Congrats! What amazing execution, on a flawless design.

Thanks - we're still working on "our end of the deal" - learning the tracks and training for them, but I think we have a good car heading in to the event, maybe the best we've had. That said, the level of competition this year will be second to none, especially in Vintage American. As always, the goal is to finish and have fun - if we can do that then I'll be happy. Icing on the cake would be to do better than we did last year overall regardless of where we end up in the class.

Thanks Ron. I think I say it at least once a year - everyone has problems, hiccups, or disappointments along the way. Some people don't like to share them but that's part of the game and if we don't talk about the difficulties - or more accurately the solutions - then nobody learns anything. That said, we've had a lot more good than bad at this point and we're fortunate that we are where we are in the program.

Thanks - We'll take a compliment any day of the week. Credit has to go to a lot of people though - from Tyler and McBride who originally conceptualized the hood to Dick and the guys at Best of Show who did their best to make my concepts a reality and to Brian who knew what we needed to do to get the car wrapped and finished. Without those guys (and their teams) none of this would have happened. And then there is David and Mary and Bret and the guys at RideTech. Lots of moving pieces and as always a team effort - you will rarely see me use the word "I" when talking about the OLC and there is a reason.

That being said - there is still room for improvement. There are a couple of elements that would have liked to incorporate and there are some things that I will do differently "next time". It's given me some thoughts to consider for the '69 and, at some point, I will probably build a more competition oriented '67 (or '68) based on the basic design of this front end. Small steps in getting better but we're trying.

James.

Thanks for taking the time to share all this info. Great education for us here.

Maybe I missed something, but I thought the '69 was going to be 'the car' replacing this '67.

But you mentioned possibly also doing another '67-'68. Would it be used for a different purpose than the '69?

The '69 will, eventually, give me the ability to do a quite a few things that we just can't do right now. Will I ever consider it to be a replacement for the OLC? Right now I'd have to say no. It's complicated.

The '69 aside... I've invested a fair bit pf time and effort (etc.) in the front sheet metal that's on the car now and to be realistic, the only way that I am going to ever recoup that will be as part of a car - not as a a front clip. It would be pretty easy to build a car around the front end that would be really cool.

The other option that Mary and I talked about last month would be to sell the OLC and focus on moving on. I don't see that as being a realistic option but its a definite possibility.

For now though we have to get through the One Lap and do our best to maintain our momentum. We've also been invited to take part in a couple of other really cool events this year that I have to work on the logistics for.

Jame's congrat's on all your improvement's.And Good Luck too you and the other in the OLC.Be Safe,have Fun!!!!

James the car looks great and it sounds like the adjustments to the shocks should be an advantage so give um hell! Good luck and be safe.

Camaro looks awesome, almost like a whole new car with the new mods. Good luck James!

Congrats to James and Mary on the class win at OLOA!

James, how did the hood work out as far as cooling?

The hood was great - temps never got over 195 in competition and cruising down the highway we sat at between 174 and 185. No major issues in the rain either. On average I would say a 10 degree overall reduction in temps.

James,

Congrats again on your teams win. :thumbsup:

Not sure if this has been covered already, but now that OLoA is over, what difference do you feel the new front end and the new wing out back made?

Any other changes that you feel merit mentioning?

Thanks - it was a challenging year with Jimi and Carl really upping the level of competition in Vintage. We were fortunate to take the win this year as all of us won, and lost, some competitions by rediculasly small margins.

I'll go in to more detail later but long story short - the front end did what I hoped it would but came with a bit of a weight penalty (compared to what I was hoping). Cooling was phenomenal and suggests we can block more of the grill but overall the front is/was too high and we'll benefit from dropping it down a bit. Jury is still out on the wing - we never had a chance to truly dial it in and tune it before heading out so I think there is room for improvement. All that being said the car the best it's ever been, we easy to drive and performed (mechanically) flawlessly (for the most part) over the week.

The engine is (was) tired when we finished and the transmission wasn't 100% but we're addressing both of those now...

Love this car. Very forward thinking when it comes to muscle cars and aero. Ive said it before, but the wing is great (dibs youre ever going to remove and sell).

Well done!

And all that with a stock (production) sub frame!!!

That's blowing me away and proving that you can do some serious driving with what you get with the purchase of a typical project car!!! Some people don't even drive their car 25% of what you do with yours and Ohhhhh sooo ''NEED'' a DSE or other Big ticket Sub frame to go to the supermarket...lol!!! You sure show its definitively not needed and I love it!!

Love the new look too!! :thumbsup:

Lead.

Thanks Lead but I have to respectfully disagree with you to a point. When I built the OLC sub options were limited and my ATS modified (now SpeedTech) sun frame was abut the best option available. It certainly gets the job done - to a point - and has served us well in a variety of different applications. But it's not ideal and if I were to build the car today, and if mu budget allowed it, I would probably go a different route.

In many ways what we have now is about the equivalent of RideTech's True Turn setup although using different bits and pieces - many of which were home made. It works but we are at, or near, it's limits. That said, one had to look no further than Carl Casanova to see that for the majority of people a stock subframe is more than up the the task.

Today there are a ton of great choices for subframes which are available at not much more cost than a fully built (i.e. functioning) stock sub. A couple may actually be cheaper. It gets difficult in so much as subframe choices/options may be dictated by you engine combination... My use of the an LS7 actually limits the number of subs I can use significantly as there are only so many oil pans available.

Aftermarket subs are (can be) slightly lighter and typically have greater torsional rigidity than the stock one and allow for larger tires, better clearance, and easier utilization than the stock ones - provided the budget allows it and the end use, to a certain point, justifies one. I would not hesitate to use a SpeedTech sub (and in fact I have one in the '69) or an AME piece. Likewise Scott Mock makes a great looking subframe and DSE's has obviously proven itself.

The '67 I am building for wife will certainly have a stock subframe in it - either a RideTech based piece or a SpeedTech based piece.

Hey James,

I hear ya, and have to respectfully......agree with you lol!!! You said it very well, for your application and what you do, i am in total :thumbsup: with what you wrote.

The point i was trying to make (and i think you got it) is that a lot of people are trying to build their cars and put a lot of focus on the (false) absolute necessity of having to get an aftermarket sub frame to have a good car, that it almost makes it a discouraging venture...yet, they dont really need one to enjoy their project!! (Especially when you consider the percentage of whom of these people are going to race their car to a level where it would warrant going with an aftermarket one) What i was trying to highlight was that you can do A LOT to a stock sub and have a very fun and performing car all while still not sinking 10g's just on one part of the car.

Carl's car is effectively a very nice example (doesnt he run 275 up front on top of things too??)

i like the Speedtech too. Good bang for the buck, the best looking to me is the AME unit, the DSE while proven, is too much like the stock one for me look wise, the performance is there, but i like the Rugged and fabbed look of the AME, it looks all business.

Ah....it always comes down to the same story anyway.....:G-Dub: :G-Dub: :G-Dub:

:topic:

Lead.

Yup, and 285's are on the menu.

And so it continues…

After a pretty good One Lap of America this year Mary and I were faced with the reality that the OLC was getting a bit old in places and was starting to show some wear and tear from five years of gentle use. The engine and transmission were starting to show their age and if we were going to run the OLOA for a fifth time with the car - and if we hoped to once again improve our overall finish - some changes were once again in order. As we discussed our strategy for next year we accepted the fact that the engine needed to be rebuilt or replaced, we knew that the transmission needed a freshening, and we felt that the car itself needed some tweaks to get in to fighting shape for what will most likely be its last One Lap competition. So – after some furious phone calls and emails we formulated a plan and, at this point, we’re well on our way to working our way through it.

Here it is…

The Katech “Street Attack” LS7 has been sold and a new Katech LS7 will be taking its place. The new bullet makes a little bit more power and a little bit more torque and will be getting an updated intake, oiling system, and maybe a trick here or there.

The MEFI4B ECM is gone and will be replaced by a much more powerful and flexible Holley Dominator EFI. The Holley system has loads of options that the MEFI just couldn’t match and will a welcome addition to the OLC’s critical systems. Davis Technologies will be providing Traction Control technology that should help us in just about every event that we encounter in the OLOA.

The Tremec T-56 Magnum is off for a rebuild. We found some issues with the slave cylinder which lead us to examine the somewhat wobbly input shaft. This transmission is also a very early Magnum and will be updated to the CF synchros as part of the rebuild.

Centerforce will be rebuilding the DYAD Dual Disk Clutch as part of some routine freshening. This has been an awesome piece for us – outlasting and outgripping anything that we have tried before – and has proven to be perfect for our power levels and use.

The car is going on a diet… the OLC is – and always has been – a heavy car and if we’re going to get faster we need to shed some weight. Our goal is 250 pounds… which is a lot to hope for but I think that we can get close. Some will be easy, some will be painful, and some will be a challenge but at the end of the day I think that it will be worth it.

And the kicker…

The stock subframe is coming out and an Art Morrison Enterprises custom tweaked front subframe will be taking its place. The AME sub will be made even better thanks to some bits and pieces from LG Motorsports including billet drop spindles, monoball bearings, race hubs, and brake ducts.

This is a huge leap for us and will require a pretty daunting amount of work to get right. With that said, grab some popcorn and follow along as we work though what should be the second to last reinvention of the One Lap Camaro…

You are a pioneer.. and then some.

Are you willing to share what the final frontier is for this? :stirthepot:

James,

Looking forward to watching it unfold. :cool:

Obviously a lot of subframe choices. What made you decide on the AME piece?

About 15 years ago I was talking to someone at NOS about (something) and they said the same thing... then they reminded me what happened to the pioneers... but thanks :)

Realistically - clean up and retirement. There is one more think that I can think of after this that would help but I just don't see it happening so once this is done the next step would be taking it back to it's original form, cleaning it up and... who knows.

You're right - lots of great choices and I weighed lots of options. The decision to try the AME subframe came from a couple of places:

1. The LS7 has a lot of packaging issues - both in its stock form and as you look at enhancements on the oil side. IF I were to do it again, and knowing what I know now, I would not use an LS7 for those reasons alone - there are better ways to go. BUT - thats what I have and that's what I have to work around and that itself culls the options.

2. Flexibility - AME was willing to make changes to their subframe for us and gave us "free reign" to modify it. The changes we made were "minor" and only time will tell if they will pan out but AME was cool with helping us out. This applies to both the subframe and the components we wanted to use with it.

3. Compatibility - which also probably includes "comfort". The AME subframe will work with a lot of the parts and manufacturers that we have been using with great satisfaction over the last few years so (a) I don't have to change from what I like, (b) I don't have to completely reinvent the wheel and (c) I can continue to support people and companies that have supported me.

All of that aside, the AME piece is really nice and Craig Morrison reached out to me while I was in his neck of the woods and we got to talking. I really appreciate great customer service and enjoy working with people who are interested in what we are doing. Timing and availability also played a part, as did some common projects that are going on more-or-less in parallel.

In fairness - there are four subframes that I seriously considered and wouldn't hesitate to recommend - SpeedTech, Scott Mock, DSE, and AME - all with their own pros and cons.

James,

Thanks for taking the time to provide some very useful info.

Good stuff. :thumbsup:

:king:

James,

Very cool update.

What was the final backspacing on the front wheels? Also, do you have any pics of under the hood with the new intake? I looked through the thread, but didn't see any...

So we kicked things off about a month ago…

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20O...to%20start.jpg

I came across an outstanding deal at Katech on a Street Attack LS7 that had a pretty short fuse so the first order of business was to sell the old engine. It was in great shape but starting to hint at its age under hard use so I posted it up on the forums at what I felt was a pretty fair price for what it was. It sold in about three days to a board member who was looking for something complete. It was sold complete including ECM and dry sump system so we were going to be starting fresh on a number of bases.

First things first – time to get the old one out…

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20O...0ready%201.jpg

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20O...0ready%202.jpg

The first hiccup came before we even had the old engine out… the shipping company had decided not to deliver the new engine on Friday as promised but were more than comfortable trying again on Monday for a small fee… not great when we’re under a bit of a time crunch. Mary was kind enough to hop in the truck and drive to the terminal for a “customer pickup”…

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20O...w%20engine.jpg

and came back with a really big box…

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20O...ngine%20vc.jpg

I’ve always liked redheads.

So with the new engine “in hand” it was all systems go for pulling the old engine out…

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20O...with%20new.jpg

which left a pretty big hole

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20O...gine%20out.jpg

Part two of the weekend was the start of the diet. We pulled the fiberglass headliner, the air conditioning unit, the quarter window regulators, some miscellaneous panels and the passenger seat. Every piece that came out was weighed and documented to track our progress. By the end of the first day we were down about 135 pounds. With the easy stuff done we moved on to the hard stuff…

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20O...%20dynamat.jpg

All of the dynamat that we can reach is coming out… started with the roof… headed to the trunk… and then the rest of the cockpit.

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20O...%20dynamat.jpg

This is about 25 pounds of dynamat… probably half of what we have coming out (give or take):

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20O...%20dynomat.jpg

Before moving on we got some of the ‘bad news’… the slave cylinder had some really weird wear and the pilot bearing was equally bad.

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20O...20ugliness.jpg

It all lined up to a more serious transmission problem than we anticipated.

James if you get a chance i would be keen to know you thoughts on road noise without the Dynamat.. its a great product but i am concerned about weight..

Glad to see you guys stepping it up another level Jim. :thumbsup:

James,

Great thread. :thumbsup:

Outsider looking in sees the a/c paying for the weight penalty by keeping you guys much less fatigued from the heat and therefore sharper behind the wheel.

Your thoughts?

I think that it does a great job and part of me regrets taking it out. If we weren't chasing tenths right now it would stay in.

Thanks - we're trying

It's been five years and I've never charged the system - I think we'll live :)

WOW James, this car has really done a 360. Looks like it's evolving into the car you should had built from day one, LOL. Can't wait to see more!

:king:

Now I how tough Mary's really is, and she strips DynaMat! :thumbsup:

I have to tell you - and Mary will agree - that stripping Dynamat is probably the worst job either of us have ever done on the car. After the first day we were cut up, worn out, and just plain beat. There is no easy way to do it and anything that can kill a pair of mechanics wear gloves in a day is destroying your hands...

After 36+ years in the flooring business I know exactly what you're talking about. Imagine if the DynaMat was stuck to plywood and the area was 20' x 35'. :D

It was a love hate thing when I installed it in my car, knowing what I know, I only did the floor and tunnel. Adding weight and knowing it may have to be removed some day kept me from getting too carried away.

Looking forward to the last hurrah for OLC. :thumbsup:

Dynamat and similar products do not really mask sound - they really are only for keeping a panel from resonating. In the case of well corrugated floor panels I'm not sure they are doing that much for us - they are much more necessary on door panels and such that have large un-braced flexible sheet metal. The trend in car audio is to use only a smattering of panel resonance (dynamat) type products usually no more than 25% coverage even on door panels (worst case).

to truly block noise requires complete coverage by a mass loaded barrier usually MLV. Good news, its easily removeable - bad news it weighs even more than dynamat.

Check out SoundDeadenerSolutions.com for the full skinny.

I think we in the muscle car community out of sheer desperation have probably been way over using dynamat. That being said I often go for pretty full coverage as well just because I will do anything to quiet my car down.

Of course dynamat will never tell you that. Their other products that are designed for noise transmission are good but again the enemy is weight.

Once you have stopped a panel from ringing, you don't need more dynamat unless you want the thermal protection, and there are better products for such.

What happened to that bad ass '69 Camaro that Rodger was building ? I thought that was the successor to this car ?

I have fully dynamatted my '92 Cadillac and my 2003 Dodge Ram and the difference was minimal, maybe 2db at cruise after a lot of work. Its surprising how little factory sound deadening there is on the panels and I think this is whay, most of them are pretty "corrugated". But, there is a lot of foam and deadening pads, and again this is becuase they absorb and deflect noise whcih dynamat type products do NOT.

Dynamat surely has a place. We won't have it in most areas but there are some places that we just cant remove it from - right or wrong. For the right car I would still use it throughout (selecting from different products)...

The '69 is a whole other deal. It's coming home soon and I'll work to get it done for next year.

James congrats on the progress! :thumbsup:

Question for you....you said in the update post you were going with Holly Dominator EFI and Davis TC. Curious why you didn't go Terminator? I believe it intergates TC but not sure it can handle your HP level?

James,

Ok, like you said, you haven't charged the a/c in 5 years.

Git 'er out. :D

Holley has a couple of great EFI options - the HP and the Dominator - that would've have worked for us (the Terminator is a 4150 TB style system). I chose the dominator for a couple of reasons... The Dominator allows for up to 4 tunes to be stored in the ECM which allows us some flexibility... the Dominator allows for DBW which might be desirable for advanced TC functions... Plus We might add a power adder and the Dominator is perfect for that...

Davis makes a TC system which is specifically designed to work with the Dominator and HP systems by Holley and is a straight plug and play solution.