:mad: Oops! The theory still has merit going forward. :thumbsup:

Lincoln didn't say it -- but I was thinking it!!!


:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

This is what I am talking about....Abe, Thomas Jefferson, and many others knew what not to do and what to do..

Simple principles that if followed, lead to success. If abandoned, they lead to ruin.

Found this article by accident ---- and thought it really kind of read along the lines we've been discussing here.... that it's really the REPUBLICAN party that doesn't even understand what it's own people are saying/feeling. Note the IMMIGRATION issue!


Republicans got crushed on the issues, too
By NBC's Mark Murray
Follow @mmurraypolitics

For all the talk about how Mitt Romney and the Republicans lost when it came to demographics, the turnout, and the tactics, the exit polls also show that they lost when it came to the issues.
For years, the GOP has branded itself as the party that supports low taxes (especially for the wealthy) and opposes abortion and gay marriage.
But according to the exit polls from last week’s presidential election, a combined 60% said that tax rates should increase either for everyone or for those making more than $250,000. Just 35% said the tax rates shouldn’t increase for anyone.
What’s more, 59% said that abortion should be legal in all or most cases.
And by a 49%-to-46% margin, voters said that their states should legally recognize same-sex marriage.
Even on comprehensive immigration reform -- a subject that some Republicans (like George W. Bush) once supported, but most no longer do -- 65% said most illegal immigrants should be offered a chance to apply for legal status. (And since the election, GOP senators like Lindsey Graham and John McCain are now signaling renewed support for comprehensive immigration reform.)
The one bright spot for Republicans on the issues: A majority of voters -- 51% -- indicated that the government is doing too many things better left to businesses and the individuals. By comparison, 43% said government should do more to solve problems.
That’s a reversal from 2008, when 51% said the government should do more and 43% said it is doing too much.

yeah, leave it to the Pubs to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. :lol:

Well... you're absolutely right!

I know that my 22 year old daughter voted for Obama as did my 24 year old niece -- both of which voted "single issue" items such as abortion. I argued like crazy to get them to approach voting with a "larger view"... but they couldn't get past that single issue. They both felt that the Republican party disrespected woman and thereby also disrespected the Supreme Court.
Both these young ladies were raised in Catholic schools! Which - in their view - was also losing them because of the failure to be drug into the 21st century. LOL


So -- their vote countered Gwen's and my vote... thus the almost 50/50 split of the popular vote.

The Republican party has lost the woman's vote/the latino vote/the african-american vote/the labor vote... What's left? Us old lilly white guys!:lol:

My 64 year old assistant felt Romney was similar to a cave man in his values and Kelli didn't like his major flip flopping on the issues.

Its hard for me to understand someone voting against Romney because of abortion. Do they really think he will somehow get Roe vs. Wade changed ? Is it just the tone ? Is Federal funding a litmus test for them ? I get that on many social issues from local liberals, and its always tough for me to reconcile because electing Pubs won't have any discernable effect on these things. I laughed out loud when the Dems declared "war on women" because it was such a blatant demagogic lie, but they pushed it all the way. Just like they also pushed the theme that Tea Parties were racist and violent, and despite zero evidence, that meme lived on and on. Even my mom (who is 80 and a doctinaire conventional wisdom liberal through and through) had a "no hate for me !" anti-tea party sticker on her car. Mom, I support the tea party 100% !

It just seems like regardless of the issues, the conservatives are fighting a constantly losing battle agains the media machine propaganda. Here we have been talking about the demise of the MM for almost 10 years and it seems like with the declining circulation and profts their voice is more influential than ever. Almost more important than what they talk about is what they don't want us to talk about. They still seem to set the tone of the day, and they are so lopsided. For exapmle, did you see any MM outlet discuss the complete lack of restrictions on the Obama credit card donation website ? Or about the web sites hosting companies connectinos to China ? It jsut seems like if that story came out about a PUb, it would be huge. Same with Benghazi (regardless of your current take). A week before the 2004 election NY Times pushed the Al Qaaqua (whatever) ammo dump story every day for a week, and after wards it completely died. Do you think if Bush was president that they would have had the same page 2 non-stories on Benghazi ?

I had hoped Romney would paint a little bigger picture of conservative vs liberal viewpoint. Sometimes when I talk to lib friends I feel like they have never even really heard the conservative argument except as caricature from the media.

Anyway, we can argue this much govt or that much govt until we're blue in the face, and it is totally irrelevant because the money has run out - argument will be over soon (although these things always take longer than you think, there being "a lot of ruin in a nation" and all that).

WE ARE $16T away from BEING BROKE !


Sorry, I started out (Ithought ) responding to a poitn but just ended up rambling instead.

The fact is, presidents themselves have the most capability to get something like RvW changed because they appoint the justices. Not to mention the fact that in numerous republican states, republicans are going out of their way to press the issue with things like forced ultrasounds (and not the abdomen kind) and what not.

It's not a huge leap to think that one of these laws would be challenged and it would end up in the courts lap and they have the capability to shift things.

Republicans come across as terrible stupid as it relates to women. Abortion is a small part of it. You have them hemming and hawing over equal pay for equal work, voting against it, or being completely non committal. You have them being completely stupid about rape, even after like 4 people were destroyed by it, they kept saying the same stupid stuff. It's one thing to believe that being raped and getting pregnant is a gift from god, it's another to say it.

Combine all of that together and it would sure seem like republicans want women to stay at home, barefoot and pregnant, and welp, that's not how most women under 50 see things.

I really thought this was an interesting article and the comments at the bottom made it the more interesting. The comments at the bottom where made by voters.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/49765349/comid/1#comments_top

Apparently having money and doing whatever you please now days is frowned upon.

Think of all the people employed to build and maintain a 90,000 sq ft house. All the labor and all the material suppliers. So what if you think it's too big and not what you want. I personally like my 1800sq ft house, and could not imagine walking around in a house that big.

Good discussion guys, but I miss the drama the thread had when Al reported someone just shot him. :(

How about a good intermission?

http://weeklystandard.com/blogs/abc-...ok_663264.html

Absolutely PERFECT!!!


That's hilarious!:lol:

I hope there are pictures in the book.:yes:

Agreed...time to take a little break, with the added bonus of some non-politically correct humor about the Brits thrown in. :lol:

:rofl:

Nice find Trey :unibrow:

I needed a good laugh.

While I find it funny, I have to wonder who's going to hold the media responsible for this. The answer...no one. Pretty unfair that they can get away with just about anything these days. IMO there should be serious repercussions for a mistake like this.

He might not have wrote them, but President Reagan said all of them...
 

(#20 is some good old-fashioned Cold War humor. :D)


1. A people free to choose will always choose peace.

2. Above all, we must realize that no arsenal, or no weapon in the arsenals of the world, is so formidable as the will and moral courage of free men and women. It is a weapon our adversaries in today’s world do not have.

3. Democracy is worth dying for, because it’s the most deeply honorable form of government ever devised by man.

4. Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn’t pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same.

5. How do you tell a communist? Well, it’s someone who reads Marx and Lenin. And how do you tell an anti-Communist? It’s someone who understands Marx and Lenin.

6. Information is the oxygen of the modern age. It seeps through the walls topped by barbed wire, it wafts across the electrified borders.

7. It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first.

8. We must reject the idea that every time a law’s broken, society is guilty rather than the lawbreaker. It is time to restore the American precept that each individual is accountable for his actions.

9. I call upon the scientific community in our country, those who gave us nuclear weapons, to turn their great talents now to the cause of mankind and world peace: to give us the means of rendering these nuclear weapons impotent and obsolete.

10. There is no limit to what a man can do or where he can go if he doesn’t mind who gets the credit.

11. We in government should learn to look at our country with the eyes of the entrepreneur, seeing possibilities where others see only problems.

12. A leader, once convinced a particular course of action is the right one, must have the determination to stick with it and be undaunted when the going gets rough.

13. In America, our origins matter less than our destination, and that is what democracy is all about.

14. The work of volunteer groups through out our country represents the very heart and soul of America. They have helped make this the most compassionate, generous, and humane society that ever existed on the face of this earth.

15. The men of Normandy had faith that what they were doing was right, faith that they fought for all humanity, faith that a just God would grant them mercy on this beachhead or the next. It was the deep knowledge — and pray God we have not lost it — that there is a profound moral difference between the use of force for liberation and the use of force for conquest.

16. The government’s view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.

17. Coercion, after all, merely captures man. Freedom captivates him.

18. The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, ‘I’m from the government and I’m here to help.’

19. I have left orders to be awakened at any time in case of national emergency, even if I’m in a cabinet meeting.

20. My fellow Americans, I am pleased to tell you I just signed legislation which outlaws Russia forever. The bombing begins in five minutes. [Said during a radio microphone test in 1984]

So you now want the government holding media accountable? You can't simultaneously say government should get out of our lives and be tiny, and then demand they do everything.

While they could fine the station, real accountability for the media is from the consumers of it, if everyone stopped watching that station over this, then changes would occur.

The reality is one poor guy made a mistake, and I cannot imagine he was getting high fives from management about it. He'll be lucky to keep his job so to him at least, the repercussions will be pretty serious.

The reality is , we are one station away from being all Liberal media..All the major networks and most of the cable...

Anyone who cannot see that is naive, or just refuses to acknowledge the truth..

I don't believe Government should get invovled. If the media wants to be that way, well OK by me. I know better.


Society is brainwashed..I for one have stopped worrying about it... I have made my plan, and if others haven't and believe what they are being fed, they are in for a rough road..

Okay so I have read 11 pages so far.

All I can say is he is from Chicago so he is a crooked as they come.

I would say more but I can't f-n stand the guy and his wife !!!

You might wanna re-read the post Real. Nowhere did Curtis say he wanted the government to hold media accountable.

But technically - the FCC could impose a fine on the affiliate if they wanted to, they have that power. just saying ...

I agree he'll be lucky to keep his job - most companies will not tolerate that kinda stuff even if it doesn't place their company/license in jeopardy. And IMO - that's exactly how that should work !

:thumbsup:

Jim

The real reality of it is the ratings probably shot through the roof and he's secretly being high fived and back slapped. The advertisers will act appalled until they see the hits on the station website looking for the faux pas...


In europe -- this would be considered everyday TV. They're not nearly so serious.

Well -- I take back my post stating that "I HOPED" Obama was smart enough to realize that 50% of Americans DID NOT support him -- and maybe move to a middle ground course of governing. I - sadly - was very hopeful... but not anymore. The man just doesn't get it. Now stating that he has a mandate!?!? Really?? I call barely winning, anything but a mandate.


Today ----


President Barack Obama claimed a broad mandate for his vision on taxes at his first news conference since being re-elected, demanding that his negotiations with Congress yield a specific plan that results in a higher tax burden for the wealthiest Americans.
Speaking Wednesday at the White House, the president said that his recently-concluded campaign against Republican nominee Mitt Romney sent a "very clear message" as to which tax plan Americans prefer. Citing his decisive victory last Tuesday, Obama vowed to stand firm on asking the wealthy to shoulder a greater share of the tax burden.

MSNBC this morning was talking about how he wants to get rid of the ability to right off your mortgage interest on your taxes on a investment property or a 2nd home. funny how a few weeks changed his mind

Wish I could have been in the room today for the business leaders meeting with the President. Hope some of that discussion gets printed somewhere without getting twisted by the left or right...

Just give me facts without all the spin .... plz ! :soapbox:

Jim

He's not a capitalist. He's also anti-American, IMO. Sad to say but, taxes are going up for everyone, probably more so for the rich. Gas/utility prices are going up and food prices are going up. I pray that I am wrong. My gut tells me this is what's coming down the pike. As if prices weren't high already. Wait till Obozo's HELLCARE kicks in full effect in 2014. (The debt outweighing the GDP is a VERY BAD SIGN. I get a kick out of the people that say it can't happen here. Really?!?!:rolleyes: China wants their money. And there's a ton of fake money out there. They want our land is what they want. Do a google search for China and taking America land. You'll be shocked and sickened.)
I don't believe in making the rich pay more or "their fair share". That's liberal diarrhea of the mouth if you ask me. If the rich don't spend money, who creates the jobs or keeps the economy moving? The lower class and middle class have no money to "spend", unless it's for food and bills. Seems like there's more people that pay taxes than those who don't. The number of welfare recipients went up with the imposter in chief as well. The bloodsuckers want more and more. Little do they know that they are giving into the communism that the imposter in chief wants.
I'll leave it at that, as I tend to get a lil' heated when talking politics. lol:D
GREAT THREAD by the way.

What's he going to do when the wealthy aren't or they pack their bags?

As is there isn't enough of them wealthies to fill the hole dug under his watch.

Very true. He isn't done with making the national debt even larger. SCARY.

We knew this is the man he is..We hoped for the best and hoped he would lead from the middle. I knew he wouldn't...He said so as a Senator what he would do. And now in a second term ? Watch out

But he said exactly what he would do back in 2007...So he is doing what he said he would do..For those that voted for him and expected something different ? Boy you better have a good plan, because he will crush both the democrats and the republicans in the middle class...

His speech today should send chills up your spine....He will fundamentally change America....He said he would...And it won't be in a good way..

all that said we should all pay the same rate lets say 25% ??

I'd like to see this archaic and punishing 'income tax', and all other taxes get kicked to the curb in favor of The Fair Tax.

23% National sales tax on most new goods, no more taxes on labor, property, investments, cell phones, electric bills, and no more 50,000 plus page tax code.

Increasing income tax rates on high earners will only entice them to shelter their earnings (or more of their earnings), increasing CG rates will only decrease the amount of realized gains and investment activity, all of which blows big holes in the amount of revenue to the Treasury. Not to mention new start-ups won't be able to start up due to the lack of Angel Investors and necessary capital which equals anemic job growth and zero economic expansion.

When that happens-a huge hole in revenue to the Treasury- the 'middle class' (how I despise that phrase) will really get it broke off up in 'em.

Some people may not like this, however I too am in favor of the FAIR tax. The "Good Book" says to tythe 10% of your earnings. Not 10% up to $100,000 then 8%. Taxes should work the same way. Personally (some may not agree) but if you need a reduced tax rate to incentivize you to make more money, then....well then you should rethink your position. I also think it is wrong to make wealthy or poor pay more taxes than the other. It all should be an even % across the board.
That's my take.

can you show me the tax table that gets lower as income goes up?

Steve Forbes' FLAT TAX is where it is at. Simple and brings it all home. Equality. No entitlements. :thumbsup:

It's a big F'in mess that will be sorted out about the same time we have middle east peace. End thread.

:thumbsup:

and the Puzzle piece's start falling
 

John Metz, Denny's Franchisee And Hurricane Grill & Wings Owner, Imposes Surcharge For Obamacare

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/1...6pLid%3D234886


While some business owners threaten to cut workers' hours to avoid paying for their health care, a West Palm Beach, Fla., restaurant owner is going even further. John Metz said he will add a 5 percent surcharge to customers' bills to offset what he said are the increased costs of Obamacare, along with reducing his employees' hours.

"If I leave the prices the same, but say on the menu that there is a 5 percent surcharge for Obamacare, customers have two choices. They can either pay it and tip 15 or 20 percent, or if they really feel so inclined, they can reduce the amount of tip they give to the server, who is the primary beneficiary of Obamacare," Metz told The Huffington Post. "Although it may sound terrible that I'm doing this, it's the only alternative. I've got to pass the cost on to the consumer."

Metz is the franchisor of Hurricane Grill & Wings, which has 48 locations, five of which are corporate owned, and president and owner of RREMC Restaurants, which runs approximately 40 Denny's and several Dairy Queen locations. He planned to use the 5 percent surcharge tactic in all his restaurants starting in January 2014, when Obamacare is fully implemented.

Do you work at one of John Metz's restaurants? The Huffington Post wants to hear from you. Please email [email protected] and [email protected].
As the first anti-Obamacare executive to bring up the surcharge option, Metz is "going out on a limb," Paul Fronstin, director of the health research program at the Employee Benefit Research Institute in Washington, told The Huffington Post. Still, surcharges have precedent. Fronstin pointed out that the airline industry charges fliers a 9/11 security fee.

Still, consumers have many more restaurant options than airline choices, and Fronstin speculated that Metz's move is more about politics than prices. Fronstin said that Metz and business owners, like coal company owner Robert Murray, who are blaming their extreme actions on Obamacare or on President Barack Obama himself may in fact be motivated by their own troubled business finances or political leanings.

"When you're blaming it on one thing and it's due to something else, you're basically making a political statement," Fronstin said. "And if you do something for political reasons, it can backfire, because someone else has the opportunity to come in and take the business away."

Metz said he will hold meetings at all his restaurants starting in December to discuss the surcharge and to tell employees "that because of Obamacare, we are going to be cutting front-of-the-house employees to under 30 hours, effective immediately."


Metz said he hopes the post-election meetings will inspire employees rather than alienate them. "What we're going to ask them to do is to speak to their elected officials, to try to convey what this means in terms of their jobs and their livelihoods," Metz said.

Metz said he understands the problems that will create not just for his scheduling but for his employees. "I think it's a terrible thing. It's ridiculous that the maximum hours we can give people is 28 hours a week instead of 40," Metz said. "It's going to force my employees to go out and get a second job."

Despite the one-two hit his employees might take with possibly fewer hours and lower tips, Metz said he is not anti-insurance. His current coverage for full-time employees costs him $5,000 to $6,000 annually, he said. "Obviously, I'd love to cover all our employees under that insurance," he said, "But to pay $5,000 per employee would cost us $175,000 per restaurant, and unfortunately, most of our restaurants don't make $175,000 a year. I can't afford it."

Currently, the law states that employers with more than 50 full-time equivalent employees will be charged a penalty for any employees over 30 full-time employees that they don't cover. Several employers have cited that provision -- including Darden Restaurants, Papa John's, Apple-Metro and Jimmy John's -- in announcing plans to skirt the law by cutting employees' hours to make them part time.

Metz said he will take the extra step of adding a surcharge because he believes the law will eventually expand to include penalties for not covering full-time equivalent employees. If he has to pay a penalty for his average 35 full-time equivalent employes per restaurant, he said it would cost him $75,000 per location. In that case, he said raising prices wouldn't be an option, since he'd have to raise prices about 25 percent to cover the costs of Obamacare, which would be "catastrophic" for his business.

A November Kaiser Health Tracking Poll found that about 43 percent of the population has a favorable opinion of Obamacare, while 39 percent has an unfavorable opinion. "Instead of indirectly charging customers by raising prices, he is directly charging and making a political statement," Fronstin said, "Potentially 43 percent of this person's customers may find the explicit charge a turnoff, and vote with their feet and their money and choose not to eat there."

Metz said he's risking the backlash to spread a message. "We're trying to get more restaurant operators rallied around the concept of adding a 5 percent surcharge to their bill to cover the costs of Obamacare as opposed to raising prices," he said.

AMEN !!!

I've been curious how that works. Surely they've missed a footnote or fine print section that states that the Insurance prices will be reduced to offset the employers costs. :(