I have a hamburgers street / strip
7 quart

You have to run the muscle bar as well ... I'm ordering the strong arms , tru turn and the spindles ....... If i don't have to
Spend any more money it would be great lol

Tru turn will not work with a SBC and Hooker super comps. Your gonna need a swept back primary design.
We are doing a 71 and we fit a 18x 10 6.750 back space.

So it will not work with a sbc or just the hooker headers ? What headers will work ?

Do you have a build link for that car ?

Champ Road race 8 quart pan and Dynatech 1 3/4-1 7/8 stepped headers is what im running on my 72 Nova with the Tru Turn.

What does the stepped headers do differently than the hooker supercomps . Also can you send me some pictures of your car to [email protected]

not yet, still in progress.


here are a few pictures.

What engine is in there ? Car looks amazing

Same set up on my 67 Camaro.

Im no longer at the shop(RideTech) but most...maybe all of the parts used on the 48 hour camaro LS swap are list here that may help.


I used real simple parts on my own car
TALL 1969 350 factory engine mounts
Prothane engine plate and mount kit #7-519
Moroso Pan #20140 and the correct pick up
Sanderson Headers #LS10

but I'm not in the LS swap business, I just a hot rodder, maybe we should ask someone that is in the LS swap business to do it, like Holley, BRPhotrods, Muscle rods or so on

..... Hey!!??

Is that it??

I just read all those papges for nothing??

I was searching for ideas on fitting some C6 ZR1 wheels on my 69 and tought about the Tru Turn for the front... This thread popped up and sounded like it needed to be read, so i did... But now, should i buy the kit or not??

I want to keep the original motor for the time beeing so it looks like it fits with that right?

Im wanting to run a 19x10 front w/ 285. And 19x12 w/345's.

Whats the best set up?

(I would not mind notching the frame at some point and doing fiberglass inner fenders.... I also have a set of glass fenders i kept from another project but that would be stretching it i think, my car is 100% original and stock... And squaky clean too!!!)

Lead

A small block will work with the tru turn. Use dynatech muscle maxx headers. Great quality, thick flange and swept back to clear the linkage

as far as whether or not to buy the system.... If you really want a big tire to fit and the car to be 100% functional, get a new subframe. if you are willing to make some sacrifices, higher spring rate, losing turn radius, occasional fender rubs, then the system will probably work.

ultimately, i decided to rehoop my wheel and put a 245 tire on the front. if i had it to do over again, i would do something different than the tru turn.

Call Marcus at SC&C and he will tell you everything you need to know and more for what you want. :thumbsup:

From memory, I think a 69 has about 1/2" to 3/4" more room than a 67 or 68 Camaro. BUT a 69 fender lip is lower because it isn't round. Generally, it seems 69 owners have an easier time fitting tires than 67/68 owners do.

Stove,

Sorry you are having issues. I 100% agree, the system is not streetable with 275 or even 265 tires. I actually sold my entire setup and bought a dse subframe. The 6.25 backspace will work with their subframe. no need to rehoop or buy new tires.

I appreciate the effort ridetech put into this thread, but I will reiterate my warning to others. Don't buy this system and expect to maintain driveability. You will lose turning radius and you will have rubbing. It just doesn't work without major surgery. If nothing else, call a reputable builder who has done this and find out what is actually involved with making this work and what compromises have to be made (turning radius). You will figure out pretty quickly that you are better off buying a speedtech, AME, or DSE subframe. Price will end up being about the same and you will get full functionality.

This setup is a compromise setup at best. I could not recommend it as a realistic way to put 275s on a car.

You are absolutely and completely correct. The True Turn system will not work on an early Camaro with a 6.25 backspace wheel.
Unless you use a 1/2" wheel spacer, or have a brake system that adds 1/2" per side to the track width...or downsize your wheel/tire package to an 18x8.5 w a 245 tire.
A 6.25" bs wheel WILL resolve any remaining outer fender clearance issues though because , as stated, you won't be able to turn the wheels (much).
As a reference (again), every piece of literature we have ever created indicates a 5.75 backspace wheel to be appropriate.
Thankfully 1723 (and counting) Tru Turn customers have selected the correct backspace wheel. They do not make a lot of noise here because they are busy driving their hotrods.

Since wheel/tire fitment is a huge deal...and somewhat misunderstood...and requires some real work to get right, I have listed SOME of the items that affect your outcome:

1. Tire size
2. Tire brand (yes, dimensions vary by manufacturer)
3. Tire age (have you already worn some shoulder off of them?)
4. Wheel width
5. Wheel backspace
6. Spindle selection
7. Brake selection
8. Control arm configuration
9. Alignment settings
10. Ride height
11. Height of body bushings
12. Fender alignment and/or previous damage
13. Dimensional tolerance of reproduction fenders
14. Steering box ratio (how far will your box swing the steering linkage
15. Spring rate/swaybar rste/shock settings (determines how much roll your car may have)
16. Ability of customer to tolerate "a little rub here and there"

i could go on.

This is why fitting the absolute largest tire possible on your car is an exponential amount of work...on everyones part.

Please tell me how I am supposed to push the tire out another 1/2", Brett? Physically, 5.75" back space won't work on my car. It appears Stove is having rubbing and turn radius issues as well. I think people need to realize that there are limitations and compromises with this setup. For what I spent on this car, the last thing i want to hear is rubbing and grinding of tires as I make a 4 point U-turn. Maybe others are willing to live with that.

I know you are probably frustrated with me for starting this thread, but ultimately I was looking for help and trying to give others some real world feed back on how the setup was working for me. You keep saying that every car is different, and I appreciate that but in reality there are only so many variables. one of the most important is track width. You should be able to tell us what track width your 5.75" BS is based on(58" ? 59? 60? ). Once we know that, intelligent people can then add/subtract the hub dimensions and order their wheels accordingly. Another variable that would be helpful is suggested ride height (using baseline 275/XX tire).

Finally, I am not the only one having issues here. If this setup is only for people that race and autocross, fine. Bad on me for expecting it to work on a driver without what I consider to be significant compromises. In the interest of helping others - Maybe some of the other 1721 customers would be willing to come on here and tell us how they drive their car (driver/autocross/road race), how the setup is working for them in the real world, and what if any modifications they had to make to get everything working to their satisfaction.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...202_154148.jpg

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...20view%202.jpg

final final note - I'll admit that I am not perfect. I could have spent more time dialing in alignment or rolled and cut my inner fender, and even though the system didn't work for me and it cost me money and frustration I do appreciate the efforts Ridetech made earlier in the thread to help resolve my issues. Despite the occasional condescending tone towards me, I don't think that Ridetech is a bad company to deal with or makes a bad product. It just didn't work for me and others should consider more than the marketing hype before investing $4,000 into this setup. There will be compromises and its not a plug and play system, and to their credit, Ridetech never said it was.

I remember not that long ago I was watching a video of Mark Stielow thrashing Hellfire around a road course and you know what I heard...a tire rub a fender on certain bumps... Several times in fact. I guess it happens to the best of us.

I didn't laugh or look down at him when I heard that, I nodded approvingly... :) Because I knew he was trying to get everything he could out of the setup and was apparently willing to deal with a rub here or there as a compromise.

IMO, if you are the type of owner or driver that doesn't want to deal with that, put a smaller tire on the car. Or...spend a WHOLE bunch more money on an aftermarket sub frame that will let you run that tire without it rubbing...maybe.

Rubbing while busting nuts around the race track is different than rubbing while pulling up a drive way into a gas station or burger joint. Mark doesn't seem like a compromise sort of guy, what suspension is he using on the front of his car?

If the tru-turn is for race cars that you trailer to the autocross, so be it. My expectation was that it was going to be 95% usable. For what it costs to buy a full ridetech suspension/steering box/ and then to roll the fenders and cut up the inners - you aren't too far away from what it costs for a full subframe designed for 275 tires.

What did you end up with Camber #'s on your alignment?

I started here

Camber -0.48

Caster +3.77

Toe in 0.03"

Then I took some measurements and added shims to get another degree of camber. 1 degree of camber is equal to roughly 0.5" of tire movement at the top. The other issue i had when trying to figure this out was turning radius. Turning radius can be determined by wheel base/tan X, where X equals the max angle the tire can turn from centerline. So a stock chevy camaro can turn roughly 29 degrees which equates a radius of 18.7' or 37.4 feet curb to curb.

With the tru turn i estimated i was going to be somewhere between 22- 24 degrees best case scenario, which is 44 feet curb to curb. Maybe I could live with that if i felt comfortable the tire wasn't going to live on the fender lip.

[IMG]FB_IMG_1459385872408.jpg[/IMG]

I guess they fit. Just for the record...all GM metal. Is it a tight fit... sure. The 1969 Camaro is much harder to fit the 275s if you want to run the car low. We used an 18x9.5 wheel with a 5.75 bs. We rounded the corner of the sway bar end to eliminate the rub. Still way cheaper then a Sub Frame.

Ridetech front suspension complete $3150. Uses parts to fit a Camaro headers, brakes steering connection and ect.

Aftermarket Sub Frame $7500 plus headers, engine mounts, brakes ect now we are north of $10000.

What (if anything) did you have to do to the inner fender lip on the 69 to get the 275s to fit? I have the same set up on my 69 firebird, but have 6" backspacing. I am waiting to a spanner wrench from Josh so I can get the front of my car out of the weeds. I would say that my car is currently nearly 2" lower in the front than the 69 pictured. I moved it from 1 garage stall to another last night and the tires rub when I get near full lock, but I think most of that will be taken care of when the front is raised up to ride height and camber is set to around 2 degrees (the car will see a lot of track time).

Beautiful car. What is the ride height in the front?

I do not know the measurements for ride height. We did zero modifying on the sheet metal.

When you say "I guess it fits" What do you mean?

That it works on a car that is street driven on a regular basis with no issues.

My rim/tire might just kiss the muscle bar end at full lock. I might have to round off the front corner of the bar end for added piece of mind. The back of tire also just kisses the sub at full lock. I am running 6" BS, so that might contribute to that a little bit. There is a short section of each inner fender lip that might need some massaging, but I won't know for sure until I get my coil overs adjusted for ride height.

where do you live? if you are in dallas i would be glad to look at it for you

Thank you for the offer Randy, but I sold the subframe with the ridetech setup. I gave up on making it work and considered buying rehoops for the front wheels, but somebody bought the subframe so i went ahead and bought a DSE subframe. The DSE is workable with my existing backspacing.

you will love it. I love mine

OK
23 pages later and I am glad I have not ordered my ridetech system yet. Quick question about the set up for my 69 Firebird Conv. First I am not interested in autocross just want good handling on the road and adjustability in ride height. I am going LS 480 or 535 and automatic, while I want to run a larger front tire, I really do not care to have bragging rites for stuffing in the largest I can. Will this system work for fairly easy for a guy with my goals. I do not want to create a nightmare when buying parts etc.
Thanks

I have 275's with a stock sub and 6" BS wheels and I have a fingers width between the tire and the fender on both sides at full lock. I also went through a lot of measuring to get my sub squared up in my 69 Firebird. Start at post #75.
http://www.pro-touring.com/threads/1...ar-build/page4

Just something to check into, but in the case of my '69 Firebird, the original steering linkage is different than the camaro. The original Pontiac centerlink contains the joints, not the idler or pitman arms. If this is the same on yours, you will need to also buy a camaro centerlink, pitman arm, and idler arm in addition to the tru-turn.

If I remember right, there is no way the Firebird centerlink will work with the TruTurn center. I figured that out and went with the '69 Camaro link.

yup, you figure that out in a hurry. I am not knocking the tru turn because its a simple conversion and it works very well. I was just informing a potential buyer that there will be a little extra cost. This should be no surprise to us Pontiac fans. lol A small price to pay for being a little different! :D

Did you ever get the tru-turn on with wheels and tires? I would agree the parts were nice and everything bolted up fine, but if you never really had it in with wheels and tires and drove the car, how do you know it works "very well?"

No offense intended by the way. Just curious about the full extent of your tru-turn experience.

My saying it works very well was pertaining to the fact I had the kit installed on my car and everything was as advertised. The bump steer was within .03" and the outer tie rod cleared my rim(18" w/ 4.75" bs). I did not end up using it in the end because the centerlink bracket hit my oil pan and there was interference with one of the header primary tubes and the tie rod. These are all attributed to the Pontiac engine that is offset from chassis centerline by one inch. I didn't want to sound like I am bashing this product as in some previous posts. I also had a wildwood hub on the front and the added .38 hub offset caused my wheel to hit the back of the inner wheel well. This was the point I went to plan "z". lol

When I first read this thread I thought about chiming in and didn't. I wanted to state to other members that we should all be grateful for the countless aftermarket companies trying to fill our needs. Most of us here are trying to fit the biggest baddest parts into places never originally intended. It truly is amazing that one can buy a part that generally will fit within fractions of an inch into a car that is 40+ years old. I have owned my car for 27+ years now, and when I first owned it, you couldn't buy hardly anything.

Anyways, in a nutshell, with a Pontiac motor- no go. I hopes this helps someone.