For 40K(or now 51K) I'd sure as hell want some sort of signed agreement. That's a large chunk of change to a lot of us, and sometimes it's not just about the money, it's about the schedule. I don't blame you one bit Mario, especially after what you've been through already. Seems like there are an increasing number of businesses out there nowadays that will make inaccurate claims about their ability to do the job at certain price/time in order to get your project and money in their doors and then they just do whatever they want after they get you on board. I think a reasonable agreement with some penalties/bonuses would force some better initial accuracy and accountability, especially in a situation with that sum of money. Building these cars is difficult enough without having to deal with those VERY frustrating situations where someone takes your money and then just does whatever the hell they want and when they want. Some of us aren't rich enough or have the flexibility to easily deal with that.

Fortunately for me, my shortblock builder Jason Pettis delivered nearly on time and at the exact price quoted, and he was extremely detailed about the work and parts that would be involved. He allowed me to supply my own parts, although I told him that if any of the parts were not to his satisfaction, he could swap them out and I'd just return mine, which we did on a few. Not at all to the scale of your build, but still a pleasant experience for me and I'd definitely recommend him.

Good luck with your sick engine build and please keep us updated. :thumbsup:

In other aspects of life...for example, building an addition on to your house for $40k....would you hire someone without a pretty clear set of expectations, and details that was put in writing?...

Most people would say...hell no...so why is that different in the car world?

There is a big difference in having a plan in writing, with expectations, time frame, payment schedule etc vs a legal binding contract.

I think having it all written out makes both parties clear on what the plan is....it serves as a reference if there are any "issues" that come up when one party refutes what the agreed plan was....vs it all being remembered from some phone conversation and people not remembering the same thing...

if I was dropping $40-50k on a motor, I would want a written plan...not a 20 page legal contract....

NASA has been known to be slow about things sometimes!

Seriously though, what the heck kind of engine cost $40k?! Am I just to used to building my own engines for $12k??

A key word here that I have not seen used is "customary'. It is important.

Ned brought up a GC doing a remodel for $40k. Yes you are going to get a contract with that (some better and tighter than others of course).

But what individual motor customer ever gets a contract? I contend that it is CUSTOMARY that you do not get contracts when purchasing motors, but you do when purchasing remodels. It isn't about the money here, it is about what is customary.

And if a $40k motor earns you the right to one, why doesn't a $12k or 15k motor get one? Money should not be the deciding factor on who gets and who doesn't get a contract.

We, the Pro-touring'ites, must lead this hobby out of the dark ages, legally speaking. I sense this is our burden...

I've got a name that fits.

'LegalZoom.'

Could be gold!

Things become "customary" because things evolve due to necessity..... Even big deals and big business used to be sealed with a handshake and your "word".... That used to be customary for everything

The bigger the $$ involved, the more both parties need to protect themselves from any "issues"

No doubt you will get pushback and defensive attitudes.... It's not the "norm"...

It's a double sided issue...... If you are truly a trustworthy company/business that stands by your word, then why not put it in writing.....but it's insulting to be asked... The customer doesn't trust you.... But if you got nothing to hide, then why not?.... If you can't trust my word, then screw you, take your business somewhere else....

But there are enough precedents out there by companies screwing over customers...... Any every one of them was trusted by the customer... With a handshake and their "word"

I personally wouldn't hand over $40k to anyone without some written plan.... Maybe not a full, legal contract, but not just a verbal conversation.... If nothing else, a written plan about paying in installments as progress is made

Customary, Good point. Would said builder hire remodelers to renovate his shop without a contract or signed proposal or some sort of "binding document"? Especially if they didn't know them from Adam?? Even if they had a good reputation on doing a "good job"?? Quite possibly not.

And sorry Greg, but I'd say that to "most" of us on here (and in the real world), 40k is a large sum of cash for a portion of a toy. No disrespect meant, but seriously!!

Jimmy I don't think Greg meant it that way.

We had a former vendor on the board that has taken people for a lot of money . Some of what I've been reading is pretty scary . Guys have been taken for thousands of dollars and will never see that money again! For me I would of never believed it I never had a bad deal with this vendor ever. I have to tell you guys my car has been in the planning stages for over ten years. It sat in my storage lot for 6 years. I put money away every chance I had in my ''car fund'' so I could build this car the way I wanted. Trust me I'm not Charley or GW. I saved for over ten years to make this happen. I have been very lucky with most of my vendors up until this point. I could have been taken by this vendor just as easy as the rest of these guys he had almost $20,000,00 of my money at one time! We put our trust in these vendors and hand them over big money. But I have to say, seeing what's going on today with the world and the economy I'm trusting no one!!!! I could of been one of the guys taken buy this vendor very easily. I'm protecting myself from here on out. Let me tell you, any of these vendors can get into financial trouble at anytime and I'm not giving them my hard earned dollars so they can take it and bail them selves out! :soapbox:

Okay one last thing and I'm done. One thing I learned early on is you will always have ups and downs in your business . The comment that gets my blood boiling is '' (INSERT HERE) we don't need your business" Well I learned you can't stay on the top forever and you WILL come down! So remember the ''difficult'' guy you told to take a hike you'll wish you had him! Ask me how I know this!!!:topic: