

The Utilities Select Sector SPDR, for example, has returned nearly 14 percent over three years through Oct. 30, with a recent yield of about 4 percent.

The Vanguard Consumer Staples ETF, which tracks an index that holds "consumer defensive" companies like Altria and Coca-Cola, is up nearly 15 percent with a 2 percent yield.

The market will get nervier the closer Congress gets to the end of the year - dividend payers will likely provide the modest bulwark they always have for buy-and-hold investors. There are no guarantees, but the lion's share of dividends won't suddenly disappear just because tax rates change.

Let's talk some small potatoes real estate.

We closed on this property about 3 weeks ago and the tenant moved in today. It's located in South Las Vegas in a good neighborhood. I got lucky and found a retired school supertindent from Phoenix with no pets. He races go karts on the road course.

Purchase Price: $109,500
Down Payment: $21,900
Loan Amount: $87,600 (3.75% Fixed/30 Years)
Closing Costs:$6,400
Fix Up: $8,000
-3,285 Commission

Initial Investment: $33,015

Rent: $1075 Per Month (Under value due to quality tenant)
Mortgage Payment (PITI) $547
Gross Monthly Cash Flow: $528

First 5 Year ROI
Gross Cash Flow: $31,680
Principal Reduction:$8,640
Appeciation (3% Yearly): $16,425
Cash Flow Invested 1% Money Market: $3,168
Realized Gross Gain: $59,913

15 Year ROI
Gross Cash Flow: $95,040
Principal Reduction: $31,320
Appreciation (3% Yearly): $49,275
Cash Flow Invested in 1% Money Market: $9,504
Realized Gross Gain: $185,139

I realize these are gross numbers and don't include repair, vacancy, or taxes. They are attractive numbers regardless.

My plan is to have this property paid in full between my 52nd-55th birthday cash flowing $1000-$1300 a month with a value of approximately $160,000. IF, I don't decide it's time to 1031 the money to a different market due to market forces or relocation.

The property turned out really sharp and way beyond average for our rental market. That required a larger initial investment but I feel it will cost me less vacany and less fix up over the years. I know that the best properties attract the best tenants. I also realize that the rental market will take a turn for the worse in the foreseable future. I want the cream of the crop.

Ironically, after I closed the deal with the tenant today, my 2nd property recieved short sale approval this morning. We plan to close by the end of the year. :thumbsup:

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/a...9/DSC_0001.jpg
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/a...DSC_0004-1.jpg
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/a...9/DSC_0006.jpg
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/a...9/DSC_0007.jpg
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/a...9/DSC_0009.jpg

Nice work for small potatoes. :unibrow:

No before and after? What did you do for the $8k rehab?

X2 on the small potatoes. A few more of those will make for a good 55th bday.
Todd
How is the market on trustee sales in Vegas? Is there any wiggle room there or is every one doing it?

And that's why I wouldn't mind getting into the rentals market at some point in my life. You're having someone else pay for your house. Good job, Todd. :thumbsup:

Come to think of it, I accidentally erased the before photos. It was just all original 1998. It was a little tired.

Repairs:
Tiled the entire structure with 17" neutral tile/dark grout (Never mess with it again) $5,100
Painted the entire inside with a modern neutral washable $1000
Installed master shower enclosure to ward off water damage $187
Tore out tree that was compromising wall, fixed leak, and trimmed up landscaping $325
Replaced the kitchen appliances (Stove, Micro, Dishwasher)$1,200
Toilet Seats $30
Replaced some landscape lights $45
Painted exterior trim $300
Professional cleaning $200

I have around 15 hours in it myself.

The plan is 5 minimum within 3 years. Our notice of defaults have been picking up but our trustee sales are still week due to a dry spell, short sales, and loan mods. We have approx. 70,000 vacant properties in the valley and who knows how many are not makign their payments due to a senate bill that makes it difficult to foreclose. We are expecting another waive of bank foreclosures starting next spring as the banks are figuring things out and performing some judicial foreclosures. That will also pick up the short sale inventory as we have under 1,000 active short sales with 60% of our home owners in a negative equity position. Nevada is a non judicial state.

Guys are flipping properties for good profits as our inventory has been low for 6 months. Currently we have 4,700 active units in the ENTIRE valley and we are closing around 3,000 a month. Buyers are paying over market value in many cases due to the lack of quality inventory. This has led to an 18% price increase year to date. I really think the market has been undervalued due to the collapse of the market. Many feel we have a double dip coming and I can't disagree, I just don't think it will be substantial enough to not buy now at 3.75% interest. :unibrow: