Originally Posted by BRIAN (Post 180617)

There is no clear choice to any of the options. The stock subframe has been proven to be a viable option with the correct mods. It can also offer adjustability with the the ATS and SC&C stuff.


The full clips add a one stop shopping complete bolt on with some compromises. You have to remember almost no 2 builds are the same so there has to be a compromise made unless it is built specific for your exact set up. That is where the adjustable set ups come into play. Problem is how many guys have the equipment or knowledge to make adjustments. Ever try to get an alignment shop to make adjustments to a modified car?

Everybody has a different idea of what handles well and what good ride and tire wear are. The person describing the handling and ride might drive a F150 or an BMW M3 so they have a different opinion as to what is good. Look for good customer service and a proven design. I do not want to be the test for someone to develop their parts. DSE has the edge in my opinion on design and testing. Plus their parts have a lot of miles on them.

Jake I have never seen your set up but if you are offering a tailored to fit bolt on you might have a market. I have never seen anybody offer a fully set up roller as an option to their suspension which if you did I think would help with that small shop personal attention sale. Just an idea. The cost of buying several spring sets and set up tools would be about the same cost.

I wish someone would design a coil over that lasts 15k miles without leaking and springs that do not sag. That is why I would favor a modified stock design. Killer delrin style bushings and 5" springs with adjusters with conventional shocks. I hate crawling under a car when they are done to keep fiddling with it. I would rather be driving.

Originally Posted by David Pozzi (Post 180400)

The down side to higher amounts of neg camber gain is when you apply power, the front rises, and the camber goes positive faster. Jake's car does look very well tuned in the video's though.
David

Originally Posted by tones2SS (Post 180787)

Very good write up.
Very informative for those of us that do not have any of these products being talked about.
I may go with the Speed Tech instead to allow more money for other aspects of the build, et: big block power?:thumbsup: :cheers:

Originally Posted by XLexusTech (Post 180809)

If the blue is your goal then just go with a modded OEM. The STtech sub will actually have you spending good money that you shoud put toward the power you are looking for.

JMHO

Originally Posted by awr68 (Post 180848)

I had a highly modded sub with DSE arms, DSE c/o conversion, Unisteer rack, Hotchkis sway bar, fully welded frame, blasted, and painted...and it still didn't give me what I TOTALLY wanted. I wanted to run a 10" wheel and I love the look of fabricated frames. So I sold my old frame/suspension and went with the complete ST clip.

You have to understand that not everyone can weld, blast ,or paint...so to say you are simply waisting money going with the ST frame isn't exactly true! How much would it cost to take your stock frame (assuming you have one) to a shop and have them convert it to a true coilover, weld the seams and any other issues they find, blast it, and paint it? And you still aren't at the same point as if you just would have ordered a ST frame.

And I think you are forgetting that all the guys that already own tubular arms and possibly a Unisteer rack that want to loose a little weight off the frame and be able to run a wider wheel/tire this is a great option for them.

I'm hoping that you don't really have a beef with ST and think you are just informing others that this isn't the 'best' setup from an all out performance standpoint...but honestly some of us completely honest with ourselves and know that we will never drive our cars 10/10's and for the money this ST frame/suspension will work just fine!

So please back off, you have spoken, people have read what you have to say and they will make their own decision from here. If they are still considering ST then let it go....we don't need to continually hear that you think they are junk/waste of money...that's simply not true!

Originally Posted by XLexusTech (Post 180809)

If the blue is your goal then just go with a modded OEM. The STtech sub will actually have you spending good money that you shoud put toward the power you are looking for.

JMHO

Originally Posted by DJW32 (Post 181039)

How much does a stock subframe weigh?