Way to go Chad! You'll be burning up the track in no time :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Chad, it's always a great feeling to see your hard work pay off...congratulations, car looks amazing. Inspirational badging!:hail:

That's awesome Chad. Sounds deliberate. You're getting close now. :thumbsup:

I see some lower lap times in your near future.

When are we going for a drive?:cheers:

Thanks for the plug, I have a few pictures of the tank being modified. Do you want me to post some.

Brett

Thanks again everyone!! Still feeling good today. Can't wait to take this thing for a real drive. Soon. Just confirmed my appointment and the car is off the exhaust shop tomorrow morning.

Sure post em up. After all aren't we all picture whores to some extent around here lol?

BTW I sent you an email about the catch can setup I'm eyeballing. So check your email when you get a chance.

Chad that thing sounds nasty. Congrats bud, it's like witnessing the birth of your child lol

Well Ron, I didn't leave it uncorked very long but I figure starting the car up this morning around 7:30am to load it on the trailer helped establish something (either who is boss or who is kind of a dick...).

Either way I thought I'd take some video to capture that lovely uncorcked sound before I add mufflers and tame the beast.



Car is now waiting for Magnaflow exhaust

http://img39.imageshack.us/img39/8262/img1700c.jpg

Sounds Mean :thumbsup:

Man I must be a loser. I had a better time watching that than i did watching the Olympics tonite. Effin car guys...

That thing is SICK!!! grats...

You're kind of a d!ck! :rofl: Love it.

You know I'd vote for leaving the exhaust as is. :captain:

What?

I remember when you used to have to downshift to accelerate when pulling a grade. :unibrow:

Somehow I doubt you'll be having any issues with that now.

Matt

How about some updates Chad---silence usually means more money has been required--and we want to know about it.

Lunch this week?

D

Doug,

How about lunch next week? No updates because the car was at Magnaflow for about a week and then I've been out of town since last Saturday. Car is ready for me to pick it up and its been killing me that I can't go get it NOW as I'm stuck in NorCal.

I've got a few things to tweak and then its off to TCI for some suspension tweaking and tuning next week :)

I'm sure any of us SoCal people will be glad to go drive it home for you:willy: HELL we'll even fill her up with fuel !

You in Sac, or the bay ?

That is what I love about this site. Everyone is so generous!!

I'm in Sac. Driving the long drive home with the boat tomorrow.

Picked the car up on Monday and got back out in the garage last night.

Exhaust sounds great but I've encountered new gremlins (at least I hope they are gremlins and not major problems).

The main thing that prevented the car from being driven in the past was front tire clearance and interference of one of the two pinion down bars on the rear end. After thrashing on other parts of the car I decided that the one pinion down bar was strong enough for a mild drive and threw my old front tires on and took the car for a real drive (as opposed to loading it on/off trailers).

It was not a confidence boosting drive. After warming up the oil I was getting 20 PSI at idle and 40 at high RPM. I also have significant engine vibration above 1500 RPM.

I am hoping I did the noob LS move so many others did and screwed up the oil pick up tube o-ring install when I swapped to the Autokraft pan and that is my oil pressure problem. If not then I don't know what to do next?

I am stumped by the vibration. It's 100% related to engine speed. Will vibrate in neutral sitting still in the driveway when you rev up the motor. vibrates driving at speed until you push in the clutch and/or shift into neutral at which point the vibrations are gone.

Since it was a new crate motor (did sit for 3 years before being run), new RAM flywheel and GM LS7 clutch I'm not sure how to diagnose it. I'm guessing it has something to do with the flywheel/clutch. Would bell housing run-out effect this? Pomona Valley Customs assured me they checked it and it was fine but after seeing their other work I have my doubts. Can you screw up an LS7 clutch install and cause vibration but otherwise have a good working clutch? What would you guys check?


I was supposed to participate in the Super Chevy Handling challenge but after last nights voyage there is no way I can make it.

Thanks

Sorry to hear about still more glitches.

Unless PVC has a fixture with a round hole concentric with the crankshaft (like the McLeod adapter plate), I don't know how anyone checks the run-out on a T56 bellhousing.

That said, I'd look to the flywheel/pressure plate. I don't think disengaging the clutch would eliminate vibration caused by excesive bellhousing run-out.

Thanks Mike.

I actually never tried revving the motor with the clutch. I was attempting to describe that the vibration is engine speed dependent only. I will try revving with the clutch in to see if that impacts it at all.

My understanding is you should check all bell housings and that you buy replacement alignment dowels to get proper run out.

I'd look at the engine vitals first in regards to the vibration. All 8 firing, fuel pressure, engine tune, etc...

My stock LS2 makes 28-30 psi at idle hot. What weight oil are you running? Mast may loosen up their clearances and that could require heavier oil to get a pressure that makes you feel fuzzy. 50-60 psi at redline should suffice, hot.

re: oil pressure Mast did confirm my readings sounded a bit low. I would generally agree 50-60 at redline is good. I'm not running the motor at redline yet but 4K it was right at 40 which is far lower than any of the LS equipped vehicles I've driven and I'm used to motors reaching peak oil pressure or at least high oil pressure far before redline. It currently has the Mast recommended 10-30 Valvoline racing oil in it with EOS additive. I'm probably going to drop the pan and check the o-ring no matter what.

I haven't touched the tune since it's tuned at Mast and they do dyno the motors before shipping. I used to check for all cylinders firing by pulling a plug wire one at a time with the engine running. What is the non cave man way to do it lol?

Currently don't have a way to check fuel pressure but will look into that. I have a hard time seeing fuel pressure doing vibration while the motor otherwise pulls fine and drives fine.

I will add the motor pulls plenty hard with the limited drive I did. Even part throttle mild driving up to 3K RPM's shows this motor is far more powerful than my old zz4 350.

I get more vibration through the steering wheel (no more rag joint, uses u joints) than I get riding through the handle bars riding my 88TCB Harley. My side view mirrors shake like a Harley too...

What was the oil pressure at when they dyno'd it....has it changed since then??

Are you running an electric oil pressure gauge?

I'd start with a simple thing like the gauge and or sending unit if it's an elec gauge. I've had faulty sending units that read low press JMOHO

True, but the T56 specific bellhousings don't have a round surface that's concentric with the crank. The bellhousing follows the shape of the transmission. That's why you need some sort of fixture to check runout.

I was trying to say that I doubt that the bell housing could be so misaligned that you get a bad vibration, yet have the vibration compeletely disappear when you depress the clutch with the car moving. The input shaft is still inserted into the pilot bushing and is still hypothetically being whipped around if the bellhousing is misaligned. Again, I'd look at the engine and the flywheel/pressure plate. Was the pressure plate new and zero balanced?

Fuel pressure is crucial with fuel injection. I wouldn't drive it again until you are able to monitor it. An engine in bad tune will vibrate like crazy.

Chad, great seeing you today for lunch. Let us know what you find out on the oil pressure and the vibration. I am hoping for the o-ring quick fix and hopefully something easy with respect to the vibration. Glad it's running and driving at least.

So did you drop the pan tonight?

D

I don't know the oil pressure at dyno. I am running an electric sending unit. I'm taking the oil pressure readings off my laptop from the ECU. My gauge is also, driven by the Mast ECU.

Ok I understand what you mean now. The flywheel is the Ram aluminum and the GM LS7 clutch. The parts here: http://sdparts.com/details/scoggin-d...enter/sdls7ack If I pull the trans what would you recommend I look for with the clutch/flywheel? I don't know about zero balanced but yes the parts were new.

I'll see if I can get a gauge to check it. I'm running the vaporworx setup but there could be something wrong with the pump I guess.

Hey Doug, it was good catching up with you today as well. The o ring is not going to be a "quick" fix sadly. I got under the car tonight and I need to pull the rack and either lifting the motor and/or removing the transmission. So its going to be a lot more work to get at the pickup. I probably need to pull the trans to check the clutch anyways so I may go that route assuming it's not some weird fuel pressure thing that Todd is suggesting.

Thanks everyone for the help. The advice is much appreciated.

It is something no one ever really thinks of, but when it comes to building a car, putting a fuel pressure gauge in the engine compartment often comes in handy. Also make sure all of your sensors are working properly, i.e. there's no oil on a MAP sensor, everything is plugged in tight, etc.

As for oil pressure, does Mast have a particular set of numbers that they like to see?

Hope you get all these issues sorted Chad!

Matt

If you haven't learned this handy little fact yet, here it is. NEVER assume anything. :D

Thanks Matt. Me too. Mast indicated that warm oil pressure at idle would normally be in the 35-45 PSI range. They didn't give me a high RPM or WOT range.

Ha, I get what you mean and can logically agree with you but you know that is honestly easier said than done sometimes. Probably going to order a fuel pressure gauge for the fuel rail tonight. I had one on my old motor. I can't believe the difference in cost between a mechanical fuel pressure gauge and electric one that you can have in the car though, wow.

Well I eliminated the fuel pressure as a cause unless 1.5 more PSI is a problem, though I can't see it causing vibration.

Rented a tester kit from the local parts store tonight. Mast requires 58.5 PSI at the fuel rail and I have dead on at 60 PSI according to the tester. Since I can induce vibration just by increasing RPM's in neutral there wasn't a need to test it under load. When blipping the throttle I see a split second 1 PSI dip.

On to tripple check the engine mounts and trans mount and then it's time to pull the tranny and check the clutch.

I was thinking I can take the clutch off and run the motor with just the flywheel to see if I still get horrible vibration at 2K RPM's. If it's still there then I may need to borrow a flywheel or get the balance checked at a shop.

Will keep you guys posted.

At least now you know the pressure is out of the equation. Pull a few plugs and see how the mixture looks as well.

I actually decided to run a compression test as well. I'd say the car is running a tad rich based on the exhaust fumes. Plugs generally looked good with 2 or 3 plugs looking noticeably rich. Not carbon build up rich but more black in color.

Are you running a pilot bushing or bearing in the end of the crankshaft? I had a similar vibration on a car once after installing a new clutch. I chased the vibration down by a damaged pilot bushing due to install. I replaced it with a bearing

I went down this road also Chad when I first put my GM crate motor ZZ454 in years ago. Same exact vibration problem, except I had an automatic. Did nearly all the same things you're doing. Compression check, fuel pressure check, spark plug and wires check(and distributor), harmonic balancer check, mounts check. I eliminated some vibration when I found a bad spark plug wire arc'ing over to my block causing a misfire. But still had some vibration so I then detached the torque converter from the flywheel and shimmed the transmission back to allow the engine to run while detached from converter. I noticed very little vibration then. So, to make a long story shorter, most of the issue was with my flywheel and how the converter was bolting to it, and a new flywheel solved that. I still had a slight harmonic vibration between 1500 and 3000pm after all that, but it was basically just a result of a big cube motor and I came to that conclusion when I sat in somebody else's ride who had the same ZZ454 and it felt exactly the same at the steering wheel.

It drove me nuts for quite a while so I hope you get it sorted out soon and it's something simple. :thumbsup:

I don't know. I had a shop assemble the sub and they installed the pilot bushing/bearing. I'll know soon enough I think.

Thanks Chris.

I think I eliminated tune or engine running incorrectly as a cause of the vibration. I took the car for another diagnostic drive tonight and the vibration is there upon deceleration as well. I even turned the car off in gear decelerating down from about 3.5K rpms and its the exact same vibration. So I'm convinced it's mechanical, rather that anything else.

I have to go out of town this weekend but I plan to pull the motor next week.

Regarding the oil pressure I ordered an adapter for my other sending unit and can play with that next week too. However, when I did my test drive tonight I noticed that at cold oil temps I have a ton of oil pressure (50 idle cold and doesn't drop below 35-40 until a good 10 mins into driving (not idling). If I rev the motor with cold oil it will hit mid/high 70's PSI.

Cold oil pressure doesn't mean much. I've had small blocks with wore out bearings down to the copper have great cold oil pressure and no hot oil pressure. Pull that pan and check the oring while you have things apart.

Agreed. The point I was trying to make was the high cold oil pressure makes me think the sending unit isn't the problem and the reading is accurate. Meaning yeah I gotta pull the pan

Pro Touring Post
 

Hey Chad super nice build,:thumbsup: Not shure you would have the same set up as this guy does (project Schism on Pro Touring .com) but I read on his post page 2 about measuring the radius of the belhousing to make shure the shaft is centered on the crank, or it may cause a vibration a eventuly bearing failure?? just a thought sense you are having a vibration of sorts, he is running an LS3 with a Whipple charger I think, Hope you get it figured out. :thumbsup:

Well I've been working on the car a little bit each night this week. After failing to get up the motivation to even touch it Monday I made a deal with myself to at least do an hour a night.

So after a few nights I got the tranny pulled and flywheel & clutch out.

Let me just say that trying to pull the tranny without draining it was a bonehead move. I made a huge freakin mess and still have to add fluid. Oh well now I know.

Also, learned that a torque arm and tight exhaust makes driveshaft removal a huge PIA. Luckily I was able to slide it bad far enough to get out of the way without totally removing it. I had a few requests to Magnaflow when I dropped the car off and luckily they did a good job of routing it so I could pull the tranny without totally removing the exhaust.

As far as diagnosing the vibration I did start it up with the clutch removed and just the flywheel installed. Vibration was still there. Today I dropped the flywheel and pressure plate off to get checked and rebalanced if necessary. They won't have it done until next Tuesday at the earliest so I have until then to wonder about the motor lol.

Also found another present from Pomona Valley Customs in the form of a stripped bolt into my block at the top of the bell housing. They installed a totally different thread than the rest of the bolts. What a bunch of friggen yahoos.