Lateral-g Forums - Optima Batteries wants your input

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- - Optima Batteries wants your input (https://www.lateral-g.net/forums/showthread.php?t=23386)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charming (Post 245166)

Laugh it up. It's no coincidence that this thread is no longer stickied either. Word travels quick in the automotive community, and when people hear that a little car forum is not only supporting a company that lied to it's American employees before sending there jobs to Mexico, but banning members who speak up about it.... Well it tends to ruffle feathers. You probably did more to spread the word about Optima's antics by trying to silence your members than you realize. Thank you.

**Edit** This post will be followed by an email to Optima stating how they lost my business as a customer, and also how I found out about there Mexican sellout move. I would encourage the rest of you guys that are ticked off to contact Optima also and voice your displeasure. Who knows, maybe they will offer us tickets to SEMA? Cheers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charming (Post 245175)

A copy of my email to Optima.

"Hello.
I felt the need to drop you a line and inform you of some bad publicity/conduct going on that has steered myself and assuredly numerous other past,present, and future clients away from your products. It was brought to my attention the concerns that people were having making peace with the idea that a portion of your manufacturing labor force was outsourced internationally. This in and of itself would likely be enough for myself to end a business relationship with a company to be honest. The mitigating factors that really seemed to push this over the "edge" in my eyes was the way that a sponsored website of yours was going about handling the situation.
The website (Lateral-G.net) was evidently "censoring" any posts on there public forum that brought into question the ethics of this decision. As members of the public, and auto enthusiasts we feel as though we do have the right to discuss these issues. It would seem as though the conduct of the aforementioned website served to propel the negative connotations exponentially, now that they were coupled with questionable conduct on the part of your sponsored website and its administrators.
I would suggest you reevaluate the criteria by which you gauge your working partners. These issues can spread like wildfire, and in the end do nothing for a company's image. It likely wouldn't matter so much on your end if your product was of a proprietorially exclusive nature, but in this instance that just isn't the case. "

the original post that was removed by John Cunningham (Johnny Rockett) was for vendor bashing, which this site and every other one I'm on does not allow. Apparently yellow bullet allows it and that's fine for them. He went back and re-posted it so he got a temporary ban and the post was removed again, along with an explanation. I'm pretty sure any message board would do the same. His personal e--mails to me escalated to the point that I changed it to a permanent ban.

It's a legal issue, and at some point the sites that allow members to bash vendors will find out why all the very large car sites I'm a member of (not including Lateral-G in this list) do not allow it on their site. We're leaving the comments up as that's what Optima requested, so good or bad is fine as long as it doesn't turn in to a bash session.

By the way, the thread was un-stickied because it's SEMA week, and if David hasn't left already he will be soon so we don't need to leave it up top................. ;)

Jody

Well said Jody.

This is a fantastic automotive website - and sharing information and encouraging one another is what it should be about. Slogging through posts
from disgruntled employees on a bash fest serves no purpose whatsoever. They can start their own blog or website.

While I agree - that if the batteries will now be made in Mexico - they will no longer be installed in anything I drive (I own 9 cars)... I'm not going to bash them. Nor do we need pages of "hate mail".

:thumbsup:

Just an FYI, you should also send that e-mail to Johnson Controls as well as they own Optima (JCI bought Optima from a company in Sweden in '00 and moved it here). Ultimately, it was JCI that moved Optima manufacturing to Mexico.

On a related note, Johnson Controls manufactures Duralast, Diehard, Kirkland (Costco), Motorcraft, EverStart, Interstate, Optima, DieHard, TrueStart, Autocraft, Mazda, Blains Farm & Fleet, and probably some others...

I don't think anyones intention is to clutter up your website with bashing. My issue is this.

Companies have the right to outsource their workforce wherever they choose. They don't need to do it in the underhanded, deceitful way which Optima allegedly did, but they can. These companies go into a situation like this fully aware that there is an accountability to there customers that they will have to acknowledge. Hopefully it is something which is carefully weighed prior to making the decision.

My issue is that a number of people commented on this particular website regarding these issues, and the moderator, administrator, owner, or whomever took it upon themselves to remove these posts, and ban the usernames and IP's from which they were posted. Don't tell me it didn't happen, or that they were "bashing" because I am one of those people and would gladly repost the mysterious disappearing comments.

You have the right to solicit sponsorship money from whatever company you choose, and judging by the lengthy list on the left, you do a fine job at it. You do owe it to your members to at least be aware of the nature of companies sending you money so they can decide for themselves if they also support these companies and there actions.

I'm sure you had great intentions to your sponsors when you deleted/banned this information. Unfortunately the act of attempted censorship will usually, and in this case did, only escalate the situation.

The original poster (David) asked on behalf of the manufacturer for feedback, technical feedback, on the performance of the product.

Myself and many others have provided technical usage experiences, many of which are very critical of the product. Did you read any of those?

They did not ask for feedback regarding whether or not any of us feel good or bad about Johnson Controls / Optima as a company, nor for an ethics / civics lesson from you, about how we as hobbyists should feel about companies that outsource manufacturing, or whether employees were wronged.

It's not relevant to the discussion.

Coming on here and spewing that stuff, IS vendor bashing, pure and simple.

If you don't like the company, you have a moral objection with how they do business, treat their employees, etc, then fine, then simply make your personal choice and go buy something else. Take your crusade elsewhere.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charming (Post 245253)

One guy was banned (johnny rockett) because he re-posted the same thing after we edited it. And that was not permanent until he lost control.........

You have not been banned under any of your four or more names (evilsports, evilersports, evilestsports) plus your current name. Show me where you cannot sign in under those names..............

Nobody else was banned in this thread, just the one for not listening. I mentioned that he could re-word it in a way that it could stay up, but he wanted to make it personal. I'm pretty sure yellowbullet.com would not allow a member to do the same. I am sorry it escalated but you've got to put some blame on the guy who cannot keep things civil.

None of us like companies leaving the US, but there are different ways of getting your point across; one way would remain on the board, and then there's Johns way. We do only allow sponsors that take care of our members, and have removed some in the past that did not. It's not about the money. Optima supports our hobby more than most manufacturers.

Jody

Quote:

Originally Posted by rwhite692 (Post 245256)

Stances like these are what make it an easy decision for a company to pick up roots, lay off a work force, and move to Mexico. People are more concerned nowadays with keeping the personal status quo then they are with standing up next to there countrymen.

Quote:

Originally Posted by camcojb (Post 245258)

I was banned. Then I was "apparently" unbanned, however my posts were only visible to me when I was signed in. To everyone else they were not. Now I appear to be unbanned. Regardless, I have a hard time putting the blame on the fellow that was standing up for something that I also believe in. Maybe more people standing up for what they believe in isn't a bad thing in the grand scheme.

I agree though, topics like this have a tendency to heat up in a hurry.

Quote:

Originally Posted by XcYZ (Post 245229)

On a related note, Johnson Controls manufactures Duralast, Diehard, Kirkland (Costco), Motorcraft, EverStart, Interstate, Optima, DieHard, TrueStart, Autocraft, Mazda, Blains Farm & Fleet, and probably some others...

Yep, you'll be hard pressed to find an automotive battery manufactured in the USA anymore. My friend's recently purchased Interstate battery had a 'made in Mexico' sticker on it. There have been an enormous number of companies that have outsourced labor to 'survive'(mine included) and it's exceptionally disturbing(I may be next), but if I was a new buyer reading this thread, I wouldn't have needed the labor practices argument to convince me to not buy an Optima. I think people's experiences with the product itself that were described in the thread would be enough to deter me from an Optima.

I've owned a red top for about 3 years now. It hasn't ever left me for dead away from home, but I do need to keep it on a trickle charger and it won't hold as much charge as it did when it was new(about .5 volts less). I most likely would not purchase another unless they improve the durability and quality of the product. If it does improve, well, then I'll surely consider them.

Here's what's ironic, I totally agree with your sentiment that it sucks royally that yet more manufacturing jobs have left this country. I hate it, I hate where this country is going, and I hate who's at the helm. I, like you I'm sure, have zero confidence in our government. Where I disagree is how you went about this. By calling people names, telling their car sucks, belittling in general, is counterproductive. The posts that were removed was because of personal attacks. No IP's were banned, we simply put the offending username on mute becuase the person using that account couldn't be rational. No posts that complained about Optima's performance as a product were ever removed. They're still in this thread.

I've never solicited a company to advertise here. They call came here on their own accord, just like you did.

Personally, I believe the problem with Optima moving manufacturing out of this country is a symptom of a government that hates business. I'm not defending Optima, I'm merely trying to understand it. For instance:

Quote:

For the 10th-consecutive year, the global average corporate tax rate fell, and it is now down to 25.5 percent (just 23.2 percent in the European Union!).

In the United States, unfortunately, the corporate tax rates remains stuck at about 40 percent. Only one developed nation, Japan, has a more punitive regime.

Something to keep in mind the next time a politician complains that jobs are going to China (corporate tax rate of 25 percent) or Mexico.

http://www.kpmg.com/SiteCollectionDo...urvey_2009.pdf

On top of out of control tax rates on businesses, I also have to wonder if Colorado's EPA was forcing the manufactuing of batteries out? I know that California would never let chemicals like that in their state.

I don't know what the solution is, but I'm voting in the '10 elections. There's going to be an incumbant blood bath.